Armstrong's Future

[VeloCity]

Yet Pantani's history is cleaner than Lance's. That's a fact.

Though that may be due to the fact that there was no EPO test until 2001, ie well after Pantani's best days and biggest successes, and with his death in 2004, not much point in anyone coming forward with any further doping allegations against him. But I have little doubt that if his career had come a bit later on and if he hadn't passed on so tragically, he'd be as deep in the doping mire as Armstrong is. I'm as big a fan of Pantani's as there ever was - still am, actually - but I have no illusions about whether or not he was ever clean. He wasn't.

 

[Rip:30]

yeah those samples from 1999,he didnt want to have them retested because he was afraid they werent maintained properly...he has good lawyers obviously

you have any idea since when he s clean?

*** deletd by mod ***

 

[Oldman]

Oh I don't know about that, he may keep one or two steroids to tick over... it's not just hard work that goes into producing a body to seduce an Olsen twin with.

He'd a gone for the pair if he had a pair.

 

[Polish]

Paris - Nice
And of course hes never won the tour of california, so hes actually only won one of the four grand tours.. pretty poor when you consider him against other legends

Poor when you compare him against the Legends?
WaaWaaWaa.

Well, lets compare him against Team Sky...

When will the combined palamares for the ENTIRE Team Sky match the results of INDIVIDUAL Lance? Let me answer for you.....N E V E R.

Dope them Donkeys to the gills....still never, sorry

Lance is AWESOME.

 

[Anonymous]

Poor when you compare him against the Legends?
WaaWaaWaa.

Well, lets compare him against Team Sky...

When will the combined palamares for the ENTIRE Team Sky match the results of INDIVIDUAL Lance? Let me answer for you.....N E V E R.

Dope them Donkeys to the gills....still never, sorry

Lance is AWESOME.

lol.. that was purely in response to the statement that lance has won everything there is to win, which clearly to the intelligent observer he hasnt.

and no, you are correct.. Lance has never won Het Volk, hes also never made the podium at roubaix.. oh hang on, he hasnt even got the guts to ride roubaix. I believe id be right to say hes never worn the leaders jersey in the giro either, or a stage in paris-nice.

apples and oranges.. and like many posts in this thread, completely and utterly irrelevant

I think i have just worked out who wonderlance is though. Took me a while

 

[red_flanders]

Though that may be due to the fact that there was no EPO test until 2001, ie well after Pantani's best days and biggest successes, and with his death in 2004, not much point in anyone coming forward with any further doping allegations against him. But I have little doubt that if his career had come a bit later on and if he hadn't passed on so tragically, he'd be as deep in the doping mire as Armstrong is. I'm as big a fan of Pantani's as there ever was - still am, actually - but I have no illusions about whether or not he was ever clean. He wasn't.

I'm with you, of course.

 

[Jonathan]

Whereas Lance was CONFIRMED to have EPO in his blood. No suggestion, no question, CONFIRMED to have 6 (or 8) positive results for EPO.

That both are/were dopers in not in doubt. Yet Pantani's history is cleaner than Lance's. That's a fact.

The thing with Pantani was that his medical data from the day he had crashed in Milan-Turin was interpreted in court. The conclusion was that his hematocrit fluctuations could only be explained by doping use, but that it was not against the law at the time because Italy did not yet have a law against sporting fraud. Interestingly, the fact that the data was not gathered specifically for doping investigations didn't seem to matter. Point is, the judge confirmed he had doped in that race.

As far as I'm aware, France did not have a law against sporting fraud in 1999, and still doesn't. But if they tried the same with Armstrong as with Pantani, there could be a formal confirmation that the tests on the samples from 1999 show he doped. This never happened, so for Pantani there is something resembling a formal positive test (albeit for a race in which he crashed) but for Armstrong there isn't.

Pantani's 1999 hematocrit levels did not constitute a positive test.

 

[mikkemus23]

I think LA has realised that the comeback was a biiig mistake. It has possibly ruined his legacy (with fanboys - the rest of us already knew) and his chances of public office, should he had considered that.

I really really hope this time we will get full exposure of both LA and the UCI.

 

[Roland Rat]

I think LA has realised that the comeback was a biiig mistake. It has possibly ruined his legacy (with fanboys - the rest of us already knew) and his chances of public office, should he had considered that.

