Armstrong's numbers

[Cobber]

Chris - it is always good to have some new blood in the Clinic (boom,boom) - however I dont think you have taken the time to read through the many different opinions on this forum.

Is this in reference to this?!

 

[Race Radio]

Which is no different to Wiggins before he trained specifically to do GC. If you want to get through the tour and target certain stages then you don't waste the energy. That is the basics of Tour riding. Also if EPO was rampant amongst the top guys in the early 90s, this would have held Armstrong back in the tours until he was able to compete on a level playing field. That is logical - people can't have it both ways.

But lets say there is a range on EPO that varies every ten people or so. I doubt its that extreme, but that still leaves countless other riders that were as good as Armstrong pre cancer that would benefit from it in the same amount as he is claimed to have done. It's not logical or scientific that Armstrong would uniquely benefit from EPO usage when the range is this small. Think about it, there would still be many dozens of riders out there that would have improved to the same extent as he did. And in any event, even the people that claim he doped all the way through still know its doubtful Armstrong used EPO through all of his tours - the allegation in the latest tour is he had a small blood transfusion. So clearly it's not some wonder drug that did it, it was the rider. Whatever you think of him personally, this is one of the great tour champions and rightfully so. That's where the evidence points to. That's why I think so much of the criticism of him is unfair. It's a very hard sport that requires huge time and effort to master, so to have people running your name through the mud is all the more wrong.

Desperation for attention.

It is clear that there are riders who also saw dramatic improvement with the advent of EPO. Indurain, Riis, Ulrich, Rominger can all be considered to respond better then average. The fact is the results of much of the last 15 years are distorted. Yes, there has always been doping in the sport but until the advent of blood vector doping none of these methods produced such a wide range of improvement from rider to rider.

 

[Anonymous]

UnBanProCycling,
I don't think any of us mind dissenting opinion at all. We just dislike unrepentant trolls who do nothing but barb their posts with hooks meant to incite reaction and little else. On a RARE occasion you would contribute something of substance, but for the most part, you are nothing but a practitioner of the Dark Side of Trollkraft. You suck. Good riddance.

Oh, and nice Trollkraft move on the multiple sock puppets and I am guessing movement to post from multiple IP addresses.(Posting from the local Starbucks I am guessing). That is truly great Trollkraft, but you still suck.

Toodles!

 

[UnBanProCycling]

Hey there, so why have many of your posts on another thread just disappeared?

My guess is as good as yours. It looks like someone couldn't handle the fact I was having a reasonable debate and pulled the plug. They also tried to block my IP - how desperate and underhand is that?

I haven't got time to stay and chat - I wasn't even going to bother commenting today i should be going on a ride - but I scanned the thread for replies and noted some drama queen had axed all my posts. The decent people here should stand up against this type of unreasonable bullying and censorship. Remember some of the people I am conversing with have been banned from many more forums than I ever have! It's only because there all in one place I end up looking like the weirdo.

Just a thanks to my supporters who have sent me lots of PMs in support over the last couple of weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

You'll run out of Starbucks' pretty soon. I guess we will have to endure you for however many hot spots you have in your area. I bet your neighbors don't know you are posting from their bushes. Probably look in the windows too, don't you?

 

[Race Radio]

I thought we had worked out our problems and were now having a reasonable discussion based on points and counter points, the way it should be.

As opposed to what you have been doing for the last two months, Trolling?

No doubt you will continue to post unsupportable BS, refuse to back any of it up, and act surprised when anyone questions it. You will continue to invent lies about other posters with the sole purpose of drawing them into a useless debate and derailing the thread.

You are not wanted here because of your methods, to pretend this is some "Freedom of Speech" issue is just more of your strategy to disrupt.

 

[UnBanProCycling]

Just for the record, I've had zero sock puppets. The fact that I came back under the same name should tell you something. It's just another smear but the term "troll". You'd rather discuss that nonsense than the issues.

 

[Anonymous]

...uh....okay

See, coming back after being banned is just more proof that you have no redeeming qualities. I honestly don't even think you are a cycling fan. You are one of those guys who gets his jollies from trolling, and you did what they all do and picked a hot topic and then stirred the pot to feed your sick ego. Quite a sick little boy you are.

 

[Izoard]

I ChrisE UBPC?

 

[Jonathan]

I ChrisE UBPC?

No, positively not.

 

[Izoard]

No, positively not.

