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Are women pursuiters faster than Pro Tour sprinters?

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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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How seriously was Tyler taking it? How hard does a Pro Tour sprinter train for a track omnium? How hard does Sarah Hammer train for a track omnium? Who would win if it was a flying 300 instead of 200?

Far too many variables to say. Anybody can pull out statistics from one solitary event and say what they want to say because of it.

For example, Valery Kobzarenko finished the Tour of California in less time than George Hincapie. Ergo, Valery Kobzarenko is a better rider than George Hincapie.
 
roundabout

roundabout

Jun 7, 2010
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One has to be pretty slow to be constantly losing to a guy who has test results unworthy of ProTour rider. :p ;)
 
oldcrank

oldcrank

Jul 24, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
For example, Valery Kobzarenko finished the Tour of California in less time than George Hincapie. Ergo, Valery Kobzarenko is a better rider than George Hincapie.
Click to expand...
Valery Kobzarenko isn't a girl.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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oldcrank said:
Valery Kobzarenko isn't a girl.
Click to expand...

No, but the point is that a one-off statistic doesn't show enough evidence, otherwise you could genuinely believe Kobzarenko to be better than Hincapie.

For another example, Emma Pooley won the Flèche Wallonne. Many of the male riders who trailed in after the victory was already lost will have soft-pedalled up the Mur, slower than Emma. Does that mean that if they went full bore, Emma would still win? We just don't know - many of them are not elite climbers, whereas amongst the women, she is. Does Sarah Hammer do the omnium much? Does Tyler Farrar do it much? Was one or the other fighting for a win? Far too many variables to take just the one result and say it's indicative of anything.
 
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LastRide

Aug 17, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
How seriously was Tyler taking it? How hard does a Pro Tour sprinter train for a track omnium? How hard does Sarah Hammer train for a track omnium? Who would win if it was a flying 300 instead of 200?

Far too many variables to say. Anybody can pull out statistics from one solitary event and say what they want to say because of it.

For example, Valery Kobzarenko finished the Tour of California in less time than George Hincapie. Ergo, Valery Kobzarenko is a better rider than George Hincapie.
Click to expand...

FFS i dont think the OP is taking the result that seriously..
 
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brianf7

Aug 4, 2009
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Tell me about it bloody women giving us old Bug!!S a hard time. They know everything on how to ride a race . If some could peddal as fast as they can talk they would be fast very fast but faster than a pro tour sprinter who had to hang on to a wheel at 80-90kmh for the last 5 km of a race and then find something left to sprint with I dont think so .I know a few very fast women but they are no match for any top male sprinter on the bike or off.
 
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simo1733

Jun 15, 2010
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oldcrank said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/saputo-burnaby-4-im3/day-4/results
Women's Omnium Flying 200: 2nd: Sarah Hammer 12.277 seconds
Men's Omnium Flying 200:......13th: Tyler Farrar........12.287 seconds
Click to expand...

I think we had a similar discussion regarding Emma Pooley being the best British road racer.After that battering I am keeping out of it.
Interesting to compare roadies to the best men track sprinters. I think they go below 11 secs. Cav or Leigh Howard would be faster than Farrar though.
 
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erik saunders

Apr 30, 2010
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The answer is: YES. in the flying 200.

This is not a statistic. This is a FACT.

You're all on crack to try to debate it. The times don't lie.

I will go one further and assure you that Jennie Reed would mop the track with any pro tour sprinter in a head to head on the velodrome in a match sprint.

One MORE... Graves could torch any Pro tour sprinter in a standing 200 on pavement.

Women AND mountainbikers are faster than your beloved heroes.
 
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cyclingrookie

Nov 5, 2009
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simo1733 said:
I think we had a similar discussion regarding Emma Pooley being the best British road racer.After that battering I am keeping out of it.
Interesting to compare roadies to the best men track sprinters. I think they go below 11 secs. Cav or Leigh Howard would be faster than Farrar though.
Click to expand...

That comparison wouldn't be very interesting since the best sprinters rides under 10. No roadie would stand a chance.
Not sure about Cavs peak power, but i'm guessing about 1600w. The sprinters puts out over 2000w (think i've seen somewhere that Jamie Staff puts out 2400w).
All road sprinters who rides the track rides endurance events because they are good at holding high pace over a long time.
 
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simo1733

Jun 15, 2010
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erik saunders said:
The answer is: YES. in the flying 200.

This is not a statistic. This is a FACT.

You're all on crack to try to debate it. The times don't lie.

I will go one further and assure you that Jennie Reed would mop the track with any pro tour sprinter in a head to head on the velodrome in a match sprint.

One MORE... Graves could torch any Pro tour sprinter in a standing 200 on pavement.

Women AND mountainbikers are faster than your beloved heroes.
Click to expand...

Of course Graves can beat roadies better to test him against track sprinters he could be good like Shanaze Read and Jamie Staff
 
S

simo1733

Jun 15, 2010
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cyclingrookie said:
That comparison wouldn't be very interesting since the best sprinters rides under 10. No roadie would stand a chance.
Not sure about Cavs peak power, but i'm guessing about 1600w. The sprinters puts out over 2000w (think i've seen somewhere that Jamie Staff puts out 2400w).
All road sprinters who rides the track rides endurance events because they are good at holding high pace over a long time.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting.I know the track spriters are quicker but how much.
 
D

Dutchsmurf

Jul 5, 2010
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erik saunders said:
Women AND mountainbikers are faster than your beloved heroes.
Click to expand...

