Armstrong Under Criminal Investigation

[cromagnon]

Personally I think the threat of prosecution is more likely to make Armstrong cut a deal and truly spill his guts. While he still has a lot to lose, he will continue to lie as seen in the interview.

 

[MacRoadie]

Or are there a set of rules?

Yes, there is a very clearly stated set of rules, rules which a certain banned poster and about three dozen of his sock puppets fail to follow.

 

[reginagold]

Personally I think the threat of prosecution is more likely to make Armstrong cut a deal and truly spill his guts. While he still has a lot to lose, he will continue to lie as seen in the interview.

Well....so far in his life the threat of prosecution has only made Armstrong use his lawyers and political connections to try and destroy that threat. Now maybe a serious Justice Department (FBI) inquiry that they've managed to keep under wraps until now is something beyond his powers - but at least one of his lawyers has done some magic with/to the DOJ in the past - getting Karl Rove a pass on some (alleged) serious criminal behavior.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

As a lurker on these boards considering posting here again, I've seen a poster banned for calmly stating their opinion. The poster is abused (called an "idiot") then banned (no real attempt to debate against him/her).

Is this forum the wild west now? Or are there a set of rules?

It's not that easy to get banned. The newly banned poster had -- one assumes by the speed of the ban -- been bounced before under different names.

Think of a drunk tossed from a bar, crawling back in through the window.

 

[coinneach]

It's not that easy to get banned. The newly banned poster had -- one assumes by the speed of the ban -- been bounced before under different names.

Think of a drunk tossed from a bar, crawling back in through the window.

They'd just be Horsing About, surely?

 

[reginagold]

Seems that the FDA is also continuing to investigate Armstrong. This counts as a "bad news day" for his posse.

http://www.floridatoday.com/usatoday/article/1896147

 

[cromagnon]

Well....so far in his life the threat of prosecution has only made Armstrong use his lawyers and political connections to try and destroy that threat. Now maybe a serious Justice Department (FBI) inquiry that they've managed to keep under wraps until now is something beyond his powers - but at least one of his lawyers has done some magic with/to the DOJ in the past - getting Karl Rove a pass on some (alleged) serious criminal behavior.

Yes, Marion Jones could have done with a few rottweiler lawyers like that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ah, I see. Excuse my ignorance

Not speculation, by me, but a whisper from a transatlantic contact who has..err...contacts. Word on the street is that moves are already afoot to secure everything gathered from the Novitzky investigation.

Take it with a pinch of salt by all means.

Hmmm, I don't see that happening.
I'm open to be corrected by The Clinic legal team but the story today appears to be pursuing a case against LA for witness intimidation - not a re-opening of the original investigation.

Seems that the FDA is also continuing to investigate Armstrong. This counts as a "bad news day" for his posse.

http://www.floridatoday.com/usatoday/article/1896147

Note to self:
Read to end of thread before posting.

 

[Desperate Moments]

how about Travis Tygart himself? He said on 60 minutes he was intimidated & "got the FBI looked into those threats" so........

This is what I have been asking about for weeks! And at that time, I was informed by a prominent Clinician that the case had been shelved and that if there were to be any further investigation, I would read about it here first. Well, thank you, good ole mainstream media, ABC News! Courtesy of Race Radio, of course. I mean, SOMEBODY threatened Tygart, in a very scary way, and he did say on "60 Minutes" that the FBI was looking into it. Witness tampering and intimidation are not offenses that law enforcement take lightly. So stay tuned! I know I will.

 

[reginagold]

Hmmm, I don't see that happening.
I'm open to be corrected by The Clinic legal team but the story today appears to be pursuing a case against LA for witness intimidation - not a re-opening of the original investigation.



Note to self:
Read to end of thread before posting.

To clarify a bit, today two different arms of the US Government seem to have volunteered confirmation that they are investigating Lance. First, the Department of Justice - correcting the impression created by Birotte yesterday that there was no active DOJ investigation of Lance. The DOJ investigation revealed today is not the Birotte matter shelved a year ago. It is about obstruction of justice. Second, the Food and Drug Administration says it has an ongoing investigation. These are separate matters. The FDA probably felt obligated to speak because they, while part of the government, still have an investigation going on depsite what Birotte said. I doubt there was ANY coordination between the DOJ getting the word out today about the obstruction of justice investigation and the FDA also stating they had something open on the seven time wonder. Both agencies just correcting the impression from yesterday's news cycle that US govt investigations had ceased.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Gotta love this piece by the San Francisco Bay Area's best sportswriter, Ray Ratto:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/ray-ratto/deservedly-armstrong-tops-americas-detested-athletes

"Messing with other people while playing at messiah never goes over well."

"Fraud wrapped in bullying is something we all understand, and most of us loathe."

"Armstrong managed in his colossal arrogance to be a mean-spirited cheater while painting himself as a selfless nobleman and obeyer of rules. He strongarmed and muscled and threatened and dismissed his fellow sportsman/conspirators and their friends and relations so comprehensively that the line to bring him down stretched around the block like he was the next Harry Potter book."

