Armstrong Under Criminal Investigation

[DirtyWorks]

My point was just that that was their decision, they weren't compelled to, and by the same token, nothing LA might say before a federal investigation will compel him to testify before USADA.

You are forgetting that Wonderboy doesn't want to be deposed in the U.S. He can't do it without tripping perjury charges because IMHO, he can't tell the truth from fiction anyway. Or, more charitably, the truth leads directly to jail time. He can go to Switzerland/somewhere and do another Doprah performance in front of the UCI's fictional T&R process though...

There has to be some independent motivating factor that gets him there.

As posted previously, IMHO it's because he wants to return to age-grade Tri glory and has to get the lifetime ban reduced. It's a stimulus->response situation where Wonderboy is calculating how much he has to tell. He calculated the lying and admission with Doprah would be enough and it wasn't. So he's recalculating.

Well, we know LA met TT before, to discuss the possibility of testifying. Why did it end acrimoniously?

Pretty simple. Wonderboy's particular brand of pathology is any rules in his way do not apply to him. TT was working inside the rules and would not let Wonderboy ignore the rules. Plus, Wonderboy knows he can't testify under oath in the U.S.

 

[ruamruam]

The crime of trying to stop people reporting you is a very common one that prosecutors usually don't prosecute. It's defensive rather than proactive criminality - a side effect of the main matter. Prosecutors have a lot of discretion depending on the circumstances. The wider circumstances in this situation is not only doping in cycling - hardly a priority for law enforcement - but the matter that LA has now confessed to the doping and is going through a process of talking and apologising to people who feel hurt along the way. I think that is a very good reason for the feds to stay out of it. So yeah, Oprah does matter. What about Floyd fairness fraud - a proactive rather than a defensive crime - did people call for Floyd to go to jail? And didn't even ths user who opened the thread claim to have withheld negative information on Jo Papp so as to help ensure he didn't go to jail? Ah? Hypocrisy anyone?

In this case, it's quite likely that many people who have received harsh words from Lance don't want him to go to jail. Why would your opinion matter more than theirs? That is bizarre to me.

Hi Lance

I'd say it has been a rough year for you.

All the best

Ruamruam

 

[CivilRightsCycling]

I thought Daniel Benson's observation of Tyler was very interesting.

Now based in Montana, Hamilton is as far removed from those Postal days as ever imaginable. He doesn’t appear to cling to the past nor revel in a campaign to see life-time bans for committing the same offences. He has nothing to lose, it’s true, but his calls for truth and reconciliation, rather than the truth and retribution hardliners advocate, appear as heart-felt as the lines from his book.

I don't think Tyler wants Lance to go to jail. He's much less hardline than the guys on this thread. I think he would be driven off this forum fairly quickly. Possibly banned for trolling.

 

[ebandit]

Bpc

I thought Daniel Benson's observation of Tyler was very interesting.



I don't think Tyler wants Lance to go to jail. He's much less hardline than the guys on this thread. I think he would be driven off this forum fairly quickly. Possibly banned for trolling.

ButPurityCounts...................Lance is Tainted...........agreed

jail is hard but deserved..............members within the clinic are distanced

enough to make rational judgement

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

You are forgetting that Wonderboy doesn't want to be deposed in the U.S. He can't do it without tripping perjury charges because IMHO, he can't tell the truth from fiction anyway. Or, more charitably, the truth leads directly to jail time. He can go to Switzerland/somewhere and do another Doprah performance in front of the UCI's fictional T&R process though...


This is probably a huge source of frustration for his barely competent buddy Tim Herman...

 

[D-Queued]

Yes, I was serious. The details can differ but the intent part is important. And, FWIW, the standard of what is a Living F'ing hell is not codified that's why intent becomes important. Yes, it's a subtle difference but it might matter. e.g. Betsy Andreau is ... about Lance. How much of that is him and how much is her. She's making herself miserable long after he stopped doing anything to or about her. Heck, she's madder than Frankie. At some point she needs to move on. I'm not saying that he didn't intend the exact result but there is a contributory aspect to this. e.g. If Frankie hadn't continued to lie about his drug use ( and her knowledge of it) this might have ended long ago.

Nice try.

You are spreading lies and making a personal attack on a fellow member of this forum.

These assertions about Betsy have been dismissed by Lance himself, through a public apology.

This is a thread about Lance, not about Betsy. Or Frankie.

Your apology is overdue.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

Yes, I was serious. The details can differ but the intent part is important. And, FWIW, the standard of what is a Living F'ing hell is not codified that's why intent becomes important. Yes, it's a subtle difference but it might matter. e.g. Betsy Andreau is ... about Lance. How much of that is him and how much is her. She's making herself miserable long after he stopped doing anything to or about her. Heck, she's madder than Frankie. At some point she needs to move on. I'm not saying that he didn't intend the exact result but there is a contributory aspect to this. e.g. If Frankie hadn't continued to lie about his drug use ( and her knowledge of it) this might have ended long ago.

