Armstrong in the mire again. LeMonde reports

[Race Radio]

Honestly, what I've seen is people getting slammed for not buying whole heartedly into the hate. Maybe the 'ignorant fanboy's' were here in the past, but I can't see many of them now. Combine that with what seems to be some pretty ridiculous and consistent slamming of armstrongs ability as a cyclist by so many 'haters' and it all seems to get too warped for reasonable discussion on anything that gets near to relating to him. Which is a lot of subject matter.

Others may take your posts seriously if instead of blanket statements like "People getting slammed for not buying into the hate" you actually attempt to discuss specifics.

When a groupie posts some long discredited Armstrong press release as fact you should not be surprised if some point out that it is incorrect.

 

[franciep10]

Contador isn't even close to a woods or armstrong within the sport yet - and may never be, outside of it he is virtually nothing.

This just shows how little you know about cycling, contador has won 4 grand tours in two years, he wins 93 % of the races and he has at least five more great years left in him, he will most likely surpass LA grand tour wins. He is a superstar in Spain he has given a lot of his salary towards children and adults suffering from brain injury,and also put money back into his community. So unlike LA he doesn't feel a need to publicize himself. That is one of the reasons I respect him although I know he' s probably a doper. Aren't you the ban pro cycling guy.

 

[thehog]

Perhaps you mean "renders the results invalid."

The key to not storing the sample correctly means it much more difficult to ascertain a positive as there is too much "noise" in the testing to affirm a positive. This is especially true when testing for EPO and micro dosing.

When never hear of these tests. They are just marked negative or "non conclusive" - no result.

 

[python]

let me remind everyone something. i’m sure many know the distinction but subconsciously forget to draw the line.

there are (were) two astana’s. one belongs to bruyneel armstrong and the other belongs to vinokourov. the first team can walk on water and into all sorts of open doors whilst the other one is an outcast pariah.
The first team was steadfastly defended even when aso booted them from the tour and the other team is endlessly tortured by the uci ultimatums and warnings.

the last one i hear will take place on 12 October. if they don’t provide some guarantees the license will be gone. 6 days to go.

 

[RhodriM]

there are (were) two astana’s. one belongs to bruyneel armstrong and the other belongs to vinokourov.

Astanastrong and Astanawrong?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".

1993
World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1995
1st Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
GC and 3 stages Tour Dupont
1996
1st Flèche Wallone

"Tinkerbell Contador"
2003
1st, Stage 8 (ITT) Tour de Pologne
2004
1st Mountains classification Vuelta a Aragón
2005
1st, Stage 5 Tour Down Under

1st Overall Setmana Catalana
1st, Stage 3

Tour of the Basque Country
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 4

2006
1st, Stage 8 Tour de Suisse
Tour de Romandie
1st, Stage 3

2007
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France
1st White jersey Winner youth classification
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Paris-Nice
1st White jersey Young rider classification
1st, Stage 4
1st, Stage 7

1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

2008
1st Overall Pink jersey Winner overall classification Giro d'Italia
1st Overall Golden jersey Winner overall classification Vuelta a España
1st white jersey Winner combination classification
1st, Stage 13
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Vuelta a País Vasco

1st Stage 1
1st Stage 6 (ITT)

2009
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France

1st, Stage 4 (TTT)
1st, Stage 15
1st, Stage 18 (ITT)

1st Red jersey with yellow stripes. Spanish National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st, Stage 4 (ITT)

1st Overall Vuelta al País Vasco

1st, Stage 3
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Paris-Nice

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 6

Quite frightening really, isn't it.

 

[Anonymous]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".

1993
World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1995
1st Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
GC and 3 stages Tour Dupont
1996
1st Flèche Wallone

"Tinkerbell Contador"
2003
1st, Stage 8 (ITT) Tour de Pologne
2004
1st Mountains classification Vuelta a Aragón
2005
1st, Stage 5 Tour Down Under

1st Overall Setmana Catalana
1st, Stage 3

Tour of the Basque Country
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 4

2006
1st, Stage 8 Tour de Suisse
Tour de Romandie
1st, Stage 3

2007
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France
1st White jersey Winner youth classification
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Paris-Nice
1st White jersey Young rider classification
1st, Stage 4
1st, Stage 7

1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

2008
1st Overall Pink jersey Winner overall classification Giro d'Italia
1st Overall Golden jersey Winner overall classification Vuelta a España
1st white jersey Winner combination classification
1st, Stage 13
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Vuelta a País Vasco

1st Stage 1
1st Stage 6 (ITT)

2009
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France

1st, Stage 4 (TTT)
1st, Stage 15
1st, Stage 18 (ITT)

1st Red jersey with yellow stripes. Spanish National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st, Stage 4 (ITT)

1st Overall Vuelta al País Vasco

1st, Stage 3
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Paris-Nice

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 6

Quite frightening really, isn't it.

