Armstrong warns all his rivals!

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Nov 17, 2009
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Publicus said:
I'm looking at the ITT in the 2010 Tour de France and I'm just not sure if Sanchez has the motor to pull that off. I've not done a enough research on his past performances in rolling (but not mountainous) time trials of this distance, so there is that caveat. But I do recognize that he is a much better climber than Lance. If that wasn't clear from my original comment, then that was my error.
To be honest, I'm not sure he is a much better climber then Lance.

I'm not saying Lance is better or that they're even... I'm saying there really isn't enough information to say one way or the other for me. There weren't many guys who both rode for the GC in the Tour and the Vuelta... the only one of consequence was Cadel, and he was near the top in the Vuelta and not in contention in the Tour.

Now I'm not saying that means everything... but it shows that a strong performance in the Vuelta doesn't necessarily mean you are capable of a strong performance against the riders in the Tour. The Vuelta is an easier race... I mean Tom Danielson (not an elite climber) was in the top 10 with a lung infection before being forced to withdraw. You can't convince me that Danielson in his most peak condition would finish top 25 at the Tour.
 
Susan Westemeyer said:
Agreed. This is not acceptable. There are other ways to disagree with what someone has written.

Susan
OK, I do not want to drag this thing along, but I think a little clarity is in order.

Earlier, Big GMaC stated something to the effect that instead of pseudo-psychological crap, it should be psychological crap. As I agreed with the Carbone One on this one point, that the post that was being referred to was some form of crap, I "fixed" it from pseudo-psychological to psychological.

The irony here was that what I said was not in disagreement with Karbonator! The one (and likely only) time I agree with this poster on something, almost supportively, and add a tweek of humour to it, I get basically yelled at by him/her!

On a final note - I believe misquoting someone for humerous effect without trying to make them look bad, and stating you have 'fixed it', is common on many a forum.

So, Karbone, I once again think you need to revisit having some bran and chilling out a bit. You are clearly one bound up poster. :D
 
Mar 18, 2009
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kurtinsc said:
To be honest, I'm not sure he is a much better climber then Lance.

I'm not saying Lance is better or that they're even... I'm saying there really isn't enough information to say one way or the other for me. There weren't many guys who both rode for the GC in the Tour and the Vuelta... the only one of consequence was Cadel, and he was near the top in the Vuelta and not in contention in the Tour.

Now I'm not saying that means everything... but it shows that a strong performance in the Vuelta doesn't necessarily mean you are capable of a strong performance against the riders in the Tour. The Vuelta is an easier race... I mean Tom Danielson (not an elite climber) was in the top 10 with a lung infection before being forced to withdraw. You can't convince me that Danielson in his most peak condition would finish top 25 at the Tour.
Fail.

Evans had a bad Tour so comparing his Tour and Vuelta climbing performances is worthless. After the TTT he was out of contention for the Tour, and was not motivated at all. The previous two years Evans was one of the top climbers at the Tour.

Tommy D., when his is in form (which is not often), is a great climber and could easily finish top 25 in the Tour (assuming he can make it to the end without getting sick).
 
BroDeal said:
Tommy D., when his is in form (which is not often), is a great climber and could easily finish top 25 in the Tour (assuming he can make it to the end without getting sick).
I agree in essence with what you have said, just to add that this latter aspect has never happened yet - the dude always gets sick or injured!
 
Nov 17, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Fail.

Evans had a bad Tour so comparing his Tour and Vuelta climbing performances is worthless. After the TTT he was out of contention for the Tour, and was not motivated at all. The previous two years Evans was one of the top climbers at the Tour.

Tommy D., when his is in form (which is not often), is a great climber and could easily finish top 25 in the Tour (assuming he can make it to the end without getting sick).
The point is that saying Sanchez is a better climber then Lance because of what he did in the Vuelta is foolish... he's finished in the top 3 of the Vuelta before, but I believe his top TDF finish is 6th or 7th.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think a podium at the Vuelta is just as hard as a podium at the Tour. You have to be much better to do that at the tour... because the level of competition is much higher. I can't see any hard evidence that Sammy was a better climber then Lance last year. There's basically no data on it... and if we're going to compare 3rd at the TDF to 2nd at the Vuelta... I'll take the Tour result.


