Ashenden and omertà

[doxter]

Michael Ashenden writes....where else in the civilised world would we tolerate an environment where citizens were afraid to tell the truth?

I would suggest that you need to look no further than the banking and financial services sector

michael sounds somewhat naive in seeing this as the exemption , if say many other omerta scanarios exist - only this week the hillsborough deaths have been publically true'd and there must have been an omerta in politics and police forces and perhaps even the press to sustain such mistruths for 23 years .

afraid they are all around ... but im happy to see MA suggest all is still unclean in the sport of cycling , it makes sense

to me , la vuelta 2012 was something that should never be asked of the athletes

 

[Maxiton]

1) The UCI has made a terrible mess of pro cycling. It [most likely] will never change.

2) The doping and cheating are totally endemic to the sport.

3) The filthiness (now obvious to any fair-minded observer) is a key reason cycling remains relatively small and unimportant.

4) When the sport can't support a team of the caliber of HTC-Highroad, you know the sport is small.

5) When German TV pulls out because of the doping, and the UCI does nothing in response, you know the sport is going to stay small. Now McQuaid suggests forgiveness to the dopers. . .

6) The riders are chemically altered sheep (or a lot of them are). Expect nothing from them. They are about as defenseless as dodo birds. Pitiable heroes.

7) Expect nothing from team management. Look at all Vaughters has been able to accomplish. . .

8) Sponsors are not going to change anything. They won't clean up the sport. They'll just invest elsewhere if they need to.

9) Pro cycling is going to remain relatively small and totally filthy.

I've enumerated your nine points because each of them is salient and I agree with them all. It's a bleak outlook for the sport but no less true for that.

It doesn't have to be this way, of course. All it would take to change things, in my view, is a criminal investigation of the UCI. That might be enough. But I see no sign of that on the horizon.

 

[reginagold]

This Omerta thing is terrible. I'd do something about it, but I promised confidentiality to the people who told me they have the dirt on the top dogs.

Best,

M. Ashenden



Snark yes, but what needs to be in place that would allow all the Ashendens to give the information they have to some credible investigative authority?

No single source will have the complete story/evidence. Everyone is a little bit complicit if they hold the knowledge even though they didn't/don't participate.

Can't Interpol just open a one way website for submissions of reports of suspicious actions?

 

[rhubroma]

I respectfully do not agree at all. Fistly which industry are you talking about ?

The only one that can be taken as a whole entity is the press, and yes in holding some sports and athletes as demigod like people they have alot to answer for in the name of selling papers rather than truth and honesty and good reporting.

As far as sport goes, well they are seperate entities controlling the different sports and should all make sure that the sports they run are clean. The fact that cycling gets the press it does is deserved.Yes others should but as far as cycling goes it doesnt matter if they do or not.

I have never heard anyone say, look at cycling its rife with cheats,why cant they be like athletics? or swimming? or weightlifting? People know, those sports are not held above or as princes to cyclings paupers, they are just in denial,exactly like cycling was when its saviour Lance came along.
At least athletes will speak out without fear of reprisal in other sports, which they cannot do in cycling, that alone warrants the bad press.

But you're saying, differently, what I was getting on about: namely that the different sports are emphatically not making "sure the sports they run are clean" any more than cycling is. Though because the shield these mega-wealth generators wield is far sturdier, they have become impervious to the assaults of which the likes of USADA has inflicted upon the feeble two-wheeled sport.

This has nothing to do with denial, but business. It's all about money, the more one has and generates, the less one is susceptible to become the object of judicial inquiries. Period.

So I'm not complaining that such and such has happened to cycling- for God knows the sport has brought it upon itself - rather that the other sports seem to be given a free pass. As if the show must go on at any cost and the economic interests dictate what deserves to be pursued and prosecuted and what simply does not. Naturally this is the way it has always been: it's the market, which is pity and it is shameful of course, not for cycling, but for the whole industry and the public off of which it feeds.

