Ashenden and omertà

[rhubroma]

Now, I'd like to see Ashenden also talk about US Football, World Cup soccer, Olympic track and field, etc. Cycling has been made into the "bad apple" of sport and its exposure is being done in the name of all sport.

That's not only not very democratic, but is also not sportsmanship like. I've got no problem with doping in cycling being exposed, however, that the football league for example hasn't been placed under the same scrutiny can only be for one reason.

And the reason is, as usual, money. There exists too a omertà within the cultures of these sports, but pro football and soccer generate gargantuan sums of money, whereas track and field is the main Olympic spectacle so the IOC has no interest in going after it the way cycling has been under attack. Bolt is a global phenomenon, but it is laughable to think he's clean. How many positives do we get each year in the anti-doping tests of these sports? Heck football and soccer don't even have blood controls, but only urine samples tested and the controls are sporadic at best. There's simply no business interest nor incentive to fight doping in these sports. Which is not only hypocritical but sinister, when we realize that high school and college youth are already taking anabolic steroids, testosterone, HGH in the hopes of becoming future champions.

What are your thoughts?


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opinion-michael-ashenden-on-omerta-101

 

[the big ring]

What are your thoughts?


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opinion-michael-ashenden-on-omerta-101

I asked if there was a sport with structures in place that cycling could copy to get rid of omerta, deal with doping and keep everyone employed.

The example provided was skiiing, I think. Or pro surfing.

Anyway. I think if cycling can get it right, they set the template for other sports to follow, should the need arise.

Yes it sucks that cycling is in the limelight. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

Still thinking about it though.

 

[noddy69]

I think it doesnt matter to me what other sports do. It doesnt matter that they are not highlighted for now. That is up to them. I agree there are problems in other sports, but why that should matter when highlighting the omerta in cycling is beyond me.

The fact that it is being aired in public is important for cycling even if some will say different. What other sports do is up to them, and yes athletics has a major major problem that it will have to face up to when some of its big names get caught out, but for now in the press its cycling, which has to face up to its problems.

The fact that other sports are not doing it right now is not important. In fact it nearly sounds like your following the " its bad for cycling " omerta line. Which in all honesty it is not. Its good to get it out so cycling can at least have a sustained go at cleaning house. People should just be happy its started as it should without wondering why or feeling hard done by that others are not.

 

[sheenyp]

Presumably Ashenden not Anderson?

 

[RichWalk]

I hope his intentions are to use cycling as impetus to greater change in other sports. We broadly recognise the sport as being the most tested yet competitiors are still being busted and more and more articles arrive disputing the effectiveness of testing, even at this level.

Long term I can possibly see a new ethos among the whole setup, whereby the team bosses and sponsors livelyhoods rely upon them and their team being clean, where I see it failing is through simple human nature, if you offer somone an advantage, especially in an environment that offers exponential rewards, then I am sceptical this will ever be erradicated.

Good luck to Ashenden, I hope he isn't painted as a disgruntled utopian idealist.

 

[The Hitch]

I think it doesnt matter to me what other sports do. It doesnt matter that they are not highlighted for now. That is up to them. I agree there are problems in other sports, but why that should matter when highlighting the omerta in cycling is beyond me.
.

Because cycling, my sport, gets spat and **** on in the media as being the dirty sport.

 

[noddy69]

Because cycling, my sport, gets spat and **** on in the media as being the dirty sport.

Because our sport has a problem. It has been dirty and until there are wholesale changes it may continue to be. Tackle the problem, let it air its dirty laundry and clean itself up and let other sports look after themselves.

Its not as if the reputation is not earned. Its true, just because other sports dont get the same rep doesnt mean its not happening, especially athletics and swimming.

The press cycling is getting is earned and needs to be changed. To change that it needs to clean up its act. When what is been written is true then so be it.
So let cycling clean itself up and the bad press will turn to press showing how it did it, then the focus may change. But just because other sports dont get the same treatment does not mean cycling should not get the coverage as its only itself to blame.

 

[Tinman]

Because cycling of all the main stream sports is the one where doping has the most performance benefit. It uses the large muscle groups for endurance outcome. Only other equivalent sports are ice skating and cross country skiing, not high profile sports.

Now if you were to talk about triathlon on the other hand

Soccer doping benefits much less, and body building is an artform...

 

[rhubroma]

I think it doesnt matter to me what other sports do. It doesnt matter that they are not highlighted for now. That is up to them. I agree there are problems in other sports, but why that should matter when highlighting the omerta in cycling is beyond me.

