Armstrong takes money then spits in the face of the Giro !

[Anonymous]

There I fixed it for you. If you are going to be anti doping, be anti doping.

Getting back to the point of the thread, too many people here talk about racing behind the safety of a monitor. I would bet the majority on this board would have no part of a circuit race with a field of that size on that course.

well said!!
most of us that have even done local crit racing have had to deal with courses with unsafe elements and just buck up and go. when you race you see this isn't for the faint of heart and at the higher levels i think of it as a tough guy sport. (and tough girl too.)
that said.. it can reach a point where it's just not sane.

 

[Leopejo]

Rabobank declined the offer, because they did not want to partake in what was deemed a political game between some teams and the organization.

And still after the stage, race leader Di Luca didn't know of their refusal of the offer.

They also found it unjustifiable to 'use' the Horillo accident in order to advance the interests of some teams v. the organization.

Interesting. Can you expand on this?

 

[slowoldman]

Who cares? They are pro bike racers, we are not. Yah, personally I rarely race crits anymore because I'm sick of the crashes, but that's because I don't get paid to. These guys do.

Second, field size doesn't matter a lick, it's how the field races the course. If these guys really thought the course was dangerous than the strong teams should have been at the front stringing the race out into a straight line for all the finishing circuits. That would have given the fans the show they came to see and kept the racing safe.

They shouldn't care for their own safety just because they get paid. Curious, do you take safety precautions or worry about dangerous situations at your job or do you just do it because you get paid? Let's hope you don't work for the power company. Of course field size matters, I have yet to watch or participate in ANY race that has been strung out single file for 150K. At some point it will bunch up and on a circuit like that the trouble starts. I didn't watch yesterdays stage (because I was actually racing my bike) but I hear the last 10K or so was raced (by alot smaller field) and a sprint took place so essentially the crowd was able to see a finish without further endangering the riders. To me a win-win situation.

 

[Parrot23]

I understand Zomegnan, I really do. I mean, the guy went out of his way to make the centenary Giro super comfy for LA (not going to France, neutering Blockhaus, giving CSF and Simeoni the elbow, not to mention the hefty appearance fee...), and what does LA do?

Okay, I see that. Yes, there were some odd things going on, taken together. As usual, several sides to a story.

Just for the humour of it (no sarcasm intended): they should have had a crit. through Naples, instead, through its seasonal garbage piles, turning it into an urban Giro cyclocross...a new Zomegan "spectacle" for the tifosis' viewing pleasure. A new approach for the Giro: a moto GP/ roller-derby hybrid, with touches of cyclo-cross.

Any griping will be instantly subject to enhanced policing by the "Family", to ensure peloton omerta.

 

[BikeCentric]

They shouldn't care for their own safety just because they get paid. Curious, do you take safety precautions or worry about dangerous situations at your job or do you just do it because you get paid? Let's hope you don't work for the power company. Of course field size matters, I have yet to watch or participate in ANY race that has been strung out single file for 150K. At some point it will bunch up and on a circuit like that the trouble starts. I didn't watch yesterdays stage (because I was actually racing my bike) but I hear the last 10K or so was raced (by alot smaller field) and a sprint took place so essentially the crowd was able to see a finish without further endangering the riders. To me a win-win situation.

Oh please, you can see in my response I specifically said string it out for the finishing circuits only. We all know that is not that difficult for pros to handle.

But really I should not be talking about this as I also was racing and did not watch the stage. So perhaps it truly was a ridiculously dangerous circuit but my initial opinion is that seems to be the riders acting like prima-donnas. I mean Paris Roubaix has GOT to be more dangerous than any downtown finishing circuit am I right?

 

[this_is_edie]

Oh please, you can see in my response I specifically said string it out for the finishing circuits only. We all know that is not that difficult for pros to handle.

But really I should not be talking about this as I also was racing and did not watch the stage. So perhaps it truly was a ridiculously dangerous circuit but my initial opinion is that seems to be the riders acting like prima-donnas. I mean Paris Roubaix has GOT to be more dangerous than any downtown finishing circuit am I right?

they used the same roads as previous years so...

 

[Leopejo]

A few rider replies from today (source: gazzetta.it, biased but reporting opinions from both sides; my rough translation):

I think that after what happened yesterday everybody had a regret. From tomorrow the peloton will be ready to start again with spectacular racing. What happened? Sometimes you get nervous, and hurried decisions not always end up being the right ones. We must also say that every time we told the organization about a danger, they have listened to us

What I dislike most is having heard insults by the roadside viewers, but better not to talk about it anymore. We race on normal roads, not on the track. Risks are part of the trade and we can't pretend to have safety nets on every descent.

We can't passively accept everything. 14 riders broke their wheels in the first laps. Here we are at the Giro, not at Roubaix, where you know what you are facing and for example you use stronger tyres. We all agreed, we almost stopped racing altogether.

What happened in Milan was a big error. When Bertolini advised us that the sprinters didn't want to race the sprint, I ordered my team to keep a faster pace.