But I thought Tiger Armstrong was the most gifted cyclist on the planet.

 

[franciep10]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".


Quite frightening really, isn't it.

It's so funny, LA at that age was a very promising classics rider a one day specialist and he could win stage in grand tours, Where did the climbing and the sudden time trial ability come from, whereas contador was a stage racer from day one.

 

[guilder]

For Sale: Florida waterfront property. Multiple acres with mountain views. Lance Armstrong need not apply. Serious inquiries only. Brochure $50

 

[franciep10]

For Sale: Florida waterfront property. Multiple acres with mountain views. Lance Armstrong need not apply. Serious inquiries only. Brochure $50

I don't get it

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get it

No mountains in Florida, a fraud (LA) pitching a product making claims that aren't true (fraud). Rich in irony.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".

1993
World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1995
1st Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
GC and 3 stages Tour Dupont
1996
1st Flèche Wallone

"Tinkerbell Contador"
2003
1st, Stage 8 (ITT) Tour de Pologne
2004
1st Mountains classification Vuelta a Aragón
2005
1st, Stage 5 Tour Down Under

1st Overall Setmana Catalana
1st, Stage 3

Tour of the Basque Country
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 4

2006
1st, Stage 8 Tour de Suisse
Tour de Romandie
1st, Stage 3

2007
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France
1st White jersey Winner youth classification
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Paris-Nice
1st White jersey Young rider classification
1st, Stage 4
1st, Stage 7

1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

2008
1st Overall Pink jersey Winner overall classification Giro d'Italia
1st Overall Golden jersey Winner overall classification Vuelta a España
1st white jersey Winner combination classification
1st, Stage 13
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Vuelta a País Vasco

1st Stage 1
1st Stage 6 (ITT)

2009
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France

1st, Stage 4 (TTT)
1st, Stage 15
1st, Stage 18 (ITT)

1st Red jersey with yellow stripes. Spanish National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st, Stage 4 (ITT)

1st Overall Vuelta al País Vasco

1st, Stage 3
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Paris-Nice

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 6

Quite frightening really, isn't it.

And that was not even including his Tour of Spain win!
Although to be fair it is 3 years vs. 6 years, maybe LA's a late bloomer? That is in addition to the other causes we know of

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".

1993
World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1995
1st Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
GC and 3 stages Tour Dupont
1996
1st Flèche Wallone

Only a few things I'd add for Tiger...

1993 1st USPRO Championships
1996 1st Tour Dupont (and probably a handful of stages too)

I had forgotten all about the great drought of 1994. About the only noteable thing from that year was this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR9k8UAohs

 

[Hugh Januss]

About the only noteable thing from that year was this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR9k8UAohs

Hah, I had forgotten that. I guess that was before his heart grew to 3 times the normal size huh?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Only a few things I'd add for Tiger...

1993 1st USPRO Championships
1996 1st Tour Dupont (and probably a handful of stages too)

I had forgotten all about the great drought of 1994. About the only noteable thing from that year was this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR9k8UAohs

Quite right.
I got them from here:-
http://www.cyclingbase.com/palcoureurs.php?id=175&idtitle=1
As it's about the most extensive palmares listing I've come across.
I have noticed other mistakes, however.
Hardly surprising, since they are French.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Quite right.
I got them from here:-
http://www.cyclingbase.com/palcoureurs.php?id=175&idtitle=1
As it's about the most extensive palmares listing I've come across.
I have noticed other mistakes, however.
Hardly surprising, since they are French.

Um, like his birthplace being Piano?

 

[Publicus]

let me remind everyone something. i’m sure many know the distinction but subconsciously forget to draw the line.

there are (were) two astana’s. one belongs to bruyneel armstrong and the other belongs to vinokourov. the first team can walk on water and into all sorts of open doors whilst the other one is an outcast pariah.
The first team was steadfastly defended even when aso booted them from the tour and the other team is endlessly tortured by the uci ultimatums and warnings.

the last one i hear will take place on 12 October. if they don’t provide some guarantees the license will be gone. 6 days to go.

It seems to me that there is nothing left in the cupboard to support continuation of their license. I mean besides AC and Vino, who's there? Who's the manager? If the Vino-Astana was serious about competing in 2010, they wouldn't have basically released the majority of their team to Radio Shack. No one forced them to do that, so I have no sympathy for their situation.