"Armstrong is now famous mostly for being a swine."

 

[MarkvW]

The report says that Armstrong is under investigation for obstruction, witness tampering, and intimidation. Those charges MAY just be for Armstrong's messing with the witnesses in his case, but they just might also be about investigating Armstrong for false statements made to federal investigators.

I'm still thinking that it is looking more and more like Armstrong made a full statement to Birotte in the course of Birotte's investigation.

First: We now know that Armstrong is fully capable of snitching off other dopers to get himself a break. Right now, he is sniffing around USADA, trying to cut himself a deal. If he's going to cut a deal now with USADA (which can only keep him from running triathlons and can't chuck him in jail), why wouldn't he cut a deal with the feds earlier in order to avoid a federal felony conviction.

Second: It's a fair assumption that the feds were offering all the Posties immunity in exchange for their dope testimony. Why wouldn't they have given Armstrong a similar deal? Prosecutors don't think like the haters in the Clinic. They want to be fair and appear to be fair.

Third: Obviously, Armstrong wasn't the only target of the USPS/Tailwind/Armstrong investigation. Fraud was a central part (if not the central part) of the investigation and fraud implicates not only Armstrong, but all the other Tailwind principals. Once the feds realized that they had nothing on Armstrong and were going to stop, why wouldn't they offer Armstrong an immunity deal before quitting? That way, they would at least get information against the other principals.

Fourth: Obstructing is what Martha Stewart went down on. You lie to the FBI and you get charged for obstructing . . .. There are other means of committing obstructing, though.

Fifth: It looks like the feds are quite eager to look at Mr. Armstrong and have not been bought off by "influence" or a "conspiracy." Why wouldn't they have tried to get Armstrong's testimony for the measly price of immunity?

Sixth: If Birotte took Armstrong's immunized statement, there's no way that Birotte or his office would now want to have anything to do with further investigation of Armstrong, because they gave him immunity and they'd have to prove that any new information that they got was in no way tainted by the information that Armstrong provided before they could even try to use it against Armstrong. Better to cut Birotte and his office completely out of the loop in the new investigation. Normally, you'd think that Birotte's office would be in the loop because his prosecutors are fully up to speed with all the USPS Conspiracy evidence.

The feds may very well be investigating Armstrong for messing with Tygart and Hamilton and others, but I think it's still possible that Armstrong has already snitched to the feds (and maybe lied to them) under a grant of immunity.

 

[Carols]

Agree. The Obama and Clinton camps are not friendly. If Team Obama can wreck Hillary's 2016 prez chances and Bill's influence on the Democratic party -- without leaving fingerprints -- they'll do so.

Source please!

 

[reginagold]

If DOJ thinks Birotte was tainted by influence, he'd of course be frozen out of any ongoing investigations. Today DOJ let out Lance is under investigation for obstruction of justice. Separately, the FDA confirmed they have an ongoing investigation of him. Oh, and Lance negotiated two more weeks to think about whether he'll talk to USADA and be part of the clean up. But that's no longer relevant as it's likely no lawyer on the planet would allow their client to speak under oath to USADA while not knowing everything about the cases being built by DOJ and FDA. He's kind of spun a web and now seems stuck in his own masterpiece.

 

[D-Queued]

If DOJ thinks Birotte was tainted by influence, he'd of course be frozen out of any ongoing investigations. Today DOJ let out Lance is under investigation for obstruction of justice. Separately, the FDA confirmed they have an ongoing investigation of him. Oh, and Lance negotiated two more weeks to think about whether he'll talk to USADA and be part of the clean up. But that's no longer relevant as it's likely no lawyer on the planet would allow their client to speak under oath to USADA while not knowing everything about the cases being built by DOJ and FDA. He's kind of spun a web and now seems stuck in his own masterpiece.

And quite a tangled one.

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

This is what I have been asking about for weeks! And at that time, I was informed by a prominent Clinician that the case had been shelved and that if there were to be any further investigation, I would read about it here first. Well, thank you, good ole mainstream media, ABC News! Courtesy of Race Radio, of course. I mean, SOMEBODY threatened Tygart, in a very scary way, and he did say on "60 Minutes" that the FBI was looking into it. Witness tampering and intimidation are not offenses that law enforcement take lightly. So stay tuned! I know I will.

It is not Travis. Or a rider.

Don't worry, it will all come out eventually

 

[autologous]

Third: Obviously, Armstrong wasn't the only target of the USPS/Tailwind/Armstrong investigation. Fraud was a central part (if not the central part) of the investigation and fraud implicates not only Armstrong, but all the other Tailwind principals. Once the feds realized that they had nothing on Armstrong and were going to stop, why wouldn't they offer Armstrong an immunity deal before quitting? That way, they would at least get information against the other principals.

Got a source for the bolded?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I must have missed the announcement where Birotte went into detail about why he abruptly pulled the plug.