 

[Bala Verde]

I mean Paris Roubaix has GOT to be more dangerous than any downtown finishing circuit am I right?

That's why so many riders do not compete there.

In a GT however, you can't forsake the whole stage race, because there is one stage you don't particularly like. Next year we'll only see the men of the Flemish classics show up at the giro. Now that'd be interesting

 

[Escarabajo]

I ride bicycles but I do not race. But my common sense in this matter is that GT don't usually put crits because of safety reasons unless is the last stage. I consider there is a huge difference between a crit in the middle of the Giro and the last stage of the Giro because of the final standings implications. Just imagine all the GC contenders and theirs teams fighting for position in order to not loose time. I can bet any money that a horrible accident would have happened.

So there. I am against crits in the Grand Tours in the middle of the heat of the race.

Thanks

I forgot. Maybe Cavendish would have punched Soler again for being at the front of the bunch.

 

[Anonymous]

Who cares? They are pro bike racers, we are not. Yah, personally I rarely race crits anymore because I'm sick of the crashes, but that's because I don't get paid to. These guys do.

Second, field size doesn't matter a lick, it's how the field races the course. If these guys really thought the course was dangerous than the strong teams should have been at the front stringing the race out into a straight line for all the finishing circuits. That would have given the fans the show they came to see and kept the racing safe.

first... this is the giro.. a stage race.. not a crit.. a stage race. 200 riders.
at this point of the race, the number if riders that would have NEEDED to stay near the front, gc'ers and their protectors, sprinters and their lead outs would be what? 100? more? on that course?
i admit i don't have the nerve for crts and you say you don't do much crit racing any more because of the crashes.
i'm tired of SEEING them.

 

[Bala Verde]

I ride bicycles but I do not race. But my common sense in this matter is that GT don't usually put crits because of safety reasons unless is the last stage. I consider there is a huge difference between a crit in the middle of the Giro and the last stage of the Giro because of the final standings implications. Just imagine all the GC contenders and theirs teams fighting for position in order to not loose time. I can bet any money that a horrible accident would have happened.

So there. I am against crits in the Grand Tours in the middle of the heat of the race.

Thanks

I forgot. Maybe Cavendish would have punched Soler again for being at the front of the bunch.

+1. Good post.

 

[BikeCentric]

first... this is the giro.. a stage race.. not a crit.. a stage race. 200 riders.
at this point of the race, the number if riders that would have NEEDED to stay near the front, gc'ers and their protectors, sprinters and their lead outs would be what? 100? more? on that course?
i admit i don't have the nerve for crts and you say you don't do much crit racing any more because of the crashes.
i'm tired of SEEING them.

This wasn't a crit though Jack - it was a finishing CIRCUIT. A crit is classified as a course that is typically less than one mile in distance - we're talking a very short course. This circuit was nothing close to a US style crit.

Anyway, in crits most crashes happen towards the end of a race when the field bunches up as no one wants to lead out the sprint and then you have tons of guys fighting for a placing in a big pack scrum. This doesn't happen in the upper categories (especially pros) as teams are keen to keep the field strung out to keep the weak stuck on the back of the line and of course lead out their sprinter.

 

[BikeCentric]

I ride bicycles but I do not race. But my common sense in this matter is that GT don't usually put crits because of safety reasons unless is the last stage. I consider there is a huge difference between a crit in the middle of the Giro and the last stage of the Giro because of the final standings implications. Just imagine all the GC contenders and theirs teams fighting for position in order to not loose time. I can bet any money that a horrible accident would have happened.

So there. I am against crits in the Grand Tours in the middle of the heat of the race.

Thanks

I forgot. Maybe Cavendish would have punched Soler again for being at the front of the bunch.

See my above post - this circuit was not even close to a criterium.

 

[Anonymous]

what a pile of crap.. lance on his own, does no cause the riders to all say they think the stage is unsafe.. more a case of the press asked the riders what lance thought of the whole thing because they cannot live without there daily fix of lance...

complete pile of nonsense.. just another excuse for the lance bashers...

personally i think the course was idiotic.. having been to paris four times and seen the organisation there where you cant even cross the road at 7am before being stopped by police and everything is proffessionally done, the course in milan was a fiasco.. ignore the dodgy corners with tramlines, there where pedestrians freely wandering with virtually no police or stewards, there where cars driving around, it was a mess..

but.. the riders that made a mockery of the whole thing, where the riders who chose to race over the last 15km.. they where the ones who made it look like the rest of the pelaton where being idiots..

on this one i think either, the whole pelaton should have raced together, or the whole pelaton gone on a gentle ride together.. to ride for most of the race, and race for 15k is what made a mockery..

I do think the levels of safety on this giro have been pretty poor.. unmarked street furniture, bollards with no police with flags on them, some horrendous streets, poor downhills and milan was just the culmination...

give the french the credit.. there is reason the tour is the greatest race in the world..

 

[bikepure]

I thought his comback was all about spreading the message of Livestrong to the world so why would he need a starting fee to come to Italy. It doesn't sound very philanthropical to me.