 

[fatandfast]

Even now you are trying to bring Armstrong down to just another rider that doped.

No chance.

Most riders wanted an end to the epo madness. Armstrong killed any chance of cycling getting anyway back on track to being at least sane with its doping. Then Armstrong had people busted which added to name of a dirty sport.

Armstrong was on a whole diffeent level of cheating and doping.

So clods that are on the edge of time limits that have never got a result of any kind feel pressure to dope because of Lance's abilities while doped?

Marco Velo would have made it had he just took a hit? Sebastian Joly's ITT time would have been close? or worse still what if Joly shot up on stage 19 in 2004? What if Lance's didn't get his thermos? Do you really think Joly and other human dust bunnies can get a good 55k ITT time that is anywhere close to the King Of Dope himself?

Pavel Padmos got the shot but held back so Lance could shine?

Salvatore Commesso has the public draw but it just couldn't be seen because Lance was so jacked that he stole the show from 100+ other guys?

Stefano Zanini's 126th place on GC was equal to Armstrong minus the the micro dose?

Just doesn't hold up. Poor GC is really a statement about doping ethics by underclassman?

There was no cry to stop doping then and now. Riders want ever tool to hold onto a career that includes the highest salaries of all time in the sport (despite doping) The total numer of Euros/Dollars involved in pro cycling was never higher than during Lancetime. Most scrubs that came from some Belgian hardware store team would have then and now traded 10 years of their life for TV time shoulder to shoulder with Armstrong. Dope style and type is like freewheel positions fixed,hand shift 5 speed,on the bars 7,8,9,10,11 electric pushbutton it's no advantage among the best talent . Downtube shifters are non factor if used by everybody.

Armstrong is and was a rider. Vaughters has played a little game where he says he was given data that required great judgement and thought. Wrong. If a recent ex or current rider/champion says " I doped" he has an obligations on every level to out them. Ref. race horses government and public outcry..suddenly horses are withdrawn "for their health".

Armstrong was not at that meal and has said with his words and actions that there are no pictures or video of him getting dosed, micro or otherwise. That is the only thing that he is confident of given the round table of scum that he sat at the head of, Landis with a snapshot? Frankie with an instruction sheet? Tyler with a video of him and Lance laid out getting blood or a needle hanging around ? no.Just words. He still has his and they still have theirs.




There was never a rider like Armstrong before and there will never be intrest in his equal or superior that comes along because of what the UCI,Armstrong and others did to suck money out while cancer and battling it was red f-cking hot.
They killed the golden goose..Tyler and Landis fed the goose some poison. You can see how all the sports leadership are bummed that the Lance factor is wearing off so fast.

Think of Saxo and Radio Shack as parts of the dying. If the UCI brainmasters are really thinking they will move two or three big tours to Africa and China and take on more oil companies,cigarette companies,mineral rapers and pharmo companies to go all out for 2 to5 years so McQuaid can cash out in style. Let Amgen ride until Pat's fully vested.

It's not doping my friend it's greed. Greed everywhere you look. Don't get me wrong doping is not good but it's not major compared to the greed factor at the UCI. Lance=bad,really bad UCI= evil, the definition of evil.

If I can find the quotes McQuaid used about handlebar or helmet cams it's pretty clear what he is about. He wants to keep the sport in the 80s or early 90's so he can understand control. SRM's on bikes? or known here as real time reporting on doping..he says no. He is probably wearing some bellbottoms as he makes his daily deposit at the bank,sorry I meant while he looks for a blood testing machine.

In the states we had to watch Wide World Of Sports or read Winning magazine or Velonews to get any racing. Buy old VHS tapes of year or 2 old races to get your race fix. I can go headlong into table tennis, dressage or square dancing and get more access to the sports and the best within them currently than you can with pro cycling. I can track my neighbor easier in the NYC marathon than watch big pro cycling races. The UCI and McQuaid greatly underestimated how much the fans want it brought into a modern age.

