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Armstrong takes money then spits in the face of the Giro !

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Apr 2, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Still, at least now, they can cancel the really tough stage 19, citing riders fears of a possible eruption.:rolleyes:

Hehehe That is a good one Mellow!! So, Zomegnan has learned a lesson. The riders learned something also, they can't stick together. Whether this was right or wrong some riders still raced at the end. if the riders are going to attempt to make a point, they should stick together.
 
What this thread and the majority of the responses sound like is a bunch of folks that were unhappy with there not being racing for the full extent of the predetermined route. This is with no regard for the riders' concern for the lack of thought by the organizers in the safety of the route with 190+ riders taking part in what was simply a crit in a congested downtown metropolis. Parked cars with barely visible roping attached to the rear supposedly acting as a warning to the participants, traffic traveling in the opposite direction full blast on the other side of the street, train/trolley tracks running diagnol across the course, etc... The only riders that would likely have done reconnaissance on this course would have been those that had a chance at victory on the stage. It seems the sprinters didn't mind because opportunities for them are few and far between in this Giro.

The neutralizing of the stage by the organizers if in fact they authorized such an action would have been done only for showing support for Horrilo's tragic plight. It was my understanding that an agreement or suggestion was made that the Rabobank team would be allowed to cross the finish line in unison at the end of the "neutralized" stage. This plan apparently went out the window when teams began winding up the tempo in the final km's in prep for a sprint that wasn't supposed to take place. This particular part of the day's events is unclear. Was the Rabobank idea agreed upon or not?

The two incidents- Horrilo's crash and the stage being neutralized in response AND the segment of riders represented by DiLuca with Armstrong being the silent partner, that decided the course was unsafe for racing-are both viable reasons to neutralize the stage. Crits are fast, furious and dangerous and courses for them should be well thought out with more involved in the process than simply the spectacle and the commerce involved. If the course was as described then the riders have a right to complain and protest the conditions. Even Armstrong with his $$$$ appearance fee.
 
trailrunner said:
Why hasn't the discussion here considered the fact that maybe the course really was too dangerous? It sounds like it was a crit (25 turns) but with long laps (15k). That's not a typical GT stage. Most pros that ride GTs and classics avoid crits, other than the few ceremonial ones they'll do but not really contest. Then throw in parked cars, tram tracks, and traffic going in the opposite direction, and it sounded like a pretty dangerous course, just for the sake of being in the birthplace of the Giro. When I've directed my local club's race, we had some traffic in opposing lanes, but the officials were not happy about it, so I can't imagine a pro race with traffic so close.

You throw something like this into a GT (with a completely different risk profile from a mountain descent or a few clicks of a city finish) and you are going to get some push back - and in the context of a serious accident in the day previous... it was not well thought through be the organisers and then badly executed. A bit of a mess really.
 
Mar 16, 2009
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Let's see 3 riders crashed on the first lap. which was what 32kph average?
Is that out of the ordinary? I guess you can touch wheels at any speed. Does anyone know if that was the cause. did they go down together? were they avoiding obstacles in the road?
 
quadsRme said:
Hehehe That is a good one Mellow!! So, Zomegnan has learned a lesson. The riders learned something also, they can't stick together. Whether this was right or wrong some riders still raced at the end. if the riders are going to attempt to make a point, they should stick together.

Let's see you try policing 190+ riders. Ideally the leaders of each team could have met prior to the race to air their concerns to try to get a consensus. According to what I've read, and this seems to be nothing more than an assumption by the author, the senior Italian riders: DiLuca, Garzelli, Basso, Simoni, and Pellizoto got together and made the decision with DiLuca as race leader being the spokesman.
 
May 9, 2009
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quadsRme said:
The riders learned something also, they can't stick together. Whether this was right or wrong some riders still raced at the end. if the riders are going to attempt to make a point, they should stick together.

There's a big difference between racing 10k and racing the entire 150k. Once they started racing with 10k left, the race consisted of a token breakaway attempt by Voigt and then a short sprint. For the most part they stuck together.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Angliru said:
The neutralizing of the stage by the organizers if in fact they authorized such an action would have been done only for showing support for Horrilo's tragic plight. It was my understanding that an agreement or suggestion was made that the Rabobank team would be allowed to cross the finish line in unison at the end of the "neutralized" stage. This plan apparently went out the window when teams began winding up the tempo in the final km's in prep for a sprint that wasn't supposed to take place. This particular part of the day's events is unclear. Was the Rabobank idea agreed upon or not?