OK. I had to ask, given every time I clicked on a link to bring me to a UBPC post, in brought me to a ChrisE post. Then again, I could not actually find an original UBPC post - I think the mods may have deleted them.

 

[Race Radio]

Just for the record, I've had zero sock puppets. The fact that I came back under the same name should tell you something. It's just another smear but the term "troll". You'd rather discuss that nonsense than the issues.

Came back under the same name? Are you referring to when you were banned as Arbiter and came back as BanProCycling?

Considering your history of lying why should anyone believe you?

 

[Anonymous]

I ChrisE UBPC?

No, ChrisE is another animal from UBPC indeed. Its like getting rid of the clap only to find you have the crabs...and then the clap comes back too...

 

[UnBanProCycling]

As opposed to what you have been doing for the last two months, Trolling?

No doubt you will continue to post unsupportable BS, refuse to back any of it up, and act surprised when anyone questions it. You will continue to invent lies about other posters with the sole purpose of drawing them into a useless debate and derailing the thread.

You are not wanted here because of your methods, to pretend this is some "Freedom of Speech" issue is just more of your strategy to disrupt.

But this is the nonsense you constantly repeat to poison the well and ruin threads. The biggest lie that you can come up with that I am supposed to have told is that you admitted to being banned for trolling, rather than just admitted to being banned. Well WOW! What a troll I must be to tell such lies like that. That's the best you can come up with for why I am such a big troll? What about your lies on the Logistics thread? You don't see my going around calling you a liar because of this.

I've tried to back up everything I've said with reasoned argument, though obviously I am not a scientist and I don't have CCTV cameras of Armstrong's entire life - a lot of it is naturally going to be speculation and judgment. But you just won't accept anything other than saying that dope somehow magically worked for Armstrong over all over riders in history. You're a fanatic with a grudge and hatred I'm afraid. You really need to address that.

 

[UnBanProCycling]

No, ChrisE is another animal from UBPC indeed. Its like getting rid of the clap only to find you have the crabs...and then the clap comes back too...

Sighs. For the record I think ChrisE's points were a bit crappy, which is why I felt the need to pile in with some points of my own. Wonderlance's routine has been getting a bit annoying as well (despite what he said I never PMed in support - he was just playing it for laughs)

How can I address this big conspiracy theory mindset and dark accusations against others? "Liar" You're like that guy who shouted at Obama. You just want this place to be an echo chamber for likeminded people, but with the odd passing pro-Armstrong commentator who hasn't looked at the evidence so is easy to defeat.

Well if that's what you want then fine, but don't kid yourselves you're on some higher level to the rest of us.

I really have to go...

 

[Race Radio]

But this is the nonsense you constantly repeat to poison the well and ruin threads. The biggest lie that you can come up with that I am supposed to have told is that you admitted to being banned for trolling, rather than just admitted to being banned. Well WOW! What a troll I must be to tell such lies like that. That's the best you can come up with for why I am such a big troll? What about your lies on the Logistics thread? You don't see my going around calling you a liar because of this.

I've tried to back up everything I've said with reasoned argument, though obviously I am not a scientist and I don't have CCTV cameras of Armstrong's entire life - a lot of it is naturally going to be speculation and judgment. But you just won't accept anything other than saying that dope somehow magically worked for Armstrong over all over riders in history. You're a fanatic with a grudge and hatred I'm afraid. You really need to address that.

You lied when you wrote that I was banned from RBR for trolling, You lied when you wrote that I admitted this, You lied when you said that Mods had called me out for trolling, You lied when you said that Mods had said I would be banned if I continue, You lied when you at first said you were not Arbiter....until I proved that you were. You lie when you say you are in the UK. You wrote these lies in a feeble effort to bait me into responding to your trolling.

Your "Persecution" position is just your new trolling strategy. You will continue to invent things about other posters, post outlandish claims and refuse to back them up, high jack threads, and bring the forum down......only now your strategy will be to wave your fake stigmata wounds and pretend to be persecuted when anyone questions your trolling.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Reminder: There's a really good ignore function on this forum, instead of totally obliterating threads with the same old arguments my suggestion would be to use it. If you just cannot live with what someone has to say on a public form, add their user name to your ignore list and be done with it.

 

[UnBanProCycling]

They the said they would start deleting the posts of people that were using insults, not that they would ban you. I never said that. Since you were doing that across a number of threads then this obviously applied to you along with several others. This is correct.