As for Danielson... sorry, I don't buy it. I kept waiting and waiting and waiting for something from him. I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. He got a 6th and a 7th in the Vuelta... and I've come to the conclusion that doesn't mean all that much. It's the equivalent of 20th or so at the Tour.
 
kurtinsc said:
The point is that saying Sanchez is a better climber then Lance because of what he did in the Vuelta is foolish... he's finished in the top 3 of the Vuelta before, but I believe his top TDF finish is 6th or 7th.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think a podium at the Vuelta is just as hard as a podium at the Tour. You have to be much better to do that at the tour... because the level of competition is much higher. I can't see any hard evidence that Sammy was a better climber then Lance last year. There's basically no data on it... and if we're going to compare 3rd at the TDF to 2nd at the Vuelta... I'll take the Tour result.


As for Danielson... sorry, I don't buy it. I kept waiting and waiting and waiting for something from him. I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. He got a 6th and a 7th in the Vuelta... and I've come to the conclusion that doesn't mean all that much. It's the equivalent of 20th or so at the Tour.
Let me ask this: do you think Lance is a better climber than Joaquim Rodriguez?
 
Apr 17, 2009
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Ripper said:
I agree in essence with what you have said, just to add that this latter aspect has never happened yet - the dude always gets sick or injured!
Plus he needs some work on his mental toughness. He struggled with the pressure of being the Great White Hope to take the throne of the immortal Armstrong :rolleyes: and possibly mentally cracked.

Take it with whatever your personal opinion of JV is, but Cycle Sport (republished in Cycling Weekly) has an interesting interpretation of Danielson: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/436522/jonathan-vaughters-on-the-enigmatic-tom-danielson.html
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Publicus said:
Sanchez is 140. Contador is 136. And word on the street is Lance is 156 (the lowest reported weight of his career).
None of this means squat unless you also know their core temperatures.
 
BroDeal said:
Tommy D., when his is in form (which is not often), is a great climber and could easily finish top 25 in the Tour (assuming he can make it to the end without getting sick).
Tom Danielson has a contract with a Pro Tour team through the grace of a higher power unbeknownst to me.

He has not and never will do anything of consequence at any race on the European calendar against any of the heavy hitters of pro cycling.

Especially races before the Tour in July. After the Tour, it's always a matter of luck and opportunity that he may catch a race where everyone is already burned out. That is the only scenario I see him having a decent one-day run.

After that it will be the same-one excuse after another. But he's welcome to remain the king of Mount Evans-isn't that where he cememts his reputation as the greatest climber in team training camp history?

Publicus said:
And word on the street is Lance is 156 (the lowest reported weight of his career).
The word on the street from whom? I'm out on the street every day and haven't heard that one. Actually, I hear it at least once a year from Chris Carmichael, and who in their right mind would believe him?

Armstrong never raced below 165 lbs., and it has always been closer to 170-175 lbs. Supposedly he was around this weight(156 lbs.) last year, yet he looked so bloated from all the HGH that 180lbs. seemed more likely.

His weight, resting heart rate and VO2 max and watts per kilo are the biggest myths surrounding his astounding feats. You'll never see the actual numbers as long as you live.
 
Jan 6, 2010
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hmm, last year, as the *parcours* went, the Vuelta was clearly the harder race; and it was only the lack of Contador and a few others which possibly let it down on the "competition" issue.
The TDF top 10 (nay, top 5) was basically decided on the TTT last year - hardly exactly the strength of the *individual* is it?
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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Berzin said:
After that it will be the same-one excuse after another. But he's welcome to remain the king of Mount Evans-isn't that where he cememts his reputation as the greatest climber in team training camp history?

His weight, resting heart rate and VO2 max and watts per kilo are the biggest myths surrounding his astounding feats. You'll never see the actual numbers as long as you live.
Just like you'll never see such numbers for Contador, Schleck, Evans. Vino, etc.

We'll never know how the worlds best climber might fair on Mt. Evans seeing that they are tied up in July but it would be interesting. I've been up there. It's nothing to laugh at. The road ends at 13,800 ft. I did the easy boulder to boulder climb to the top at 14,260 as a young man and thought my heart was going to burst.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
Just like you'll never see such numbers for Contador, Schleck, Evans. Vino, etc.

We'll never know how the worlds best climber might fair on Mt. Evans seeing that they are tied up in July but it would be interesting. I've been up there. It's nothing to laugh at. The road ends at 13,800 ft. I did the easy boulder to boulder climb to the top at 14,260 as a young man and thought my heart was going to burst.
get a copy of the recent ride magazine which compare evans and armstrong's physiology. you may be surprised.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
Just like you'll never see such numbers for Contador, Schleck, Evans. Vino, etc.

We'll never know how the worlds best climber might fair on Mt. Evans seeing that they are tied up in July but it would be interesting. I've been up there. It's nothing to laugh at. The road ends at 13,800 ft. I did the easy boulder to boulder climb to the top at 14,260 as a young man and thought my heart was going to burst.
Wow! You have a conniption when someone changes your words when quoting you in a response and then you do something similar? That's rich.