Rabobank declined the offer, because they did not want to partake in what was deemed a political game between some teams and the organization. They also found it unjustifiable to 'use' the Horillo accident in order to advance the interests of some teams v. the organization. That being said, Rabobank spokesmen did declare that they found the loop rather dangerous.

PS> did they make riders cross tram tracks?
 

whiteboytrash

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Mar 17, 2009
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trailrunner said:
CD or the stipper could complain if the venue becomes unsafe, say with people crashing the stage (although not too likely at a CD show), or sleazy men going beyond just looking at the stripper, say by grabbing her or trying to get something extra..

Not if she gets a million upfront she can't. Same goes for Big American Texas from the US. The agreement is he turns up and says nice things about Italy and doesn't pick fights with the organisers. If you don't accept the cash then he can big the big man on campus in the peleton. You can't have it both ways. He's not one of the guys anymore. He accepts money from race promoters to do his thing. And that’s to turn up and let the camera look at him and in turn he has to play the part.

Btw/ You seemed to know a lot about Celin Dion and strippers. Why is this so ? :p:p:p:p
 
Apr 21, 2009
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Why hasn't the discussion considered...

trailrunner said:
Why hasn't the discussion here considered the fact that maybe the course really was too dangerous? It sounds like it was a crit (25 turns) but with long laps (15k). That's not a typical GT stage. Most pros that ride GTs and classics avoid crits, other than the few ceremonial ones they'll do but not really contest. Then throw in parked cars, tram tracks, and traffic going in the opposite direction, and it sounded like a pretty dangerous course, just for the sake of being in the birthplace of the Giro. When I've directed my local club's race, we had some traffic in opposing lanes, but the officials were not happy about it, so I can't imagine a pro race with traffic so close.

Because this is the official Lance-hating website. Nothing else matters.
 
May 12, 2009
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First, while I suspect Lance has a reasonable amount of pull, no way could he be the major person behind this. Even within Astana, given that Levi is their GC guy, he would need Levi's support. Beyond that certainly the weight of the Italian team leaders would have much more power. If DiLuca had wanted to race, no way Lance would have been able to overrule that.

Second, I'm sure that the Horrillo crash combined with a not great course and control had a lot of folks nervous.

Third, take a look at this pic:
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races09/giro09/giro09st09ed-tracks.jpg

I would not want to be racing that, especially with a possibility of rain in the forecast.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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I think Armstrong did the right thing. If he'd stayed quiet when it was ALREADY known that he was unhappy about the safety of some previous stages, then he would have been corrupted by the appearance fee money. The fact that he spoke up shows that his position was legit. (ie. not compromised with money or self interest).

Whether people like it or not (and I tend NOT to like it), he is a patron of the peloton still, in some sense. And he did what he could, using his influence.

I think riders are getting kicked around recently. I have no sympathy whatsoever for dopers or the defense of dubious riders, but the Boonen cocaine incident (UCI etc. coming down hard on him for a personal addiction problem), for example., shows a bit of a pattern of riders getting kicked around.

As Armstrong says, the sports shouldn't be moto GP. Look at women's Olympic gymnastics: it's become a circus act of 13 year-old pre-pubescent girls. Cycling doesn't have to become a spectacle, a circus act, despite what Zomegnan says.

Look how Beloki's career was destroyed by a crash at the Tour, albeit maybe unavoidable in the case. But why tempt disaster?
 
whiteboytrash said:
Didn't Lance cause that crash ?

LOL no, Beloki was in front of him at the time. Beloki skidded the rear wheel, then blew out his rear tire, leading to his high-siding the bike in the crash and coming down hard on his leg and smashing his femur.

It was just a tragic freak thing that can happen on the last mountain descent on a hot day with a tired rider.
 
May 9, 2009
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whiteboytrash said:
Not if she gets a million upfront she can't.

Sez who? Take an extreme example where in the middle of the show, the fans start pelting her with white-wine sprizers. Why don't you think she could leave at that point?


whiteboytrash said:
Btw/ You seemed to know a lot about Celin Dion and strippers. Why is this so ?

You were the one who brought up those two as examples to support your argument. I was just pointing out the flaws in your logic.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Well, judging from Zomegnan's reaction yesterday, it sure looks that way.
I understand Zomegnan, I really do. I mean, the guy went out of his way to make the centenary Giro super comfy for LA (not going to France, neutering Blockhaus, giving CSF and Simeoni the elbow, not to mention the hefty appearance fee...), and what does LA do? Kicks him in the teeth (though along with many others). And for what? Safety concerns? Didn't look to me there was much concern for the riders' safety on that last lap.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Well they need to get the parked cars out of the road if thats the case... I've done a crit before with parked cars and had a couple of scary moments as I swung a little too wide.

