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Gee333 said:And are any of us his accountant? How does anyone know how much he does or doesn't donate to his foundation?
BroDeal said:We do know that his foundation has one of the worst efficiency percentages of any similar charity. 45% apparently goes to high salaries and high living. When I give money for a cause, I expect it to pay for the cause not for some jerk's luxury hotel and traveling expenses. I also do not expect people associated with the chartity to use it to personally enrich themselves.
mwbyrd said:I mean, you are making the assumption that Armstrong didn't donate any of his appearance/speaking money to Livestrong. Do you know for sure that all of the money is in his personal bank account?
mwbyrd said:How has he been deceitful?
mwbyrd said:Cancer is mentioned everytime his name comes up.
mwbyrd said:The problem is that so many 'arm chair quarterbacks' want to discredit LA. For what? What has he done to personally harm them? NOTHING.
TRDean said:does every poor sap think that if you are rich you should donate everything you make to charity?
TRDean said:He has done more for cancer research than any pitiful soul on this board, quite possibly the world.
TRDean said:I also don't think that his comeback has been a failure, quite the opposite. 12th place in a grand tour at his age and time away after the crash and fracture. We should all be so lucky to ride like that. I am no Lance lover or appologist, but I do think that he is doing wonders for his cause...and who really cares about political ambitions? Is that such a terrible thing? I think not. In some peoples eyes he will never be in the right.
slowoldman said:As far as the book is concerned, truth or not, they are making money off of Armstrong. Why don't they donate all of their profits to cancer research? Would they be willing? I think it would bolster their claims against Armstrong, but do you think they may be doing this for (gasp) monetary gains?
elapid said:He is being deceitful because he claims to be returning to the peloton to raise cancer awareness and then 1. does not raise cancer awareness, and 2. doesn't use the funds he gains from returning to the peloton to raise cancer awareness for his cancer foundation. That's deceitful. If he had never said he was returning to raise cancer awareness, then I wouldn't care what he did with the appearance fees. However, he did and that makes concerns over his appearance fees valid.
Cancer is not mentioned everytime Armstrong's name is mentioned. It would be lucky to be 1% of the time his name is mentioned. Did you read the reports of the TDU, TOC, Gila, and the Giro; watch the Giro on Universal? Close to nada on cancer awareness, Livestrong Foundation or anything else whenever Armstrong's name was mentioned.....
No, not at all. But when you say your return to the peloton is to promote cancer awareness and you don't promote cancer awareness or use the proceeds of returning to the peloton to promote cancer awareness, then you leave yourself open to criticism.
All due respect, but this is rubbish. You're just listening to the squeeky wheel. I work with cancer patients and in cancer research, and I can say this is completely untrue. However, I don't want to belittle his efforts and think the aims and achievements of Livestrong are admirable and praiseworthy.
As I said in my previous post, I try to take each person on their merits. I agree with you, I think 12th in a GT at 37 years of age, regardless of the collarbone fracture is a fantastic effort. I also couldn't care less about his political ambitions. I think he has done a lot of good things, but as stated above, I do not think he has raised cancer awareness during his comeback and I think it is wrong not to donate his appearance fees to Livestrong because this is the money he has received to appear on his comeback trail to raise cancer awareness. I think it is hyocritical not to do this.
slowoldman said:As far as earning 2 million for 3 weeks work. That is a falacy, he wouldn't have received that appearance money if he had not performed like he has over the years (doping or not, that is another argument) and the publicity he has brought to the race. You need to breakdown that 2 million over hours trained and raced to win what he has to objectively qualify it's worth.
slowoldman said:elapid, first, if you work with cancer patients you are an angel. My family has been devastated by the beast. I helped care for my mom as she lost her battle to it, I have never had to deal with anything so hard in my life. Thank you wholehearedly for your work.
With regard to Armstrong not helping with cancer awareness. That is just not true, did he not meet with Australian politicians and visit the hospitals to see cancer patients? He announced plans for the Livestrong Global Campaign, or at least reiterated them. He has plans to meet with politicians all over the world at a conference in Paris after the Tour. He is not perfect by any means, in fact I don't really care for some of his personality traits (never been a big fan of arrogance) as well as those pesky doping rumors. His celebrity affords him an audience most will never receive and he is, to his credit, trying to use it for some good.
elapid said:Agree with you 100%. I think I said it in a previous post, what Armstrong does with Livestrong is truly admirable and praiseworthy. Yes, he did do everything you said while in Australia. But, and maybe this is being over-critical, on a personal level he is not raising cancer awareness. He twitters every day, but very few are telling cycling fans about cancer. With so many worthy causes out there, it's the kind of thing that you need to batter down the door everyday to raise people's awareness. However, giving credit where credit is due, may be he is concentrating his efforts on the big fish (governments and politicians) who have more power and money to make things happen more than your middle class individual. In regards to appearance money, I think you know where I stand on that.
slowoldman said:Not wrong. He would have never received the offer in the first place if he didn't do the things he did in the past, period.
BikeCentric said:You fail Economics 101. What does this (correct) sentence of yours have to do with allocating the $2 million in Giro earnings over his past investment of time? The answer is nothing.
You are of course correct in your above sentence, but you are incorrect in your attempt to allocate the $2 million earned over his past investment in cycling. The point is simply that the prior investment is not applicable to the decision which is: race the Giro and collect $2million or look for "more lucrative opportunities."
slowoldman said:Actually I received an A grade in Economics 101, that was twenty five years ago though. My premise, is that you would have to credit past effort with the ability to make present income if in fact the present ability is based upon the past performance, which it is.
flyor64 said:For what it's worth:
From CBS Sports - 18 January 2009 http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/13030274
Armstrong has been paid an unspecified appearance fee from the state government, with Australian media reporting that it will eventually total one million Australian dollars, or $665,690.
"I'm not going to discuss that," Rann said. "All I can say is the benefits massively outweigh the costs and that's even before the race begins."
Armstrong did not specify the amount of his fee but said on Saturday that, contrary to what had been reported here last week, he was not donating the fee to his foundation but treating it as income: just as he has his other speaking and appearance fees since retirement.
"It's not simply showing up to a bike race and getting paid to race the bike," he said. "I'm not being paid to race. Is there a fee for other things? Yes but that's not any different than what I've done the last three or four years, actually longer than that."
And from PEZ Cycling News http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=6691
While there were rumours last week about just how much appearance money the seven times Tour winner received for making the trip to Australia, he has put some of the cash straight back into the local community, making a $100,000 donation to the Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre, based in Melbourne, who specialise in research into how the disease affects young people. (Just in case you were wondering, the balance of the appearance fee will be going to the Lance Armstrong Foundation and directly to the fight against cancer.)
Mellow Velo said:You make him sound like Mother Teresa.
A general question:
If he's pocketing money that any donator may believe is destined for charity, is that not fraud?
That Giro roads, I agree, are relatively obscure, to many followers of "the man".