The fact that it is being aired in public is important for cycling even if some will say different. What other sports do is up to them, and yes athletics has a major major problem that it will have to face up to when some of its big names get caught out, but for now in the press its cycling, which has to face up to its problems.

The fact that other sports are not doing it right now is not important. In fact it nearly sounds like your following the " its bad for cycling " omerta line. Which in all honesty it is not. Its good to get it out so cycling can at least have a sustained go at cleaning house. People should just be happy its started as it should without wondering why or feeling hard done by that others are not.

To clarify and reiterate: I have no problem with cycling being pursued for its doping culture and omerta, though I don't think it should be the only sport with is back pinned up against the wall by the investigations.

My premise was that all the economic considerations have permitted a relatively "poor" sport to such as cycling, and one that no doubt has a serious doping problem, to become the whipping boy of the industry.

There are other sports with major doping issues, yet being the "princes" of the industry they are, they have a whipping boy like cycling to be punished when the prince misbehaves or does poorly in school.

It tells us allot about how the industry, taken as a whole, operates.

 

[B_Ugli]

We broadly recogniose the sport as being the most tested yet competitiors are still being busted and more and more articles arrive disputing the effectiveness of testing, even at this level

We are led to believe the sport as being the most tested as that is what individuals in the higher echelons of the sport would like you to believe.

Having been on the passport panel I would really like to know what his experience of seeing the values first hand lead Michael Ashenden to believe. He alludes to the fact that he thinks very little has changed. So why is that?

Clearly the man cant point the finger at people who have not had proceedings opened but he can say what the trends suggest and whether certain teams look to be worse than others. I would imagine he also knows whether the UCI turned a blind eye to certain teams.

Dont get me wrong I like Ashenden but sometimes stuff said off the cuff raises more questions than answers for fans of cycling.

 

[rhubroma]

Presumably Ashenden not Anderson?

That's right. Somehow I was thinking of Kim Anderson for one reason or another, which is why it never pays to do things in a rush, or act precipitously.

 

[noddy69]

To clarify and reiterate: I have no problem with cycling being pursued for its doping culture and omerta, though I don't think it should be the only sport with is back pinned up against the wall by the investigations.

My premise was that all the economic considerations have permitted a relatively "poor" sport to such as cycling, and one that no doubt has a serious doping problem, to become the whipping boy of the industry.

There are other sports with major doping issues, yet being the "princes" of the industry they are, they have a whipping boy like cycling to be punished when the prince misbehaves or does poorly in school.

It tells us allot about how the industry, taken as a whole, operates.

I respectfully do not agree at all. Fistly which industry are you talking about ?

The only one that can be taken as a whole entity is the press, and yes in holding some sports and athletes as demigod like people they have alot to answer for in the name of selling papers rather than truth and honesty and good reporting.

As far as sport goes, well they are seperate entities controlling the different sports and should all make sure that the sports they run are clean. The fact that cycling gets the press it does is deserved.Yes others should but as far as cycling goes it doesnt matter if they do or not.

I have never heard anyone say, look at cycling its rife with cheats,why cant they be like athletics? or swimming? or weightlifting? People know, those sports are not held above or as princes to cyclings paupers, they are just in denial,exactly like cycling was when its saviour Lance came along.
At least athletes will speak out without fear of reprisal in other sports, which they cannot do in cycling, that alone warrants the bad press.

 

[Rosedale]

Michael Ashenden writes....where else in the civilised world would we tolerate an environment where citizens were afraid to tell the truth?

I would suggest that you need to look no further than the banking and financial services sector

 

[JA.Tri]

Ashenden confirms my worst fears...that cosmetic changes have occured however the "underlying playing surface" is changing at a glacially slow rate.

I sympathise with the view that "cycling has been singled out"/"the whipping boy".

However more important is that we all do something to clean up the sport.

To claim "whipping boy" status is analogous to the apprehended speeding motorist pointing out to the police officer all the passing "speeders" and stating: "It is not fair". Or the apprehended doper stating: "Why me...when everybody else is doing it." In each case let us address our responsibilities... and hope/encourage others to address theirs.

I hope Dr Ashenden is able to/has forwarded relevant information/hints on to relevant parties.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Michael Ashenden writes....where else in the civilised world would we tolerate an environment where citizens were afraid to tell the truth?

I would suggest that you need to look no further than the banking and financial services sector

That’s not really correct though is it, if you search around you will find many banking scandals can be traced back to a whistle blower and unlike cycling there are laws protecting whistleblowers in many countries since the Enron Scandal.