But note how trivial and petty all of RaceRadio's reasons are for why I am such a big liar and a troll. There is nothing of substance there on a real issue. It's just semantics about who said who was going to get banned, etc. 'He said, she said'. This is the type of petty person he is. Make up your own minds...

 

[UnBanProCycling]

They the said they would start deleting the posts of people that were using insults, not that they would ban you. I never said that. Since you were doing that across a number of threads then this obviously applied to you along with several others. This is correct.

But note how trivial and petty all of RaceRadio's reasons are for why I am such a big liar and a troll. There is nothing of substance there on a real issue. It's just semantics about who said who was going to get banned, etc. 'He said, she said'. This is the type of petty person he is. Make up your own minds...

(Had to shorten my ride to make this comment)

 

[Race Radio]

They the said they would start deleting the posts of people that were using insults, not that they would ban you. I never said that. Since you were doing that across a number of threads then this obviously applied to you along with several others. This is correct.

But note how trivial and petty all of RaceRadio's reasons are for why I am such a big liar and a troll. There is nothing of substance there on a real issue. It's just semantics about who said who was going to get banned, etc. 'He said, she said'. This is the type of petty person he is. Make up your own minds...

(Had to shorten my ride to make this comment)

This is comical, in a post to defend your lying you invent more lies.

It is far more then semantics that you derailed a thread with your trolling about how Betsy should have committed perjury as it was the right thing to do. Consistently making outlandish statements and lies in order to draw others into your trolling is not semantics.....but of course you know this.

 

[Anonymous]

Standing ovation for the mods. Thanks RDV (and others).

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Standing ovation for the mods. Thanks RDV (and others).

It's more 'others' than RDV. I'm just a simple man with a simple plan. If you know what it is, let me know......

 

[Hugh Januss]

OK, I'll bite. Please link where he "admitted donating 6 figures". I can only find a German UCI lady saying that.

I've googled the pis out of it and I can't find it. I have just found he admitted in SCA deposition it was $25k (not 50 like I said earlier). Betsy (I assume Betsy Andreu) posted that gem on podiumcafe.....while stating LA's mechanic said it was $500k per Kathy Lemond. The mechanic then denied that in an affidavit.

Look towards the bottom.

http://www.podiumcafe.com/comments/2007/7/1/1347/40340/8

OK I guess I need to walk you through it. I thought an experienced internet warrior like yourself would have the skills for this.
1. Click on this link : http://www.scribd.com/doc/16226502/Lance-Armstrong-Doping-History
2.See where it says "Part VI: Contemporary Challenges? Good job.
3. Scroll down to page 22/53. That means page 22 out of 53 total pages. so it will be just short of 1/2 way through the article.
4. Read starting where it says " In 2005 Armstrong cofirmed he made a donation of "six figures" to the UCI......."

There that wasn't so hard, was it?
While you are there you might want to read some of the rest of the article, it might help to aleviate some of this "man love" you seem to have for Lance. I know it worked for me.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

OK I guess I need to walk you through it. I thought an experienced internet warrior like yourself would have the skills for this.
1. Click on this link : http://www.scribd.com/doc/16226502/Lance-Armstrong-Doping-History
2.See where it says "Part VI: Contemporary Challenges? Good job.
3. Scroll down to page 22/53. That means page 22 out of 53 total pages. so it will be just short of 1/2 way through the article.
4. Read starting where it says " In 2005 Armstrong cofirmed he made a donation of "six figures" to the UCI......."

There that wasn't so hard, was it?
While you are there you might want to read some of the rest of the article, it might help to aleviate some of this "man love" you seem to have for Lance. I know it worked for me.

Is this the same donation that the Versus/OLN crew had only glowing things to say about? Something along the lines of "This man, out of his own pocket has given the UCI money to help off-set the cost of its anti-doping program."

I didn't hear much after that... on account I was screaming "That's an f***ing conflict of interest!" at my television set.

 

[Race Radio]

Is this the same donation that the Versus/OLN crew had only glowing things to say about? Something along the lines of "This man, out of his own pocket has given the UCI money to help off-set the cost of its anti-doping program."

I didn't hear much after that... on account I was screaming "That's an f***ing conflict of interest!" at my television set.

Yes, the same.

Of course they negelted to add that the "Donation" came in 1999, not 2004. The donation came a couple months after the UCI looked the other way on his Cortisone positive. It was only after the press found out about it that Armstrong and the UCI made a announcement in an attempt to preempt the controversy. The funny thing is they said the money was for a certain testing machine....that did not exist in 1999.