All she's done is speak common sense. She's a little moralistic (and, believe me, I'm not criticizing anybody for that), but that's certainly not lunacy. It appears that you just don't like her message and you've opted for name calling.

 

[reginagold]

I know you're going to court. You know I can hurt you. Enjoy your giving your testimony.

Judge, that's ok right?

 

[Angliru]

Cycling wouldn't disappear, but there's already been a big sponsor crush, and the reputation has been hit hard. I can't see why anyone would welcome adding to that. And yes, he's left his foundation and they've taken a big hit too. I can't see why anyone would want them to suffer more either.

I don't get it. I honestly don't. Is it just a game?

If there are people here who don't want to see Lance in jail, it will be interesting to see if they have the courage to speak up. If they remain silent, I will assume they agree with the Joe Arpaio's.

If jail is what is decided I have no problem with that. As far as sponsors go I really can't see how Armstrong's further prosecution on the underhanded tactics he used to continue his deception would have any effect on decisions current or potential sponsors may make.

 

[MarkvW]

I said before I know not a lot on US law, do now a little bit more - quiet day at the office - but isn't withness temparing illegal/criminal only when one succeeds?

Therefore the obstruction of justice complaint will be crucial - and, I think not too hard to prove -, or did someone get bullied into a false statement?

Now we know why he did not name names at the Soprah interview; he was taking the fifth all the way!

Witness tampering does not require success. And then there is attempted witness tampering, which (in short) is intending to witness tamper and then taking a substantial step toward committing the crime of witness tampering.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Yes, I was serious. The details can differ but the intent part is important. And, FWIW, the standard of what is a Living F'ing hell is not codified that's why intent becomes important. Yes, it's a subtle difference but it might matter. e.g. Betsy Andreau is ... about Lance. How much of that is him and how much is her. She's making herself miserable long after he stopped doing anything to or about her. Heck, she's ... than Frankie. At some point she needs to move on. I'm not saying that he didn't intend the exact result but there is a contributory aspect to this. e.g. If Frankie hadn't continued to lie about his drug use ( and her knowledge of it) this might have ended long ago.

Funny, there are people on the internet creating FB and Twitter accounts in the Andreau's name RIGHT NOW and posting incredibly inflammatory things meant to make them look bad, and you harp on Betsy again? That woman took more abuse than anyone over past 13 years, and it takes a real ("jerk", ed.) to keep beating that drum.

At some point, you need to move on.

 

[D-Queued]

Witness tampering does not require success. And then there is attempted witness tampering, which (in short) is intending to witness tamper and then taking a substantial step toward committing the crime of witness tampering.

Here I thought you were trying to convince us that you were not a student of laws.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

i am with you 100% here.

his trouble is, if i can interpret the negative impact of his recent actions including the half-ardsed admission as miscalculations, he keeps making more mistakes as if he's surrounded by incompetent advisors.

it truly stunned me that he went through the trouble of meeting Travis and still hoping that he can bargain out something (or impose his conditions on) this single-minded, determined and very shrewd man who outmaneuvered and outsmarted him each and every time !! likewise, it puzzled me he went on oprah not realizing the very nature of the media - that they will slaughter him for any half-ardsed admissions...likewise, misjudging betsy and placing a call to her completely ignoring that she will NEVER compromise with out the admission of the hospital room incident !...

it seems at times that armstrong has lost common sense or any elementary understanding of human nature ...perhaps he NEVER had it in him, unless it was about calculating effects of scaring someone, bullying, intimidating etc.

if so, i am glad the feds got involved in this...

It seems everyone at TailwindLieStrong got it wrong big time.

It is all coming home to roost now. Now they will know what it is like to be the chickens hearing the foxes coming.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It seems everyone at TailwindLieStrong got it wrong big time.

It is all coming home to roost now. Now they will know what it is like to be the chickens hearing the foxes coming.

If Fabiani is still working for Wonderboy, then I think chances are slim. That guy makes stuff go away.

Let's hope. It hasn't worked out so well until USADA.

 

[buckle]

Anyone who thinks this corruption will be removed by jailing Armstrong is delusional.

The whole episode is paradigmatic and Lance is clearly attempting to protect people – who? Whom does he fear? He knows he has committed an appalling fraud. Potentially he could be jailed for decades due to the scale of the swindle. This is on a par with Madoff and like Madoff, Lance must know that the entire sports World is as rigged as the financial services industry.

Lance is now left praying for a bail out similar to those offered the banks (but not to Madoff). For 15 years Lance was deemed “too big to fail”. The question we are now asking is Lance Armstrong too big to jail?

 

[D-Queued]

If Fabiani is still working for Wonderboy, then I think chances are slim. That guy makes stuff go away.

Let's hope. It hasn't worked out so well until USADA.

He completely erased 7 Tour de France titles.