McQuaid could have been slayed in the technical tent. By Armstrong or anybody else,to present day. March in and say that a wheel,helmet or frame doesn't comply with some UCI rule. The rider and DS response, say game over.
Let the fans know that the yellow jersey was turned over because of a technicality on the bike or uniform. DQ the entire team for a wrong jersey, or too pointed aero helmets . The fans would lynch him. Let Cancellara get DQd for a seat post, Boonen out for a wheel decal. Cav out for a wattage meter on his crank. Have some problem with Gilberts wheels or handlebars. Riders protests dangerous roads why not poor technical judgement that costs them endorsement cash and mental grief. If what just happened was not the clearest reason for McQuaid to resign ,he will die in office. Michelob Ultra is not to blame.

When the ASO is forced to give yellow jerseys away to the next guy that was a non doper it will set the sport back a decade minimum.

 

[KayLow]

The riders tell that to their docs every time they line up for an intravenous microdose of EPO!

"Doc, I want an end to this EPO madness! What have you got for me today."

Because doping is endemic to the point that virtually no clean rider can compete, there is a survivor bias here. Everyone has to dope to get to the top, so, not surprisingly, the guys at the top are fine with doping. They are also aware that a large portion of the public thinks that doping is unsportsmanlike so they also claim to be innocent as lambs when it comes to doping. What you end up with is a bunch of doping liars at the top of the sport.

Cycling needs to figure out a way to restructure itself so that doping is not so beneficial. One way is to improve testing. But I also think we should start thinking about making the multistage races less grueling by shortening them and/or adding in more rest days. Unlike weightlifting, which cannot be anything but what guy can lift the most, cycling should be something other than a competition to see who can be the first to complete an insanely long multistage event up insane climbs at insane speeds and without any time to recover from stage to stage and event to event.

 

[noddy69]

But you're saying, differently, what I was getting on about: namely that the different sports are emphatically not making "sure the sports they run are clean" any more than cycling is. Though because the shield these mega-wealth generators wield is far sturdier, they have become impervious to the assaults of which the likes of USADA has inflicted upon the feeble two-wheeled sport.

This has nothing to do with denial, but business. It's all about money, the more one has and generates, the less one is susceptible to become the object of judicial inquiries. Period.

So I'm not complaining that such and such has happened to cycling- for God knows the sport has brought it upon itself - rather that the other sports seem to be given a free pass. As if the show must go on at any cost and the economic interests dictate what deserves to be pursued and prosecuted and what simply does not. Naturally this is the way it has always been: it's the market, which is pity and it is shameful of course, not for cycling, but for the whole industry and the public off of which it feeds.

Again I disagree. Many other sports where athletes are abusing drugs are relatively poor and yet no action is taken. The reason no action is taken is no money to take action.
It is a whole lot more complicated than just a money issue. First there has to be a want. A want to catch the people cheating, then a way, then the money to do it, it is a big process which is time consuming and money sapping.

However at the very top of some sports you may be right. Much like armstrong was deemed to be untouchable there are certain stars who have been caught and got away with cheating with minor bans due to what they were taking. There are others who seem to be on something yet are not getting caught and these people are right at the top of sports and it seems untouchable. In this respect it may be other sports are going the same way as the UCI and losing perspective on what they are governing for the sake of profit.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

It is ALL sport.

If there's money in the game, there will be doping.

To think that cycling is the one rotten apple in the sporting barrel is naive at best, plain *** at worst.

The only way around it (to even try to eliminate doping and creating an honest environment within sport), is to allow an independent body to mandate and regulate testing.

Not federations for individual sports, not organizational bodies for individual sports, not player associations for sport; but a truly independent and international body that holds all sports to the same level and has the ability to enact seriously harsh sanctions.

Barring that, ALL professional sport will be rife with cheaters FOREVER.