 

[sittingbison]

...Once the feds realized that they had nothing on Armstrong and were going to stop, why wouldn't they offer Armstrong an immunity deal before quitting?...

I call BS on this.

It was Borat alone who suddenly shelved the FDA investigation with zero warning or consultation and much to the consternation of Novitsky, the invetigators and the witnesses who were imminently about to lay charges.

There is much conjecture why he did this, many believe graft and corruption are at play, political influence stemming from Fabiani going all the way through Whitewater to Breuer to Clinton

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The report says that Armstrong is under investigation for obstruction, witness tampering, and intimidation. Those charges MAY just be for Armstrong's messing with the witnesses in his case, but they just might also be about investigating Armstrong for false statements made to federal investigators.

I'm still thinking that it is looking more and more like Armstrong made a full statement to Birotte in the course of Birotte's investigation.

First: We now know that Armstrong is fully capable of snitching off other dopers to get himself a break. Right now, he is sniffing around USADA, trying to cut himself a deal. If he's going to cut a deal now with USADA (which can only keep him from running triathlons and can't chuck him in jail), why wouldn't he cut a deal with the feds earlier in order to avoid a federal felony conviction.

Second: It's a fair assumption that the feds were offering all the Posties immunity in exchange for their dope testimony. Why wouldn't they have given Armstrong a similar deal? Prosecutors don't think like the haters in the Clinic. They want to be fair and appear to be fair.

Back to ol' Mark I see.
So, what crimes have the other Posties done that they need immunity from?
Are you still ignoring that Armstrong is an owner/director of Tailwind?

Third: Obviously, Armstrong wasn't the only target of the USPS/Tailwind/Armstrong investigation. Fraud was a central part (if not the central part) of the investigation and fraud implicates not only Armstrong, but all the other Tailwind principals. Once the feds realized that they had nothing on Armstrong and were going to stop, why wouldn't they offer Armstrong an immunity deal before quitting? That way, they would at least get information against the other principals.

Fourth: Obstructing is what Martha Stewart went down on. You lie to the FBI and you get charged for obstructing . . .. There are other means of committing obstructing, though.

Fifth: It looks like the feds are quite eager to look at Mr. Armstrong and have not been bought off by "influence" or a "conspiracy." Why wouldn't they have tried to get Armstrong's testimony for the measly price of immunity?

Sixth: If Birotte took Armstrong's immunized statement, there's no way that Birotte or his office would now want to have anything to do with further investigation of Armstrong, because they gave him immunity and they'd have to prove that any new information that they got was in no way tainted by the information that Armstrong provided before they could even try to use it against Armstrong. Better to cut Birotte and his office completely out of the loop in the new investigation. Normally, you'd think that Birotte's office would be in the loop because his prosecutors are fully up to speed with all the USPS Conspiracy evidence.

The feds may very well be investigating Armstrong for messing with Tygart and Hamilton and others, but I think it's still possible that Armstrong has already snitched to the feds (and maybe lied to them) under a grant of immunity.

The rest is just wishful thinking that Birotte has given Lance a deal, so that they can go after the real fraudsters? Right?

 

[Jeremiah]

uh, yeah,

Got a source for the bolded?

I call BS on this.

Back to ol' Mark I see.

Are you still ignoring that Armstrong is an owner/director of Tailwind?

The rest is just wishful thinking that Birotte has given Lance a deal, so that they can go after the real fraudsters? Right?

 

[MarkvW]

Got a source for the bolded?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I must have missed the announcement where Birotte went into detail about why he abruptly pulled the plug.

Your ignorance is excused.

 

[MarkvW]

Back to ol' Mark I see.
So, what crimes have the other Posties done that they need immunity from?
Are you still ignoring that Armstrong is an owner/director of Tailwind?


The rest is just wishful thinking that Birotte has given Lance a deal, so that they can go after the real fraudsters? Right?

I'm just saying it's possible. Why terminate an investigation without hearing what Lance has to say?

 

[BroDeal]

I'm just saying it's possible. Why terminate an investigation without hearing what Lance has to say?

Why would Birotte terminate an investigation without hearing what the investigators have to say? Yet he did. Clearly he did not care about the facts of the case.

 

[MarkvW]

Why would Birotte terminate an investigation without hearing what the investigators have to say? Yet he did. Clearly he did not care about the facts of the case.

He had all their reports. What more did he need to hear?

And why scapegoat Birotte? We now know that the Justice Dep't is NOT Lance-shy.

 

[Maxiton]

This goes beyond "the Sport". We are supposed to have laws in the USA, regardless of if you are involved in any sport. Justice is the most important thing, not the image of some (or any) sport.


EDIT: read rest of this thread, appears I responded to another BPC type of poster before realizing it. If the "logic" this poster used to justify Lance's action, we would live in a brutal Darwinian type of society where you could be above the law, as long as you were entertaining the masses. Sick. .

See: pro cycling.