I’m not a banker I am a keen cyclist. Why is there any reference on this thread to the media, football or baseball? Why would you care about those sports and draw comparisons? I’m sure there are footballers take creatine or clenbuterol pre season but who cares? Cycling is a mess, its controlled by idiots and most of the teams are run by idiots. The shining light of anti doping in the sport in Vaughters who clearly is the good guy. Except he just uses the media to perpetuate this by releasing bad news a week before he about to be outed in the very same media.

The media are the enemy? Why wouldn’t a national outlet only focus on the negatives? It’s a minority sport (Belgium excluded) in most of the world and all the sport does is feed a constant stream of bad news. Cycling is its own worst enemy and when someone speaks out in the media we set up threads to knock them? Shouldn’t we be cheering? This article is surely the good news, good someone is standing up for the good in the sport.

You can blame others or say others are as bad, although in most sports they probably are not. Or we can accept the sport is full of immoral cretins who are ruining it.

Cycling is in the worst place it has ever been, even if Armstrong is stripped who would you give the win to? Another druggee? Let’s all just accept we are the worst, most corrupt sport and then learn to deal with it. Looking at others to blame only hides our own weakness. I went to London hoping to see Cavendish win, hoped to see Cancellara win once he got in the break and then saw a scum bag druggee win who has never once accepted he did anything wrong. Many applauded. You can all reply saying Cav or Canc are also druggess but that’s not the point. We let Vino, Riis etc run teams, the lunatics are running the asylum.

Professional Cycling is a contradiction in terms, only by working from within and outwith can we hope to change.

 

[fatandfast]

Noddy I see your point. I think you right about most.

The USADA as well as Mr.Asheden have created a separate reality. A world in which 1 athlete in one sport is singled out for testing using a completely different criteria than all of his peers. Armstrong doped. so did Vaughters or so he says. A few other very accomplished pros have also said that they used PEDs that went undetected during the int/1st test and the half lives that are every micro dosers godsend.

Now that a elite group of athletes and scientists have determined that all the @500 tests Lance took were looked at through a dirty window or beer goggles rather than the integrity of a qualified tech or scientists, all the results should be subject to review not only Armstrong's cloudy viles. This is a bizarre and completely arbitrary starting and stopping point.Test everybody

If all the UCI's data has been invalidated, then the apples to apples comparison of Armstrong's results with his co-riders during the same period is the ONLY fair thing to do.

The UCI,USADA, USAC should all look back at Tyler. What other signs did he need to give? put a rubber hose around his arm and shoot up in front of them ?would that make his behavior deserve extra attention ?Yo Colorado Springs, Frankie fleshed up Rock Racing. Mancebo,Sevilla,and the rest of OpPuerto's who's who was just not enough. Try and do better.

I feel personally cheated that guys like Hindcappie or Gaggioli and Team Saturn are getting a free past. As we have all seen with are own eyes history can be rewritten. I have been around guys that were gassed the entire time I raced. When Papp/or eqiv blew our doors off you just told yourself it was age/talent/timing, turns out dope may have been a bigger role than was previously considered .I am not sitting home waiting for a JoeBuckCert or a carton of powerbars but lets just test everybody just to make sure it's done right.
Did anyone from the officiating team ever look at Roberto without sunglasses?
Dead give away

A good test start is all stage winners under Lance's reign so that some of the cat litter and it's contents can be distributed amongst the guilty. Now that we are all aware of the parallel universe the testing should start for any winner seen as innocent in Armstrong's time frame
the by USAC,ASO/APMU,UCI,USOC,and others.If the USADA is correct and everybody else missed it just test. Money will be saved on Basso,Ullrich,Tyler,Landis,Vaughters,George,Levi,CVV, Danielson,Valverde, Vino, Schleck,Museeuw,...since Lance is toast all his numbers are savings also.

If Ashenden thinks a ray of hope is a truth and reconsiliation commish then make sure it's tough love. Lose all you results w no life time ban and then get the standard 2 years.

DO NOT RETEST MILLAR because he is chums with Cav and is just so damn cute and honest. he has paid his dues. Leave him alone



Also leave Delgado,Roche,Kelly,Pantani,Lemond,Hinault,Claudio alone. Fignon was just reacting to meds when he said he used ,no retest for those guys,no matter how cheap and easy the tests become.Hands off... No 7-11 testing period.

I have tried to make every section of this post reusable for those that say Armstrong and Armstrong only. If they spend a few hundred thousand there will be a waiting line to confess and Museeuw will be a trail blazer.

 

[egtalbot]

You can blame others or say others are as bad, although in most sports they probably are not.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your post, but I'd take issue with the bolded assertion. I would be absolutely shocked if doping is not as rampant or more rampant in the major American sports, where the testing is a pale shadow of cycling's regimen which we know to be inadequate. Having been around moderately high level track and field, I am certain it is rampant there. And swimming and nordic skiing are also likely, again with less chance of getting caught than cycling and just as much benefit.