The p*ssing contest we cycling fans get sucked into - over which sport is dirtier - does nothing for the argument or the cause. ALL sport is a cesspool in this regard, and the sooner it's addressed the better.

 

[_frost]

If there's money in the game, there will be doping.
<clip>

The p*ssing contest we cycling fans get sucked into - over which sport is dirtier - does nothing for the argument or the cause. ALL sport is a cesspool in this regard, and the sooner it's addressed the better.

Cannot disagree but unfortunately I can't see it happening because most if not all who could do the addressing are in a position of losing money.

 

[BroDeal]

So clods that are on the edge of time limits that have never got a result of any kind feel pressure to dope because of Lance's abilities while doped?

Marco Velo would have made it had he just took a hit? Sebastian Joly's ITT time would have been close? or worse still what if Joly shot up on stage 19 in 2004? What if Lance's didn't get his thermos? Do you really think Joly and other human dust bunnies can get a good 55k ITT time that is anywhere close to the King Of Dope himself?

Pavel Padmos got the shot but held back so Lance could shine?

Salvatore Commesso has the public draw but it just couldn't be seen because Lance was so jacked that he stole the show from 100+ other guys?

Stefano Zanini's 126th place on GC was equal to Armstrong minus the the micro dose?

Just doesn't hold up. Poor GC is really a statement about doping ethics by underclassman?

There was no cry to stop doping then and now. Riders want ever tool to hold onto a career that includes the highest salaries of all time in the sport (despite doping) The total numer of Euros/Dollars involved in pro cycling was never higher than during Lancetime. Most scrubs that came from some Belgian hardware store team would have then and now traded 10 years of their life for TV time shoulder to shoulder with Armstrong. Dope style and type is like freewheel positions fixed,hand shift 5 speed,on the bars 7,8,9,10,11 electric pushbutton it's no advantage among the best talent . Downtube shifters are non factor if used by everybody.

Armstrong is and was a rider. Vaughters has played a little game where he says he was given data that required great judgement and thought. Wrong. If a recent ex or current rider/champion says " I doped" he has an obligations on every level to out them. Ref. race horses government and public outcry..suddenly horses are withdrawn "for their health".

Armstrong was not at that meal and has said with his words and actions that there are no pictures or video of him getting dosed, micro or otherwise. That is the only thing that he is confident of given the round table of scum that he sat at the head of, Landis with a snapshot? Frankie with an instruction sheet? Tyler with a video of him and Lance laid out getting blood or a needle hanging around ? no.Just words. He still has his and they still have theirs.




There was never a rider like Armstrong before and there will never be intrest in his equal or superior that comes along because of what the UCI,Armstrong and others did to suck money out while cancer and battling it was red f-cking hot.
They killed the golden goose..Tyler and Landis fed the goose some poison. You can see how all the sports leadership are bummed that the Lance factor is wearing off so fast.

Think of Saxo and Radio Shack as parts of the dying. If the UCI brainmasters are really thinking they will move two or three big tours to Africa and China and take on more oil companies,cigarette companies,mineral rapers and pharmo companies to go all out for 2 to5 years so McQuaid can cash out in style. Let Amgen ride until Pat's fully vested.

It's not doping my friend it's greed. Greed everywhere you look. Don't get me wrong doping is not good but it's not major compared to the greed factor at the UCI. Lance=bad,really bad UCI= evil, the definition of evil.

If I can find the quotes McQuaid used about handlebar or helmet cams it's pretty clear what he is about. He wants to keep the sport in the 80s or early 90's so he can understand control. SRM's on bikes? or known here as real time reporting on doping..he says no. He is probably wearing some bellbottoms as he makes his daily deposit at the bank,sorry I meant while he looks for a blood testing machine.

In the states we had to watch Wide World Of Sports or read Winning magazine or Velonews to get any racing. Buy old VHS tapes of year or 2 old races to get your race fix. I can go headlong into table tennis, dressage or square dancing and get more access to the sports and the best within them currently than you can with pro cycling. I can track my neighbor easier in the NYC marathon than watch big pro cycling races. The UCI and McQuaid greatly underestimated how much the fans want it brought into a modern age.