The first part concerns Tom D., while the second part concerns Armstrong.

Get it together, please. :)
 
Berzin said:
Tom Danielson has a contract with a Pro Tour team through the grace of a higher power unbeknownst to me.

He has not and never will do anything of consequence at any race on the European calendar against any of the heavy hitters of pro cycling.

Especially races before the Tour in July. After the Tour, it's always a matter of luck and opportunity that he may catch a race where everyone is already burned out. That is the only scenario I see him having a decent one-day run.

After that it will be the same-one excuse after another. But he's welcome to remain the king of Mount Evans-isn't that where he cememts his reputation as the greatest climber in team training camp history?

The word on the street from whom? I'm out on the street every day and haven't heard that one. Actually, I hear it at least once a year from Chris Carmichael, and who in their right mind would believe him?

Armstrong never raced below 165 lbs., and it has always been closer to 170-175 lbs. Supposedly he was around this weight(156 lbs.) last year, yet he looked so bloated from all the HGH that 180lbs. seemed more likely.

His weight, resting heart rate and VO2 max and watts per kilo are the biggest myths surrounding his astounding feats. You'll never see the actual numbers as long as you live.
According to the Team Radio Shack website he's a slim and trim 71 kg, which if my math is correct converts to 156.2 lbs. Don't know what that is in stones.
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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LeonG2010 said:
"You're full of pseudo psychological crap".
This remark is a subjective one and displays possible insecurity. It is not an argument. Most people here can see this comment for what it is.

I have exemplified some of my statements to demonstrate some sides of LA's personality which are based on my own work in educational psychology and character analysis. These are my perspectives which I do not claim to be infallible. However, your comment can hardly be taken seriously.

It would be better if you discuss my post point by point where you believe it is not a psychological observation.

Some members such as Mellow Velo are far more objective in their replies.[/QUOTE]

I new it. I knew this was coming. It was perfectly obvious that soon rather than later you were going to claim that your credentialed background should give more weight to you opinions.

You use a word like narcissism a couple of times, tell us he's an egocentric Type A personality and now give me the 'ol "trust me, I'm a doctor" routine. He's puerile you say? I think your opinions outran your vocabulary. His personality is in no way puerile.

I'm not impressed.
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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LeonG2010 said:
"You're full of pseudo psychological crap".

This remark is a subjective one and displays possible insecurity. It is not an argument. Most people here can see this comment for what it is.

I have exemplified some of my statements to demonstrate some sides of LA's personality which are based on my own work in educational psychology and character analysis. These are my perspectives which I do not claim to be infallible. However, your comment can hardly be taken seriously.

It would be better if you discuss my post point by point where you believe it is not a psychological observation.

Some members such as Mellow Velo are far more objective in their replies.
I new it. I knew this was coming. It was perfectly obvious that sooner rather than later you were going to make some lame claim that your credentialed background should give more weight to you opinions.

You use a word like narcissism a couple of times, tell us he's an egocentric Type A personality and now give me the 'ol "trust me, I'm a doctor" routine. He's puerile you say? I think your opinions outran your vocabulary. His personality is in no way puerile.

I'm not impressed.
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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LeonG2010 said:
Galic Ho said:
WTF? Samu came second in the Vuelta! His chrono was as good if not better than any of the other GC riders there. Plus he fell in the second week. Basso is overrated.

Climbers in order:
1. Contador
2. Andy Schleck
3. Frank Schleck, may drop in the final week down to 5 and 6 riders form.
4. Carlos Sastre, if he is on form. He won't be because he will win the Giro.
4. Samu and Valverde
5. Evans, Menchov, and maybe Levi.
6. Vino, Lance, Kloden, Vandevelde and Basso without broken bones
7. Wiggins, Nibali, Kreuziger, LLS and Gesink

This is an interesting set of expectations - One or two comments.

a. Don't you think that Bradley Wiggins will be an even more improved version of the 2009 edition to merit higher expectations than this?
b. Sanchez may well slip back in the third week.
c. I could be wrong but I feel Basso's best days are over.

While LA states he is better than last year so will all those young greats AC, F & AS who still have room for improvement, especially the Schlecks with ITTs. Also, Frank will not have a recurring pain in his knee as he had for much of last season.
LeonG2010
you are mangling the quote function somehow.
maybe you should preview before you post
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
get a copy of the recent ride magazine which compare evans and armstrong's physiology. you may be surprised.
I would be surprised if it contained any real figures on weight, watts and the like.

