Arriagada Positive for Anabolic Substance

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flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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hrotha said:
You didn't follow cycling in the 80s, did you.
You are right I did not watch cycling in the 80s and 90s. I remember Raul Alcala, Mexican did well. This guy Soler looks darn good too. when he stays on bike. I don't think the guys are who are racing against Sevilla in Colombia are doing to bad either. Yeah I agree the dope makes a big difference. Being from the US racing say in Colombia or Belgium would be a tough transition, culturally, weather wise and in Colombia, altitude wise. Also another style of competition.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Ildabaoth said:
It is really annoying when people say that in Latin America doping is more extensive than in Europe. Lucho Herera retired at 31 years old because he began getting dropped in mountains in Europe. One of the best climbers in the history, in his peak age, getting dropped. Quite a lot South American riders couldn't go to Europe during the 90's and the beggining of last decade because they weren't supposely good enough. Colombian riders live and train in places at least 2000 meters over the sea level, but they weren't good enough climbers in Europe. Because European trained harder, 8 hours a week? Or perhaps because high cadence riding? Take a guess.
it's hilarious that people think latin america is all about doping. for instance not ONE colombia was ever caught on doping in europe. now that's saying a lot because there have been many pro's in europe. ever wondered why in the early 90s when epo came on, the colombians disapeared from the peloton?? exactly.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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flicker said:
Colombians probably failed in Europe because they were not used to the level of competion there, nothing else. Also it was probably different climate, language foods, culture. They were probably homesick.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
it's hilarious that people think latin america is all about doping. for instance not ONE colombia was ever caught on doping in europe. now that's saying a lot because there have been many pro's in europe. ever wondered why in the early 90s when epo came on, the colombians disapeared from the peloton?? exactly.
I think it's likely that those riding for Spanish and Italian teams in the 90s (Kelme, Selle Italia... come on) were doping like everyone else. Problem is, I'd assume most Colombian climbers would have naturally high hematocrits and in general would benefit much less from doping. Still, Botero was pretty much caught (for Clinic standards), and people like Víctor Hugo Peña, Cacaíto Rodríguez and Iván Parra are mighty suspicious.
 
flicker said:
You are right I did not watch cycling in the 80s and 90s. I remember Raul Alcala, Mexican did well. This guy Soler looks darn good too. when he stays on bike. I don't think the guys are who are racing against Sevilla in Colombia are doing to bad either. Yeah I agree the dope makes a big difference. Being from the US racing say in Colombia or Belgium would be a tough transition, culturally, weather wise and in Colombia, altitude wise. Also another style of competition.
Are you referring to Alcala's PDM days? Hmmmm.

And Soler when he was with Barloworld? Hmmmm.
 
Feb 24, 2011
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hrotha said:
I think it's likely that those riding for Spanish and Italian teams in the 90s (Kelme, Selle Italia... come on) were doping like everyone else. Problem is, I'd assume most Colombian climbers would have naturally high hematocrits and in general would benefit much less from doping. Still, Botero was pretty much caught (for Clinic standards), and people like Víctor Hugo Peña, Cacaíto Rodríguez and Iván Parra are mighty suspicious.
I do partially agree. But it must be accounted that a high doping program is very expensive in the first place. So many Latin American riders, who couldn't even afford their own bike, hadn't the money to an adequate program either. So it was not just the benefit, but also the quality of the doping. And I concur with your suspicious, specially Peña. He wasn't a natural climber and nevertheless we was one of those US Postal-7-guys-at-the-front-of-the-peloton-every-stage-without-any-sweat.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
As you can see, Captain Picard was practicing Hamlet. When in deep space Captain Picard would recite Shakespere and never get homesick.
The earlier, Captain Kirk was on booty call so often on new worlds he never had time to miss earth.
A Colombian climber on the Mur or in the Ardennes? I would speculate it is a WTF moment, take me home little Suzy. Way, way nicer in Colombia, spicy senoritas, home cooked plantains and puerco from mama!
 
hrotha said:
I think it's likely that those riding for Spanish and Italian teams in the 90s (Kelme, Selle Italia... come on) were doping like everyone else. Problem is, I'd assume most Colombian climbers would have naturally high hematocrits and in general would benefit much less from doping. Still, Botero was pretty much caught (for Clinic standards), and people like Víctor Hugo Peña, Cacaíto Rodríguez and Iván Parra are mighty suspicious.
I did not want to get started about doping with the Colombians but here is my theory:

1- Because of natural high hematocrit they'll benefit less. Specially those living in the Boyacá area (Another forist already said it).
2- Because the Colombians have less muscle mass than the average European the doping programs will have less of an impact. Please don't ask me about the details.
3- Expensive programs. That's basically why all Colombians teams disappeared. Only few renegades survived in European teams.

Having said that, I agree with you that most of those Colombian riders riding for dodgy European teams must have been doping. Botero was maybe the only one who benefited the most maybe because of his natural European built body. The rest just suffered competing against completely jacked up Europeans. A mean, a jacked up Riis or Ulrich would destroy a small doped Colombian any day now. The advantage from the 80's was completely lost.:(
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Down there? You mean as opposed to "up here" in the squeaky clean USofA?
Doofus.:rolleyes:
Never said USofA was squeaky clean. But compared to down there yes, there is no comparison.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Ildabaoth said:
It is really annoying when people say that in Latin America doping is more extensive than in Europe. Lucho Herera retired at 31 years old because he began getting dropped in mountains in Europe. One of the best climbers in the history, in his peak age, getting dropped. Quite a lot South American riders couldn't go to Europe during the 90's and the beggining of last decade because they weren't supposely good enough. Colombian riders live and train in places at least 2000 meters over the sea level, but they weren't good enough climbers in Europe. Because European trained harder, 8 hours a week? Or perhaps because high cadence riding? Take a guess.
They were good enough. Many problems though. The Euro directors burned and used up those guys, "burned up their motor" if you will. Doping practices were a little behind the time in Columbia. Look at them now, they are just fine in Europe.
 

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