McQuaid could have been slayed in the technical tent. By Armstrong or anybody else,to present day. March in and say that a wheel,helmet or frame doesn't comply with some UCI rule. The rider and DS response, say game over.
Let the fans know that the yellow jersey was turned over because of a technicality on the bike or uniform. DQ the entire team for a wrong jersey, or too pointed aero helmets . The fans would lynch him. Let Cancellara get DQd for a seat post, Boonen out for a wheel decal. Cav out for a wattage meter on his crank. Have some problem with Gilberts wheels or handlebars. Riders protests dangerous roads why not poor technical judgement that costs them endorsement cash and mental grief. If what just happened was not the clearest reason for McQuaid to resign ,he will die in office. Michelob Ultra is not to blame.

When the ASO is forced to give yellow jerseys away to the next guy that was a non doper it will set the sport back a decade minimum.

If anyone doubts that new and more powerful drugs are out there, just try to read that post. I dare you. The new stuff may not be performance enhancing but daaaammn that's some good sh!t.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Cannot disagree but unfortunately I can't see it happening because most if not all who could do the addressing are in a position of losing money.

But would they?

Think of the PR coup, and added legitimacy, any federation/organizational body would gain from jumping on board the "anti-doping" train.

It may be sketchy initially, but they'd come out smelling like roses. After all the doping debacles, I still watch cycling. All fans do. That source of revenue, apparently, is not going anywhere.

 

[BroDeal]

Cycling needs to figure out a way to restructure itself so that doping is not so beneficial. One way is to improve testing. But I also think we should start thinking about making the multistage races less grueling by shortening them and/or adding in more rest days. Unlike weightlifting, which cannot be anything but what guy can lift the most, cycling should be something other than a competition to see who can be the first to complete an insanely long multistage event up insane climbs at insane speeds and without any time to recover from stage to stage and event to event.

First we need to make the 100 meter sprint less grueling. Perhaps it could be shortened to ninety meters or even eighty. Maybe a five second rest period could be inserted in the middle. If the rest time is not counted then the overall times will remain the same. The recovery period could improve the times bit, leading to world records. Everyone will be happy.

 

[_frost]

But would they?

Think of the PR coup, and added legitimacy, any federation/organizational body would gain from jumping on board the "anti-doping" train.

It may be sketchy initially, but they'd come out smelling like roses. After all the doping debacles, I still watch cycling. All fans do. That source of revenue, apparently, is not going anywhere.

I am actually much more cynic than that. I think audience enjoys the freak show that professional sports have become and citius, altius, fortius must constantly be a bit more to keep the interest up and money flowing in. I think this is especially clear in track&field where golden/diamond leagues are "sold" with a possibility of new world record.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

First we need to make the 100 meter sprint less grueling. Perhaps it could be shortened to ninety meters or even eighty. Maybe a five second rest period could be inserted in the middle. If the rest time is not counted then the overall times will remain the same. The recovery period could improve the times bit, leading to world records. Everyone will be happy.

Must be performed in flip-flops. With a drink...

 

[rhubroma]

Again I disagree. Many other sports where athletes are abusing drugs are relatively poor and yet no action is taken. The reason no action is taken is no money to take action.
It is a whole lot more complicated than just a money issue. First there has to be a want. A want to catch the people cheating, then a way, then the money to do it, it is a big process which is time consuming and money sapping.

However at the very top of some sports you may be right. Much like armstrong was deemed to be untouchable there are certain stars who have been caught and got away with cheating with minor bans due to what they were taking. There are others who seem to be on something yet are not getting caught and these people are right at the top of sports and it seems untouchable. In this respect it may be other sports are going the same way as the UCI and losing perspective on what they are governing for the sake of profit.