But as far as Lance he's an ***! He's getting way more than $500,000 to ride the Giro... Like 1 million plus! Its also rumored he rakes up 8% of what his cancer foundation raises when he travels.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Dopes. D-O-P-E!

If Lance was clean for the Giro he'd have DNF'd a week ago, first day of climbing. He probably took a blood refill this morning.

Cheers :)
 
Yup.
Seems like all of a sudden, 21st century road racing is all about cotton wool wrapped riders.
Don't forget, this was the second neutralised finish in 8 road stages. That's 25%, for those numerically challenged.
Stage 6, dangerous? No not really. Seen far worse raced safely.

Of course, we all know that bunch sprints often end in pile ups. The singularly most common cause of crashes, which, in turn may cause injury.

Zomegnan, without actually naming names, has said who he believes is behind yesterday's farce.
The person with the most to lose, who is currently running scared.

Pedro Horillo's accident, while awful, is not unique and played no part in yesterday's debacle.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Zoncolan said:
Well, judging from Zomegnan's reaction yesterday, it sure looks that way.
I understand Zomegnan, I really do. I mean, the guy went out of his way to make the centenary Giro super comfy for LA (not going to France, neutering Blockhaus, giving CSF and Simeoni the elbow, not to mention the hefty appearance fee...), and what does LA do? Kicks him in the teeth (though along with many others). And for what? Safety concerns? Didn't look to me there was much concern for the riders' safety on that last lap.

In spite of all this, it's clear that Zomegnan doesn't care about LA's safety. Why? Because he forgot to remove the downhill curvy bits in Stage 7!
 
Apr 10, 2009
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BroDeal said:
This appears to an anti-dopers site. Since INSERT PRO TOUR RIDERS NAME HERE doped and continues to lie about it, he does not get much love.

There I fixed it for you. If you are going to be anti doping, be anti doping.

Getting back to the point of the thread, too many people here talk about racing behind the safety of a monitor. I would bet the majority on this board would have no part of a circuit race with a field of that size on that course.
 
A

Anonymous

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i guess everybody thinks they need to take a shot a the big dog. i shouldn't be surprised. i don't understand why anyone should be aghast at the idea that lance might get appearance money when he's attracted more attention to the giro than it has EVER had. and to accuse him of lack of nerve is just strange considering this is the guy that did what? won the hardest sporting event in world seven times. i don't think those that question his guts are worthy of sniffing his bike shorts. if i'm not mistaken a teammate of lance was killed in a tour crash and i'm certain the terrifying crash of Horrillo had to have been heavy on riders minds. i don't see any proof that he was the main source of complaints about the stage. what i saw was pretty much everyone involved in the discussion as they raced. no one rider can control the group. the peleton has a mind of its own. if more than a few disagreed with what was going on they simply would have attacked off the front made the rest look foolish. that's not what happened. this has been coming. it appears the riders perceive that they are being expected to accept whatever conditions are thrown at them without recourse. the same thing happened auto racing long ago. the drivers stood up for themselves. truth is, cycling is now far more dangerous than auto racing. i think the problems with the finishing sections of races six, seven, and even eight are real and i'm proud of the riders for standing up for themselves.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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These were the same roads that were used in previous year's Giro in Milan. Most of the riders know these roads and have raced on these roads - so if they are so dangerous, they should have spoken up months (years?) earlier.

Yes the cars should have been removed from the roads, but were their presence too dangerous for racing?

And again, in previous years, the roads in finishing circuits are not completed closed off in barriers, just the approach to the finish typically. Oh and same thing at the Tour of California - and yes folks could and did cross the course during the Santa Rosa finish for example.
 
slowoldman said:
Getting back to the point of the thread, too many people here talk about racing behind the safety of a monitor. I would bet the majority on this board would have no part of a circuit race with a field of that size on that course.

Who cares? They are pro bike racers, we are not. Yah, personally I rarely race crits anymore because I'm sick of the crashes, but that's because I don't get paid to. These guys do.

Second, field size doesn't matter a lick, it's how the field races the course. If these guys really thought the course was dangerous than the strong teams should have been at the front stringing the race out into a straight line for all the finishing circuits. That would have given the fans the show they came to see and kept the racing safe.
 

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