Dave.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Funny, there are people on the internet creating FB and Twitter accounts in the Andreau's name RIGHT NOW and posting incredibly inflammatory things meant to make them look bad, and you harp on Betsy again? That woman took more abuse than anyone over past 13 years, and it takes a real ("jerk", ed.) to keep beating that drum.

At some point, you need to move on.

Honestly, that's the entire reason for the existence of this forum. People who can't get over stuff.

Back to Betsy:

Would I say any of that to her? No.

Do I think Lance treated her beyond badly. You bet.

Do I think her husband amplified the issue a lot by lying for 10 years about his part is this? You bet.

Do I think the level of anger she has is justified ? Yes.

Do I think it helps her to hold on to it? Absolutely not.

On her terms and with her anger, she can never be made whole. It would help her a lot to get some grief counseling, deal with what she lost and find a way to move on. That's my point.

Holding on to the anger hurts her and he doesn't give a damn so it does her no good whatever.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Honestly, that's the entire reason for the existence of this forum. People who can't get over stuff.

Back to Betsy:

Would I say any of that to her? No.

Do I think Lance treated her beyond badly. You bet.

Do I think her husband amplified the issue a lot by lying for 10 years about his part is this? You bet.

Do I think the level of anger she has is justified ? Yes.

Do I think it helps her to hold on to it? Absolutely not.

On her terms and with her anger, she can never be made whole. It would help her a lot to get some grief counseling, deal with what she lost and find a way to move on. That's my point.

Holding on to the anger hurts her and he doesn't give a damn so it does her no good whatever.

Oh...that was your point?...gosh, it was hard to tell...

 

[Aleajactaest]

Nice try.

You are spreading lies and making a personal attack on a fellow member of this forum.

These assertions about Betsy have been dismissed by Lance himself, through a public apology.

This is a thread about Lance, not about Betsy. Or Frankie.

Your apology is overdue.

Dave.

Who did I attack? Serious question. I'm not aware that I attacked any forum member in this thread.

As the thread is about criminal investigation of witness intimidation and one exemplar given by others was Betsy. It is, of necessity, about her, Tyler, Filipe and just about anyone else who crossed lance.

 

[D-Queued]

Honestly, that's the entire reason for the existence of this forum. People who can't get over stuff.

Back to Betsy:

Would I say any of that to her? No.

Do I think Lance treated her beyond badly. You bet.

Do I think her husband amplified the issue a lot by lying for 10 years about his part is this? You bet.

Do I think the level of anger she has is justified ? Yes.

Do I think it helps her to hold on to it? Absolutely not.

On her terms and with her anger, she can never be made whole. It would help her a lot to get some grief counseling, deal with what she lost and find a way to move on. That's my point.

Holding on to the anger hurts her and he doesn't give a damn so it does her no good whatever.

Make stuff up. Blame Betsy. If that fails, make more stuff up and blame Frankie. Then, make even more stuff up and blame Betsy again.

Got it.

Lance should sue Frankie and Betsy for making him dope.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

Who did I attack? Serious question. I'm not aware that I attacked any forum member in this thread.

As the thread is about criminal investigation of witness intimidation and one exemplar given by others was Betsy. It is, of necessity, about her, Tyler, Filipe and just about anyone else who crossed lance.

Bullsh!t question.

You have attacked Betsy with complete fabrications.

Now, you have added to it by claiming Frankie lied for, what was it, ten years?

Please provide us with proof of a single lie uttered by Frankie.

Dave.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Make stuff up. Blame Betsy. If that fails, make more stuff up and blame Frankie. Then, make even more stuff up and blame Betsy again.

Got it.

Lance should sue Frankie and Betsy for making him dope.

Dave.

What did I make up? I didn't blame her, I said she acts nuts and it does no good. That's different.

Did Frankie lie? Yes. Did he lie to Betsy? It's not clear to me. She acts as if she never knew he was doping which means he lied or she just did not pay attention. Either way, it made things worse. Does that justify what Lance did? No. Did it make things worse? Yes.

No one gets to sue anyone for making their own decisions. That's a specious argument intended to get a reaction. I'm not biting.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It seems as though every time a sock puppet disappears, another one (Aleajactaest) appears.

Nitwits should at least have the courtesy of not quoting Caesar.

 

[D-Queued]

What did I make up? <troll babble>...

Everything.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What did I make up? I didn't blame her, I said she acts nuts and it does no good. That's different.

Hmm, I was going to ask why you think she "acts nuts"? But....

Did Frankie lie? Yes. Did he lie to Betsy? It's not clear to me. She acts as if she never knew he was doping which means he lied or she just did not pay attention. Either way, it made things worse. Does that justify what Lance did? No. Did it make things worse? Yes.

No one gets to sue anyone for making their own decisions. That's a specious argument intended to get a reaction. I'm not biting.

...obviously you did not read Walshs book where it clearly states how Betsy found Frankies EPO after the Tour in 99.

You are not very good at judging character.