I really really hope this time we will get full exposure of both LA and the UCI.

Yup. In terms of sporting comebacks, this has to be one of the most spectacular failures in the history of sporting comebacks since Achilles came out of retirement following heel surgery. He could have enjoyed his days swilling beer and porking teenage girls but instead he:

- gets spanked all over the Tour by Contador, while being a complete muppet though the press destroying his public image;

- gets involved in a ridiculous spat with the Giro organisers, and a press black-out;

- starts demanding ridiculous appearance fees when on the premise of "promoting cancer awareness"

and finally:

- gets spanked all over the press by FLandis, followed by a retort so pathetic even his fanboys are left confused, before potentially bringing down the UCI and a few other associates with him and maybe even the threat of jail time.

Gotta say, good work Lance, genius decision.

 

[frenchfry]

I think LA has realised that the comeback was a biiig mistake. It has possibly ruined his legacy (with fanboys - the rest of us already knew) and his chances of public office, should he had considered that.

I really really hope this time we will get full exposure of both LA and the UCI.

He's laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Ferminal]

The thing with Pantani was that his medical data from the day he had crashed in Milan-Turin was interpreted in court. The conclusion was that his hematocrit fluctuations could only be explained by doping use, but that it was not against the law at the time because Italy did not yet have a law against sporting fraud. Interestingly, the fact that the data was not gathered specifically for doping investigations didn't seem to matter. Point is, the judge confirmed he had doped in that race.

As far as I'm aware, France did not have a law against sporting fraud in 1999, and still doesn't. But if they tried the same with Armstrong as with Pantani, there could be a formal confirmation that the tests on the samples from 1999 show he doped. This never happened, so for Pantani there is something resembling a formal positive test (albeit for a race in which he crashed) but for Armstrong there isn't.

Pantani's 1999 hematocrit levels did not constitute a positive test.

Harmon was talking about The Pirate the other day and was saying how he polarizes views because the way he rode, and as a result of his "doping convictions". It's sad to see the deceased aren't afforded the same skeptical approach as those currently riding.

 

[mikkemus23]

Yup. In terms of sporting comebacks, this has to be one of the most spectacular failures in the history of sporting comebacks since Achilles came out of retirement following heel surgery. He could have enjoyed his days swilling beer and porking teenage girls but instead he:

- gets spanked all over the Tour by Contador, while being a complete muppet though the press destroying his public image;

- gets involved in a ridiculous spat with the Giro organisers, and a press black-out;

- starts demanding ridiculous appearance fees when on the premise of "promoting cancer awareness"

and finally:

- gets spanked all over the press by FLandis, followed by a retort so pathetic even his fanboys are left confused, before potentially bringing down the UCI and a few other associates with him and maybe even the threat of jail time.

Gotta say, good work Lance, genius decision.

Very well put, sir

This should be the end of the "no positives" defence.

By the way, has Lance been asked to comment on Levi`s positive from `96?

 

[Roland Rat]

He's laughing all the way to the bank.

Maybe he is now, but in the long term he'll lose. Massively. After we all expected him to try politics, he ain't got a hope in hell of any kind of future career now. How much does Barry Bonds make these days...

 

[Anonymous]

Harmon was talking about The Pirate the other day and was saying how he polarizes views because the way he rode, and as a result of his "doping convictions". It's sad to see the deceased aren't afforded the same skeptical approach as those currently riding.

I think to many Pantani was someone whos riding style appealed, but also a unfortunate hero, a rider who drugs controlled, and whos life eventually spiralled downhill because of it. Lance on the other hand is firmly in control of his doping habit. There are a lot of reasons why pantani took drugs and that spilled over into his personal and social life. Lance uses drugs purely for winning and attempting to dominate the sport.

For me its about movitation. Pantani just wanted to win races and be liked. Armstrong wanted domination and control. Pantani was the guy at the party who likes to smoke a bit and be everybodys freind. Lance was the guy in the toilets dealing the hard stuff and trying to get everybody hooked and controlling them.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Maybe he is now, but in the long term he'll lose. Massively. After we all expected him to try politics, he ain't got a hope in hell of any kind of future career now. How much does Barry Bonds make these days...