So given where there is just enough money (not so poor to consider) and just enough want (cycling), the sport becomes a universal exempla of the war against drugs. It's the perfect compromise.

Yet cycling isn't exemplary in a market for which everything is bargained for and everyone gets defrauded.

It is simply "more guilty" than the rest.

 

[Altitude]

Cycling fans are the only ones who actually care whether or not their sport is clean. Why they care so much I have no idea, but that is the reason cycling takes so much heat. Talk to a NFL fan about doping - they know how dirty it is and they don't give a sh!t. Why should they? Sport will never, ever be clean. It's entertaiment - shut up and watch it.

 

[The Hitch]

If there's money in the game, there will be doping.

To think that cycling is the one rotten apple in the sporting barrel is naive at best, plain *** at worst.

The only way around it (to even try to eliminate doping and creating an honest environment within sport), is to allow an independent body to mandate and regulate testing.

Not federations for individual sports, not organizational bodies for individual sports, not player associations for sport; but a truly independent and international body that holds all sports to the same level and has the ability to enact seriously harsh sanctions.

Barring that, ALL professional sport will be rife with cheaters FOREVER.

The p*ssing contest we cycling fans get sucked into - over which sport is dirtier - does nothing for the argument or the cause. ALL sport is a cesspool in this regard, and the sooner it's addressed the better.

Exactly.

Its the same story as with all these threads. People shout - no cycling is worse, and offer the same old arguments everyone here knows off by heart about how dirty cycling is, while offering absolutely NOTHING to show why other sports are any better, which is after all the discussion. If i wanted to read 4th grade essays on why people think there are dopers in cycling, i would type "doping cycling" into google.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Cycling fans are the only ones who actually care whether or not their sport is clean. Why they care so much I have no idea, but that is the reason cycling takes so much heat. Talk to a NFL fan about doping - they know how dirty it is and they don't give a sh!t. Why should they? Sport will never, ever be clean. It's entertaiment - shut up and watch it.

Hopefully (or not), an answer to the "why should they" may be the increase in the amount of critical injuries in the NFL. I have no evidence besides "it makes sense", but players are hitting harder and harder, with more catastrophic results. We in the clinic can assume why. Self preservation may be an incentive for players' unions to draw up some regulations.

 

[doolols]

This Omerta thing is terrible. I'd do something about it, but I promised confidentiality to the people who told me they have the dirt on the top dogs.

Best,

M. Ashenden

Yup. Essentially, there's nothing new, nothing revelatory in Ashenden's article. Maybe he got a call, maybe he didn't, maybe it's just a little flag he's waving in the air, saying "don't forget about me, I'm still here".

 

[Agrajag]

Cycling fans are the only ones who actually care whether or not their sport is clean. Why they care so much I have no idea

I have a bit of a theory about this. I think it has to do with what doping does to cyclists, what it primarily affects. The "skill" in cycling is all about the ability to push yourself faster on the bike. Doping is first and foremost going to improve that. Anyone can ride a bike - there's no technical skill that takes years to master - there's race tactics, but if you're fast, you're fast, tactics are secondary.

In other sports like tennis the main skill isn't what doping is going to primarily affect. You can't take a drug and suddenly have a better backhand in tennis. Sure, it might make your endurance better and make you stronger or last longer on the court, but that's not what tennis fans are there to see as the main spectacle. They want to see a good backhand. I think that's why they don't care so much and why cycling fans care.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Cycling fans are the only ones who actually care whether or not their sport is clean. Why they care so much I have no idea, but that is the reason cycling takes so much heat. Talk to a NFL fan about doping - they know how dirty it is and they don't give a sh!t. Why should they? Sport will never, ever be clean. It's entertaiment - shut up and watch it.

You have actually answered your own question.

Cycling fans support the sport. Fans of team sports (football, soccer, AFL etc) follow the team. They do not care how they win, as long as their team wins.
I think it is creeping in a little in cycling - with teams being branded or tied to a country eg. Sky.

