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Ashendon on microdosing

Mar 22, 2010
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lean said:
IMO fans/athletes/enthusiasts must use the events of the last week to demand
-completely independent testing
-stricter allowances/margins within a biopassport system
-new and better methods like total hgb mass analysis

You left out that the people who participated the 'test negatives for cash' fund raiser to be held accountable. Fines plus loss of freedom.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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Thanks for the link. The researchers cited in the NYT article seem to comprehensively support what Thomas Frei said after his EPO positive--namely, that if he had just consumed enough water before going to bed that he probably would have sailed through the doping control the next morning. I remember that Pat McQuaid tried to dismiss this claim, saying essentially that there would still be a good probability of catching the microdosers. Yet again, Pat McQuaid seems to prefer to avoid the harder questions in favor of making big picture statements and demonstrating a commitment to broader principles (not to say that such higher-order stuff isn't important, too, but only that he doesn't seem completely interested in closing the loopholes when publicly admitting their existence would be inconvenient).

While I'm glad to see Frei suspended, I was equally glad to read of his very frank statements after his positive test. I hope that his remarks, as well as the NYT article and other mainstream attention, will contribute to catching more microdosers and further refining the tests. The most disturbing thing to me in the NYT article is the suggestion that microdosing is very effective--maybe even as good as earlier EPO abuse? I think a lot of people (myself included) had been assuming that the passport program and newer EPO tests had at least significantly reduced the potential benefits of EPO use because smaller dosing would mean smaller performance gains, too.
 
lean said:
another nice and timely write-up by NYT.

common knowledge to informed folks but nice to see the veil being lifted by a mainstream source, especially good timing.

makes the "never failed a test" defense just a little more flimsy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26micro.html?ref=sports

The funniest thing about the article is that Dr. Ferrari, who only gives non-doping training plans :rolleyes:, weighs in with his opinion about the risk of using EPO when testing might occur within twelve hours after use.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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BroDeal said:
The funniest thing about the article is that Dr. Ferrari, who only gives non-doping training plans :rolleyes:, weighs in with his opinion about the risk of using EPO when testing might occur within twelve hours after use.
Makes one wonder how he might know that.
 
Jul 8, 2009
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yeah I think you are talking about the MAIIA test, which I don't think they are using yet.

http://www.maiiadiagnostics.com/research/epo_doping_test.htm


does anyone know what the current positive criteria is for EPO?
In the study conducted by Asheden they mention that up until recently (the study is from 2006) the positive criteria is 80% basic isoforms. and it shows a figure where the test subjects still had about 50% basic isoforms after 100hours.
 
VeloCity said:
Makes one wonder how he might know that.

I am sure it happened one day after watching Seinfeld. There he was, standing next to the water cooler with Conconi, Checcini, Dr. Mabuse, and Chemical Ali when someone, no one remembers who, mentioned the maximum time needed for a microdose of EPO to be undetectable. Right after that, one of them made a crack about Pat McQuaid and the Jerk Store.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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BroDeal said:
The funniest thing about the article is that Dr. Ferrari, who only gives non-doping training plans :rolleyes:, weighs in with his opinion about the risk of using EPO when testing might occur within twelve hours after use.

irony aside, this was my biggest question about this article. assuming dr. ferrari would know, and i think it's pretty clear he's an expert, is this statement true? is microdosing really detectable within 12 hours? and if so, isn't this pretty risky, given the high probability of ooc testing?
 
Aug 11, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
There is an EPO-test that will detect micro-dosing.

Yes, but that only begs the questions: 1) how reliable is the test? 2) within what time window can the test detect doping? 3) how much EPO must be micro-dosed to trigger a positive result?

The NYT article was suggesting that the answers to these questions are not as reassuring as we would like. Similarly, Frei's statements suggest that the test would have to be conducted very soon after EPO use and the rider would have to fail to adhere to a savvy doping protocol before he would fall afoul of the test criteria.

If you have read/heard or know otherwise, please provide a link if possible. I'm curious to know more.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Ashenden and the French researchers have recently repeated their earlier experiments. Somewhat to their surprise, they found that the bodies of the test subjects adapted in a way that hides microdosing from the passport program. For various practical reasons, the passport tests measure only the concentration of red cells in athletes’ blood, not the total amount of red cells in their bodies.