Back in the day, and I can't recall if it was LBJ or Nixon that's beside the point, take political discussions where they belong, Johnny Carson did a joke about one of them.

At that point the President knew he was finished. It isn't quite the same with guys like Leno and especially Letterman because they can be nasty and personal but Carson was more mainstream and wouldn't jump in until the corpse had flies around it.

My point is, when he starts becoming punchlines of jokes that anyone (not us kooky cycling fans) can relate to, THAT is when the fall is complete.

No one has to like golf to know a few good Tiger Woods jokes.

 

[Black-Balled]

General Classification
(1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005)
22 Individual Stages
World Cycling Champion (1993)
US National Cycling Champion (1993)
Clásica de San Sebastián (1995)
La Flèche Wallonne (1996)
Tour de Suisse (2001)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (2002, 2003)


What else is there to win besides giro and the vuelta hes won some of the best races there is to win in the sport...

Agreed. That 1993 World's win was particularly BADAZZ!

 

[euanli]

If Armstrong cared about the 1993 Worlds he would obviously be proudly displacing the Rainbow bands on his jersey

 

[Anonymous]

If Armstrong cared about the 1993 Worlds he would obviously be proudly displacing the Rainbow bands on his jersey

Do those come in solid yellow?

 

[euanli]

There are colours other than yellow?

 

[luigiV]

Agreed. That 1993 World's win was particularly BADAZZ!

Yep 93 was a bad **** win...one of the best races to watch in my opppinion, but a lot hated him for that win also even the way he cellebrated his win people said... ''''well well who does this guy actually think he is''''

 

[luigiV]

Agreed. That 1993 World's win was particularly BADAZZ!

Armstrong has had way more money than any other cyclist in history. His sponsorship deals were huge. I live in Texas just a short drive from him. His wasteful and ostentatious wealth is well known around here, as is his utter disregard for his neighbors. What kind of a person uses 330 thousand gallons of water a month to sustain lawns, palm trees, and swimming pools in central Texas? Lance Armstrong, that's who. [to give you an idea, my wife and I used less than 3 thousand gallons last month] The point is, the man has huge financial resources, far beyond those of any other cyclist, and the reason he has those resources is his ability to create a narrative that is attractive to the US public: cancer victim heroically recovers to defeat the decadent Europeans at their own game.

I don't believe that if Armstrong has to admit to doping, his career will go down the tubes. What about the following narrative:
"I did it for the cancer victims. I realized that with doping, I could win races and attract attention to an important cause. My TdF victories attracted attention to my foundation and my foundation has saved thousands of lives. That's why I did it: to save lives. And I've saved lives. I apologize for lying and ask for forgiveness. I will continue to battle to help people who are suffering from cancer. Please join me in this ongoing fight."

Of course, his public relations crew is exponentially better than I am.

well said...very well said


'clock is ticking'

 

[luigiV]

Compare to:

5 x Tour de France
2 x Giro D'Italia
1 x World Time-Trial Championship
1 x Olympics Individual Time Trial
2 x Dauphiné Libéré
2 x Paris-Nice
1 x Clásica de San Sebastián
1 x Critérium International
1 x Grand prix du Midi Libre
3 x Volta a Catalunya
Lots x respect

I know which palmares I would prefer.

indurains he went under the radar real nice hehe

 

[saganftw]

indurain was doping as much as armstrong

 

[luigiV]

Take out the TDF and what do you have:

World Cycling Champion (1993)
US National Cycling Champion (1993)
Clásica de San Sebastián (1995)
La Flèche Wallonne (1996)
Tour de Suisse (2001)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (2002, 2003)

Palmares on a par with Laurent Brochard over a 12 year career.

yes true but ........lance has won 7 tours laurent hasnt whos palmares is better hehe

 

[luigiV]

Take out the TDF and what do you have:

World Cycling Champion (1993)
US National Cycling Champion (1993)
Clásica de San Sebastián (1995)
La Flèche Wallonne (1996)
Tour de Suisse (2001)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (2002, 2003)

Palmares on a par with Laurent Brochard over a 12 year career.

indurain was doping as much as armstrong

no wonder indurain was a machine...he would of minced armstrong seriously if lance was on par with indurain at his peak