I have friends who follow certain football teams, but they would not cross the road if a game was on outside their door if it was not 'their team'.
Me - I have been at everything from underage racing to GTs, because I follow the sport.

Ashenden appears to be passionate about this sport too.

 

[Doms61]

Doping has been going on for so long in sports
It's all about money, the sponsors, they want results.
It's unfortunate that cycling is being targeted as the biggest
Culprit. Ashenden clearly has something against Armstrong
It must be more than just the doping.
Who really knows the truth behind all this?
People in everyday life
Cheat. They will cheat at playing cards, board games, on their spouses, etc.
It's in human nature.
Ashenden talks about an omertà
Sure there is
Is it going away anytime soon?
no! is the mob still around? Yes
It's a mafia mr. Ashenden
They don't go away
Just when you think you have got them all
They come back.

 

[The Hitch]

I have a bit of a theory about this. I think it has to do with what doping does to cyclists, what it primarily affects. The "skill" in cycling is all about the ability to push yourself faster on the bike. Doping is first and foremost going to improve that. Anyone can ride a bike - there's no technical skill that takes years to master - there's race tactics, but if you're fast, you're fast, tactics are secondary.

In other sports like tennis the main skill isn't what doping is going to primarily affect. You can't take a drug and suddenly have a better backhand in tennis. Sure, it might make your endurance better and make you stronger or last longer on the court, but that's not what tennis fans are there to see as the main spectacle. They want to see a good backhand. I think that's why they don't care so much and why cycling fans care.

I would strongly disagree with what you write. At the pro level, doping will make your backhand a lot better - it will make it faster and stronger. At the pro level theyve been playing for over 20 years and hit literrally millions of backhands in their life.

By then they already know how to hit the ball hard to any square centemeter on the court with their eyes closed. Its different to amatuer where people hesitate to hit the ball hard and steroids will have a negligable improvement. Once people reach the level where controlling the ball at full power is as natural as breathing then it becomes a very physical game.

Drugs make that backhand harder, which is the main way you can improve it. They will also make your forehand stronger, your serve stronger and your reactions quicker.

Thats not marginal gains. that is a totally different beast.

And tennis players, are just as comptetive as cyclists, as are people in all sports. Andy Murray throws tantrums when losing videogames - according to 1 of the bbc commentators who used the example to show how competitive murray is.

So they have just as much reason to be furious with the idea that someone else cheated.

And i do recall that the argentinian who lost 04 rg to nadal, is kind of like the ricco of tennis. When commentators mention him they say they dont want his type in the sport so they do seem to care about drugs cheats, while of course living in their own perfect world illusion about how nadal and co are doing it clean.

 

[trailrunner]

Cycling fans are the only ones who actually care whether or not their sport is clean. Why they care so much I have no idea, but that is the reason cycling takes so much heat. Talk to a NFL fan about doping - they know how dirty it is and they don't give a sh!t. Why should they? Sport will never, ever be clean. It's entertaiment - shut up and watch it.

Some of us don't just watch it - we actually race. Doping can affect us personally. Doping in the NFL doesn't directly affect any fans.

 

[Krebs cycle]

If Ashenden wants to target the omerta he and other anti-doping organisations should focus their attention on retiring riders that have nothing to lose by speaking out. I don't understand why there aren't more guys with one or two seasons left secretly filming conversations and/or actual doping practices in the act. Build a library of video and audio evidence and then dump the lot at WADA HQ on the day you hang up your jersey for the last time.

Additionally, how hard can it be for anti-doping authorities to hire investigators whose sole purpose is to uncover organised doping? If the police can break gigantic illegal drug smuggling rings, then surely it must be possible to do the same in cycling. Maybe it will take years of surveillance and intelligence gathering, but hey if they started working on this 10yrs ago, maybe we would have seen a few more drug busts by now. More resources into busting the supply side is needed.