Microdosing, however, appears to increase users’ blood volumes significantly. So although EPO raises users’ overall red blood cell level, its concentration stays constant because of the increased blood volume.

The body’s adjustments, Ashenden said, also disguise changes to other markers in the blood that would normally prompt an investigation under the passport program.

The part about it increasing blood volume was an eye opener. And that micro-dosing EPO is used in the off season so the rider can train longer and harder than usual.

We hear about cyclists being part of the whereabouts system, and testers showing up in the early morning or late evening. But I at least don't think about the logistics and expense of getting testers to them. If the UCI testers come from Europe, can you imagine the time and expense of sending them to test one rider who likes to train in Hawaii? Or who goes to South Africa for a week? If a rider went to Hawaii for three weeks to train, how many tests could he realistically get? And the testers would be tied up in planes and airports for hours & hours.
 
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BroDeal said:
The funniest thing about the article is that Dr. Ferrari, who only gives non-doping training plans :rolleyes:, weighs in with his opinion about the risk of using EPO when testing might occur within twelve hours after use.

Yea I caught that. I was waiting for the follow-up question "How do you know?"
 
Jul 1, 2009
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Aproos Michele Ferrari - has his own website where you can contact him for "personal training guidance"...

Welcome to 53x12.com! Together with Dr. Michele Ferrari, we have developed this website in order to provide athletes around the world with personalized training guidance for road cycling.

Learn how to correctly interpret your body's signals, both mental and physical. Become skilled at evaluating your cycling performances. Improve upon your efficiency as a cyclist and ride stronger, faster, better

Isnt this a job for News of the World or whoever, an undercover journalist etc? To get the "full package" from il dottore? Has it been tried? Anyone?
 
Feb 14, 2010
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mikkemus23 said:
Aproos Michele Ferrari - has his own website where you can contact him for "personal training guidance"...

Isnt this a job for News of the World or whoever, an undercover journalist etc? To get the "full package" from il dottore? Has it been tried? Anyone?

It would have been a great idea for the old L'Equipe reporters before the ASO neutered them.

I just went to the 53X12.com website (don't we have a 53X12 here?) and saw the World Of Trust icon go yellow. People have made it red (on a green go, yellow caution, red stop scale) in Vendor Reliability and Privacy, and yellow (44 out 0f 100) in Trustworthiness.
 
So according to the article "few people in the antidoping world" think microdosing is "unknown to cyclists". :confused: Can we get an interview with someone in the "antidoping world" who thinks cyclists are not yet aware of microdosing???
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Red Lobster said:
So according to the article "few people in the antidoping world" think microdosing is "unknown to cyclists". :confused: Can we get an interview with someone in the "antidoping world" who thinks cyclists are not yet aware of microdosing???

Few people in the antidoping world think the loophole is unknown to cyclists, leading to concerns that EPO is making a comeback.

In other words, few anti-doping people think cyclists don't know about it.

Many think cyclists do know about micro-dosing.
 
May 25, 2010
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Article author?

Hi thanks for taking my post...
Long time reader...first time poster.

One of most potential interesting things about the article is the author. Canadian based cycling fan and well know journalist.

Has a connection in peloton who could blow everything up (canucks stick together). Hopefully we see more stories from Ian leading things along.
 
and yet one must consider that so called "microdosing" is also a recovery aid
to hard training blocks and competition. the average person has no idea how hard professional sport can be, day in day out. just to survive in your job, it can be needed for health reasons. so playing devils advocate, it may be necessary at a certain level.
and...if you don't go positive, "no harm,no foul." at some point you have to set a limit. what that is, keeps changing.
 
Bala Verde said:
In other words, few anti-doping people think cyclists don't know about it.
Many think cyclists do know about micro-dosing.

Um, yeah. My point being that I would have thought that understanding to be universal. In other words, anyone in the anti-doping world who is laboring under the belief that cyclists don't know about microdosing should probably consider a career change.
 
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santacruz said:
They should legalize micro dosing to a 50% hematocrit, to level the playing field, temporarily, until a very reliable test is available.

so a bit of cheating is fine.. thats fair on the riders who dont microdose and only have a 40% crit isnt it :(
 

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