Personally I lean more towards not worrying about cycling being singled out, but it's not because it's worse than other sports. It isn't.

 

[thehog]

Now, I'd like to see Ashenden also talk about US Football, World Cup soccer, Olympic track and field, etc. Cycling has been made into the "bad apple" of sport and its exposure is being done in the name of all sport.

That's not only not very democratic, but is also not sportsmanship like. I've got no problem with doping in cycling being exposed, however, that the football league for example hasn't been placed under the same scrutiny can only be for one reason.


What are your thoughts?


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opinion-michael-ashenden-on-omerta-101

Why would he talk about sports he knows little about?

His training, research and work experience is exclusively from the sport of cycling. Probably why the story appeared on a website which is solely about the sport of cycling.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Now, I'd like to see Ashenden also talk about US Football, World Cup soccer, Olympic track and field, etc. Cycling has been made into the "bad apple" of sport and its exposure is being done in the name of all sport.

It was a cyclist that called him about cyclings big problem.
Why would he talk about other sports?

That's not only not very democratic, but is also not sportsmanship like. I've got no problem with doping in cycling being exposed, however, that the football league for example hasn't been placed under the same scrutiny can only be for one reason.

And the reason is, as usual, money. There exists too a omertà within the cultures of these sports, but pro football and soccer generate gargantuan sums of money, whereas track and field is the main Olympic spectacle so the IOC has no interest in going after it the way cycling has been under attack. Bolt is a global phenomenon, but it is laughable to think he's clean. How many positives do we get each year in the anti-doping tests of these sports? Heck football and soccer don't even have blood controls, but only urine samples tested and the controls are sporadic at best. There's simply no business interest nor incentive to fight doping in these sports. Which is not only hypocritical but sinister, when we realize that high school and college youth are already taking anabolic steroids, testosterone, HGH in the hopes of becoming future champions.

What are your thoughts?


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opinion-michael-ashenden-on-omerta-101

When Festina 98 happened cycling was one of the biggest sports in Europe.
Soccer didnt have the money it does today - but soccer is local, so looked at differently.

Cycling has the reputation it has not just because it is drug fueled - but because it has attempted to hide it, yet repeatedly gets caught out showing little has changed.

You also have missed the huge point of Ashendens piece - that cycling is still the same as it always was.

 

[Microchip]

...We broadly recognise the sport as being the most tested ...

I used to think this was said in the same way that Lance was said as being the most tested athlete. Seriously.

 

[_frost]

Because cycling of all the main stream sports is the one where doping has the most performance benefit. It uses the large muscle groups for endurance outcome. Only other equivalent sports are ice skating and cross country skiing, not high profile sports.

Now if you were to talk about triathlon on the other hand

Soccer doping benefits much less, and body building is an artform...

So track&field, swimming and ice hockey are minor sports or they don't get performance benefit?

 

[RichWalk]

I used to think this was said in the same way that Lance was said as being the most tested athlete. Seriously.

Nice comment, you can say they are two sides of the same coin, if the tests largely don't work then the volume of them is just as irrelavant as the test.

 

[MarkvW]

The UCI has made a terrible mess of pro cycling. It will never change. The doping and cheating are totally endemic to the sport. The filthiness (now obvious to any fair-minded observer) is a key reason cycling remains relatively small and unimportant. When the sport can't support a team of the caliber of HTC-Highroad, you know the sport is small. When German TV pulls out because of the doping, and the UCI does nothing in response, you know the sport is going to stay small. Now McQuaid suggests forgiveness to the dopers. . .

The riders are chemically altered sheep (or a lot of them are). Expect nothing from them. They are about as defenseless as dodo birds. Pitiable heroes.

Expect nothing from team management. Look at all Vaughters has been able to accomplish. . .

Sponsors are not going to change anything. They won't clean up the sport. They'll just invest elsewhere if they need to.

Pro cycling is going to remain relatively small and totally filthy.

 

[Benotti69]

>snipped<

Even now you are trying to bring Armstrong down to just another rider that doped.

No chance.

Most riders wanted an end to the epo madness. Armstrong killed any chance of cycling getting anyway back on track to being at least sane with its doping. Then Armstrong had people busted which added to name of a dirty sport.

Armstrong was on a whole diffeent level of cheating and doping.

 

[MarkvW]

. . .
Most riders wanted an end to the epo madness.
. . .

The riders tell that to their docs every time they line up for an intravenous microdose of EPO!

"Doc, I want an end to this EPO madness! What have you got for me today."