 

[Centcolliste]

The Le Monde Article is deliberately misleading

The way the Le Monde piece on the AFLD report is written makes it sound as if Astana got massively favorable treatment on a systematic basis. A careful reading shows that it is deliberately misleading. Certainly the point about always being the last to be tested, if Astana could rely on that being the case, would have been helpful to would-be dopers. However, apart from that the only favoritism shown Astana according to the article is the 45 minute delay on the 11th of July and the failure to transmit the team's whereabouts to testers before the Tour. The case of the mistake that led to the team not being tested can hardly be considered deliberate favoritism, unless you are deep into conspiracy theory. Some of this is certainly sloppy practice, and in the case of UCI inspectors holding up the escorts, quite odd, but systematic? Reading the rest of the article it is obvious that the AFLD report is focused mainly on criticism of the way the UCI ran the testing program as a whole and not on the treatment of Astana in particular.

The rest of the article goes into detail on these sloppy practices -- lack of proper storage for samples, giving too much warning to racers before testing, applying the out-of-competition testing regime to hotel tests, but it is clear that the UCI did this across the board, not just in Astana's case. Yet the way the Le Monde article is headlined and leads off the casual reader would think that the report is all about favoritism.

 

[franciep10]

No mountains in Florida, a fraud (LA) pitching a product making claims that aren't true (fraud). Rich in irony.

thanks, I never wanted the day to come where somebody has to explain a joke to me, by the may I have seen a hill maybe artificial in florida

 

[Anonymous]

thanks, I never wanted the day to come where somebody has to explain a joke to me, by the may I have seen a hill maybe artificial in florida

No worries. I think the highest "peak" in Florida (at least the peninsula) is about 100m above sea level. Flat as a pancake.

 

[pmcg76]

Comparative palmares at Contador's current age:
"Tiger Armstrong".

1993
World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1995
1st Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
GC and 3 stages Tour Dupont
1996
1st Flèche Wallone

"Tinkerbell Contador"
2003
1st, Stage 8 (ITT) Tour de Pologne
2004
1st Mountains classification Vuelta a Aragón
2005
1st, Stage 5 Tour Down Under

1st Overall Setmana Catalana
1st, Stage 3

Tour of the Basque Country
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 4

2006
1st, Stage 8 Tour de Suisse
Tour de Romandie
1st, Stage 3

2007
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France
1st White jersey Winner youth classification
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Paris-Nice
1st White jersey Young rider classification
1st, Stage 4
1st, Stage 7

1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

2008
1st Overall Pink jersey Winner overall classification Giro d'Italia
1st Overall Golden jersey Winner overall classification Vuelta a España
1st white jersey Winner combination classification
1st, Stage 13
1st, Stage 14

1st Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 4

1st Overall Vuelta a País Vasco

1st Stage 1
1st Stage 6 (ITT)

2009
1st Overall Yellow jersey Winner overall classification Tour de France

1st, Stage 4 (TTT)
1st, Stage 15
1st, Stage 18 (ITT)

1st Red jersey with yellow stripes. Spanish National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st, Stage 4 (ITT)

1st Overall Vuelta al País Vasco

1st, Stage 3
1st, Stage 6 (ITT)

Paris-Nice

1st, Stage 1 (ITT)
1st, Stage 6

Quite frightening really, isn't it.

In fairness, Lance won more than that, especially the Settimana Bergamasque race as an amateur but most of his wins were mostly races on the US scene, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, West Virginia etc. Even the Tour du Pont was a sub standard event in comparison to European races, kinda like Tour of Missouri.

There was never the slightest hint that he would become a Tour contender and he admitted as much himself. Even after all that happened in 98, I was still prepared to believe the miracle of 99 even if I found his performances staggering.

 

[dopingectomy]

Reading the rest of the article it is obvious that the AFLD report is focused mainly on criticism of the way the UCI ran the testing program as a whole

the battle for the TDF 2010 has already begun!

 

[Mellow Velo]

In fairness, Lance won more than that, especially the Settimana Bergamasque race as an amateur but most of his wins were mostly races on the US scene, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, West Virginia etc. Even the Tour du Pont was a sub standard event in comparison to European races, kinda like Tour of Missouri.

I'm sure he did, but I drew the line at a comparative (pro) level.
Including the Tour du Pont, I felt, was only fair.

 

[luckyboy]

These are the most extensive Lance results I can find..

http://www.cyclingwebsite.net/coureuruitslagenfiche.php?coureurid=300

Good site, that.

 

[Mellow Velo]

These are the most extensive Lance results I can find..

http://www.cyclingwebsite.net/coureuruitslagenfiche.php?coureurid=300

Good site, that.

Damn, it's good.
Yup, a lot of new results there, some obscure to say the least
Tour of Lombardy is a nice little race. Used to be a 2.5, back in the old money days.

However, here's Bertie's and guess what? Just the same. Mucho more wins, of some real oddities.

http://www.cyclingwebsite.net/coureuruitslagenfiche.php?coureurid=1567