If I was in his situation I wouldn't take a starting fee but rather encourage the organizers to make a donation to the charity.

this is words of the gospel of real riders. fully agree
armstrong is a politician . he didnt talk to reporters at then end; he is a media ***** and uses then and us.

 

[Anonymous]

just remembered one bit where a van was parked on a centre reservation with about 2 foot of its **** end sticking out causing everyone to swerve.. the course was a mess..

as for lance and money.. i was under the impression that his appearance fees where going to livestrong.. is that wrong?

 

[Bala Verde]

This wasn't a crit though Jack - it was a finishing CIRCUIT. A crit is classified as a course that is typically less than one mile in distance - we're talking a very short course. This circuit was nothing close to a US style crit.

In the US a crit is probably classified as a course typically less then one mile in distance.

I doubt the Italians were commemorating and celebrating this US style crit in their centenary edition of the Giro. I might be mistaken, but everything I read makes me believe that the Milano "crit" was meant to closely resemble the European tradition of Kermesse, Kermiskoers or criterium.

Since downtown European cities or even towns and small villages, are not alike US grid-like downtown areas consisting of 'blocks' of residences or offices, the European crits are rarely just 1 mile in circumference...

 

[pmcg76]

If the circuit was dangerous and if the majority of riders agreed, then they were right to protest, lots of other stages in races have been neutralised before. Its irrelevant who was behind the protest, after all its normally the top riders to the fore.

For the cenennial Giro, its turning into a bit of a joke, all these changes and problems, maybe they spent too much time beforehand wooing a certain rider instead of checking stages out properly. Perhaps it karma on Zomengen for paying one rider to compete(What a joke) in his race and excluding Ceramica Flaminia.

Whatever, paying a rider(big bucks) to compete in a Grand Tour is a sell-out and sets a bad example. Whatever problems Zomenge is now encountering now, well, serves him right.

 

[Escarabajo]

See my above post - this circuit was not even close to a criterium.

My mistake.

The danger still applies to this type of circuit. All GC contenders and their teams fighting for position at the front for many laps is still a big risk. To my estimations, I consider the circuit more dangerous than a mountain stage. Of course everything is different when you have a World Championship because once you drop you are out. A lot of guys will not fight for position in the world championship circuit because they know they have no chance (Sastre, Menchov, Basso, Many other climbers).

Thanks

 

[hfer07]

Everybody with knowledge on the Giro's history remembers the "risk" factor in Italy-- Every single cyclist/team that have ridden the Giro have always complained about the UNSAFE ROADS, THE LONG AND EXHAUSTING TRANSFERENCE BETWEEN STAGES,THE POOR ACCOMMODATIONS, THE UNBALANCE BETWEEN THE MOUNTAINS & THE FLAT STAGES, ETC.

It only takes a tragic calamity to call the attention of the organizers to spend more time doing better logistics & preparations In advance to the event.

The problem with LA regarding his complains is that he got paid to "enhance" the Giro-- not to question it or embarrass the organizers--but I find myself hard to believe that he dares to do so, when he hasn't been performing a decent level yet to compete in it....

 

[BikeCentric]

Mario Cipollini's take:
“Milan doesn’t deserve this treatment,” he said. “I don’t understand or share the riders’ decision. If you’re racing on a bicycle you take risks, and whoever does this job knows that.”

 

[Mr.DNA]

what a pile of crap.. lance on his own, does no cause the riders to all say they think the stage is unsafe.. more a case of the press asked the riders what lance thought of the whole thing because they cannot live without there daily fix of lance...

complete pile of nonsense.. just another excuse for the lance bashers...

After reading Zomegnan's quotes on the stage, I think it's safe to say that you can now count him among us.

 

[BroDeal]

Maybe they should change the pink jersey to more of a urine color. The maglia cowardo.

 

[Bala Verde]

Mario Cipollini's take:
“Milan doesn’t deserve this treatment,” he said. “I don’t understand or share the riders’ decision. If you’re racing on a bicycle you take risks, and whoever does this job knows that.”

Half the peloton's take, who happen to still be in the profession of bike racing: 'We do not take unnecessary risks, otherwise we'll go on strike".

And who cares about "Milan's treatment", an expression of disgust and indignation of a perhaps hypersensitive and easily provoked Italian, prioritizing the promotion of a city and its investments for the organization of the stage, over the rider's self perceived dangers of the circuit...

 

[Anonymous]

This wasn't a crit though Jack - it was a finishing CIRCUIT. A crit is classified as a course that is typically less than one mile in distance - we're talking a very short course. This circuit was nothing close to a US style crit.

Anyway, in crits most crashes happen towards the end of a race when the field bunches up as no one wants to lead out the sprint and then you have tons of guys fighting for a placing in a big pack scrum. This doesn't happen in the upper categories (especially pros) as teams are keen to keep the field strung out to keep the weak stuck on the back of the line and of course lead out their sprinter.

ok.. it's a circut.
does that change what i said about the number of riders that would feel the need to be near the front all race long?
i think the riders were worried about far more than a final sprint crash... racing at pace would have been a problem.