It sounds of interest but I'm not running right out to get a copy.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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LeonG2010 said:
This is an interesting set of expectations - One or two comments.

a. Don't you think that Bradley Wiggins will be an even more improved version of the 2009 edition to merit higher expectations than this?
b. Sanchez may well slip back in the third week.
c. I could be wrong but I feel Basso's best days are over.

While LA states he is better than last year so will all those young greats AC, F & AS who still have room for improvement, especially the Schlecks with ITTs. Also, Frank will not have a recurring pain in his knee as he had for much of last season.
To answer your points:
a) No. Not by much. His team is not as good and he will have to do it alone. Double whamy is they know he's coming. They didn't in 2009. To shorten a long discussion, cause there is a lot to talk about regarding Wiggins, I've been saying on this forum for months that Wiggins won't be much better. He'll suffer like Lance will when the others (Evans, Menchov and Sastre) don't drop the ball and Samu and Valverde actually race. 2009 was far more open than 2010.

b) Samu gets stronger in a 3 week Tour. Not by much but he does. If he is already up there in the first two weeks, I'd be very concerned if he was near me on GC.

c) Ditto. I agree. I though the team would be best served sending him to the Vuelta, but alas, its the Giro and Tour. Liquigas I think are aiming for the Giro and Vuelta, firstly with Pellizotti and then with Nibali or Kreuziger at the Vuelta.

Your last comment I also agree with. Andy was 15, maybe 20 seconds behind Lance in the final ITT at Annecy in 2009. Lance himself dropped 1:45 or so to Contador. Andy improves more than he does. Frank improves over 2008 in 2009 with his ITT, so I see that happening again. But he won't set the road alight with his power. If Nibali improves, he could move up next to Lance and Kloden, because he was near them in the mountains, whilst loosing a little time and also in the final ITT he was 5 seconds back on Andy Schleck. Considering all things equal, if he improves by the same margin as Andy, he'll be equal, or near enough overall to Lance. Not sure what to make of Wiggins and Vandevelde. I think Christian can top 10, somewhere near 8th and Brad can to if he flogs himself. Just too many unknowns with both.

@Publicus. Agree on Sanchez being a better climber than Lance. My list was for climbing ability. ITT. Well he won't be near Lance. If he'd have raced last year, I'd say he'd have been near Wiggins, Cadel and LLS in the 45 seconds to a minute in arrears. This years ITT is flat, but it isn't too long, at only 40km. I have a feeling that the mountains will determine more this year. The ITT may settle 3-5 on GC, but that should be it, which given whom I think will be there, indicates they are fairly even on form. If Lance wants to finish on the podium, he needs to be able to do what Levi can in the ITT. I don't see him improving his terrible form last year by a big enough margin.

@Kurtsinc. Do you realise by saying that Lance climbed better in the Tour than Sanchez did in the Vuelta that you are comparing apples and oranges? If Lance had skipped the Tour and raced the Vuelta, would he have podiumed? I don't think so. 4th at best. You are also subtly suggesting that Lance climbed better than the winner of the Vuelta, Valverde, because Sanchez and Valverde were almost equal in the Vuelta. Heck I'll drag it further and state that you are suggesting both the Schleck's and possibly Kloden (whom all climbed better than Lance in the Tour) could have won the Vuelta. Ridiculous? I think so. Until Lance shows his 2001 form (he won't and cannot because he lost it long ago) then it remains to be seen whether he could match the accelerations and tempo some of the Spaniards can put down when in top form. I'll believe it when I see it. He might outperform one, but not all of them.

BroDeal and Publicus mentioned Tommy D. He can top 25 at the Tour if he gets his diet sorted out. I'm extending a lot of faith to Vaughters there and trusting he wasn't telling whoppers last year concerning Toms dietary problems.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Publicus said:
I'm looking at the ITT in the 2010 Tour de France and I'm just not sure if Sanchez has the motor to pull that off. I've not done a enough research on his past performances in rolling (but not mountainous) time trials of this distance, so there is that caveat. But I do recognize that he is a much better climber than Lance. If that wasn't clear from my original comment, then that was my error.
I agree. sanchez doesn't have a big tt motor for the flat long tt's. He's a good technical tt rider. I feel that's why AC will lose a fair bit too some other gc guys as the final tt is really not to his liking at all. Especially if there's a headwind and you have some guys within 2 minutes of him who can tt.
 

Carboncrank

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Jul 27, 2009
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UpTheRoad said:
Wow! You have a conniption when someone changes your words when quoting you in a response and then you do something similar? That's rich.

The first part concerns Tom D., while the second part concerns Armstrong.

Get it together, please. :)
I didn't change anybody's words. I edited out things I was not responding to.

It's common practice.
 

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