In their own discipline (or something more suited for their strength) they indeed are. Does that matter tho? Or better yet, wouldn't it be strange if they weren't faster? If pro tour riders can do a fast standing 200 on pavement or flying 200, they are most likely training wrong. Bolt happens to be very fast over 200m too, yet I don't see him winning a sprint after 10km.
 
forty four

forty four

Jul 6, 2009
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brianf7 said:
Tell me about it bloody women giving us old Bug!!S a hard time. They know everything on how to ride a race . If some could peddal as fast as they can talk they would be fast very fast but faster than a pro tour sprinter who had to hang on to a wheel at 80-90kmh for the last 5 km of a race and then find something left to sprint with I dont think so .I know a few very fast women but they are no match for any top male sprinter on the bike or off.
Click to expand...

the best male sprinter will easily crush the best women sprinter it is a matter of genetics hormones skeletal muscle and ratios of type 1 and type 2 muscle tissue. silly thread you have to compare specialists to specialists sprinters to sprinters etc...
 
M

Mellow Velo

Mar 11, 2009
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cyclingrookie said:
That comparison wouldn't be very interesting since the best sprinters rides under 10. No roadie would stand a chance.
Not sure about Cavs peak power, but i'm guessing about 1600w. The sprinters puts out over 2000w (think i've seen somewhere that Jamie Staff puts out 2400w).
Click to expand...

Indeed.
The very best men dip just under 10 seconds on the rolling 200, while the very best women just break the 11 second barrier.
Sarah Hammer's time is a second slower than a top female sprinter specialist.

Your guess on Cav's output is more or less spot on. Greipel et al, about the same.
The benchmark figure would be around 1500W. The same benchmark figure would be applicable for a good female trackie.
As you point out, men tend to achieve the low 2000s.
 
Michielveedeebee

Michielveedeebee

Feb 25, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
Indeed.
The very best men dip just under 10 seconds on the rolling 200, while the very best women just break the 11 second barrier.
Sarah Hammer's time is a second slower than a top female sprinter specialist.

Your guess on Cav's output is more or less spot on. Greipel et al, about the same.
The benchmark figure would be around 1500W. The same benchmark figure would be applicable for a good female trackie.
As you point out, men tend to achieve the low 2000s.
Click to expand...

Boonen does over 2000 in a sprint(it's in his latest book) I know Cav goes faster with less watts because of his 'aeroness'
 
F

fatandfast

Jul 14, 2009
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erik saunders said:
The answer is: YES. in the flying 200.

This is not a statistic. This is a FACT.

You're all on crack to try to debate it. The times don't lie.

I will go one further and assure you that Jennie Reed would mop the track with any pro tour sprinter in a head to head on the velodrome in a match sprint.

One MORE... Graves could torch any Pro tour sprinter in a standing 200 on pavement.

Women AND mountainbikers are faster than your beloved heroes.
Click to expand...

Mens standing kilos,1k,3k pursuits,match sprint,scratch race,point race speeds are higher on average than most womens events. In cattle call events that include men and women at the start line at the same time..a woman has not finsished in front of any man for the overall at any event I have been to in 14 years..both on and off pavement. In all the years I have raced the track I have never seen a woman win the omnium at any velodrome. The ITT times in every cat from 10 years old and up are faster for boys than girls. Women by the rules are allowed to race in almost all mens races w the exception of the age graded,pro,national selection races when they do they don't win..not my opinion. I have seen very small hooks and chops in women's races that I have officiated..when the offending rider can't be whistled out it turns into an OMG moment. God help an official that witnessed a Renshaw headbut in a ladies race. Any body involved would leave or lock themselves in a trailer until all the women racers went home rather than discuss aggressive racing..your man vs women comparsion omits the aggressive style that is almost void in ladie's racing
 
M

Mellow Velo

Mar 11, 2009
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Michielveedeebee said:
Boonen does over 2000 in a sprint(it's in his latest book) I know Cav goes faster with less watts because of his 'aeroness'
Click to expand...

I suspect there's a bit of artistic licence being employed by Mr B, since it's his book.

Anyhow, for those who like lots of numbers and mind bending graphs, there is a fine example here:
http://www.srm.de/index.php?option=...landtour&catid=106:strasse&Itemid=214&lang=it

Mr Greipel's (and Mr Foerster's) last few km during a 2008 TOG stage.

(and goes to show we are trying to compare apples with pears again)
 
E

erik saunders

Apr 30, 2010
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simo1733 said:
Of course Graves can beat roadies better to test him against track sprinters he could be good like Shanaze Read and Jamie Staff
Click to expand...
so right... Lopes put the wood to Nothstien in a standing 200 when he was the world champ back in the day... ON HIS BMX BIKE... no lie...

no one area of bike racing has it all cornered up when it comes to pure physical ability...

you are pretty much just adding different skills and experience to that raw ability when you are looking at the specialists...

when skill and experience are at play (always) its not a given that a man will prevail in a physical contest over a woman...

no doubt that a top woman track racer is going to have a million times the skill and experience to pull off a flawless flying 200... a pro road racer is going to make a mess of it... and have a ****tier time...

like this:

Women's Omnium Flying 200: 2nd: Sarah Hammer 12.277 seconds
Men's Omnium Flying 200:......13th: Tyler Farrar........12.287 seconds
 
M

Mambo95

Jul 2, 2009
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erik saunders said:
I will go one further and assure you that Jennie Reed would mop the track with any pro tour sprinter in a head to head on the velodrome in a match sprint.
Click to expand...

What, even Theo Bos?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Put the sprint at the end of 200km and see how it pans out...

Different settings, training, and physiological development over years would naturally lead to results like this. If you are going to match one against the other to determine who is faster, you need to then to hold the competition on both people's home turf. I think you would find that the thousands of a second difference in a flying 200m would turn in to over an hour's difference the other way in a long stage or classic.

Apples, meet oranges, oranges, meet apples.
 
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