ASO wants to leave World Tour in 2017

[Zinoviev Letter]

Imbecile nationalism is precisely as attractive from the French as it is from "Anglo-Saxons".

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Imbecile nationalism is precisely as attractive from the French as it is from "Anglo-Saxons".

Once you get past that he makes good points: the one about cycling morphing into a market for business especially.

Sport shouldn't be a market for businesses; it was made by the people, for the people. Not by corporations. But then sports like Football started becoming big-brands around the world, and the NFL and NBA became huge in the US, moving beyond the state where the only business in sport is the teams and how they get the money to paying the employees (sportsmen) into huge sponsorship deals and TV rights battles, before finally becoming the name of not a club or a team, but a brand. Manchester United is the epitome of this. Chelsea also. They are more brand than club, and is detrimental to their support. While they are picking up more fans abroad, their home support (i.e the ones that turn up to the stadium and have been life long fans in some cases) has diminished. I'll add other cities to abroad. Manchester United in England is supported more by people who do not live in Manchester and have very little connection to it, than people from Manchester or whose ancestors (I'm thinking grandparents, maybe great-grandparents max.) have come from Manchester and were fans.

Most of the new support comes from countries in Asia, where the brand is known and publicised more by the endless summer off-season tournaments. In my opinion, this is detrimental to the growth of the sport in countries with possibly less tradition in it. People there do not support or create local teams, but rather support big teams from the UK and Spain. Without these teams having much support, there are less academies for youth with talent and consequently less growth within the domestic scene. Meanwhile, the teams in Europe (or their owners, more like) pocket more money, so they can spend more on expensive players, less on youth systems and more on themselves.

Big brand teams are detrimental in football, to the whole game. While I think that globalisation in sport is a good thing, I disagree with the current money-driven globalisation driven by major associations in sport. Globilisation in sport should mean raising awareness of the sport and creating new grassroots in countries where there is less tradition. Cycling is actually doing it quite well in some parts of Africa, especially sub-Saharan. However this is not due at all to the UCI. There is no big race in Africa as there is no money to be made in the UCI's eyes in Africa. But races in Asia are made aplenty with few with a my support. It is growing in Japan, slowly. In China, where races have been thrown at left, right and centre, nothing has happened. There is no support. Instead of just creating a race, create local teams and allow them to pick up young riders and blossom into larger, better teams. Then it is possible to create WT races. But not before there is a base, however small. The Abu Dhabi Tour is a ridiculous attempt at a sporting cash-crop. If you want countries with a growing base in cycling in the Middle East then you needn't look any further than Iran. They have dominated the Tour of Japan and the like, yet have no home race. Admittedly, UCI may be hesitant with the current political climate, but this has not stopped them creating races in human-rights abusing Qatar or Azerbaijan. They want money, pure and simple.

Globalisation has to be done for the good of the common people, the sport and the fans: old and new, east and west, old and young. Not just so some autocratic government can show off to the world; or so that the large corporations funding the UCI or FIFA or the FIA can line their pockets, or so that the important men in the said association can sit on their gold toilets, which is happening now. The "Anglo-Saxons" are not the problem, as the UK and the USA are other places where the UCI is neglecting despite a rising fan base in the former and a resurgence in the latter. The problem is this pure and simple: money.

 

[jaylew]

Madiot. Ugh.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

Anyone seen any clear and systematic analyses of the power struggle? Links would be appreciated.

If we take it as a given that the essence of the struggle is about who is in the best position to profit from the commodification of the sport, what are the secondary issues?

It seems to me there is a debate about preserving the history of the sport as distinctively European versus expanding it into something new and globalised.

The ASO promoting the former, UCI the latter.

On these grounds (and I know that this not the only issue), I would favour the ASO. I'm sick of every sport I like being transformed into a hyper-globalised commodity stripped of its history, context and meaning. Frankly, I don't want races in China, Australia, South America. I want the European calendar preserved, because that is where all of my interests are. At the end of the day, Liege-Bastonge-Liege has value almost purely on its account of its rich history. You weaken that, you weaken everything.

Compare it to the F1. F1 has grown in popularity in the world since it started new circuits and dropped the old ones. The std markets will always watch the races but newer markets will come in only if there is chance of hosting the races locally. This brings in newer sponsors and new teams.
Here is the problem. New races in other locations mean dropping some of the older races in the calendar as there are limited number of days available. the UCI will develop these new races and then once these have gained status, will drop some of the old established races. This is what ASO is afraid of.
Second the hijacking of tech based coverage by Velon. The ASO host the races but if the technical details are with Velon, then ASO has to pay Velon to use that aspect.
Cycling will never have impact in emerging markets or even US if they donot host races there. At present, there are essentially 5 countries which host the most of the major races- France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands. Unless there is a concerted effort to host races elsewhere, we are looking at a diminishing returns model especially when the economy of these countries is in recession.
With established long standing sponsors like Rabobank going away, There is is need to increase the number of sponsors. That way the teams at least have the potential to change sponsors every 2 years instead of closing down.
What has ASO got. Only the TDF is known around the world but very few people in the world watch it as there is no coverage or interest. But basing its stand only on that is a wrong one.Its strengths are its skills to organize races. So if new races are being developed, ASO should try to get a piece of the pie.
As long as this standoff continues, cycling is doomed to languish

I don't disagree with your analysis, I am just speaking from the point of view of a fan. If I was involved in the sport in any kind of commercial way, I'm pretty sure I would have a different opinion.

But as a fan: I don't care if new markets remain unexploited. I don't care if cycling doesn't grow. I don't care if the whole caper is deeply idiosyncratic and unprofitable. The only thing I really care about with respect to these issues, is that the sport retains some semblance of its 'sportness.' i.e. that it does not become a completely hollowed out commodity to be traded according to whatever yields the greatest profits. This is indeed as a naive a sentiment as one could possibly dream up, given that every sport in the neo-liberal age has become utterly capitalised to the extent that scarcely anything but capital is watched when one watches 'sport.' But nonetheless, I hold this sentiment, and I stand behind it, and I realise that the horse bolted a long time ago anyway.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Imbecile nationalism is precisely as attractive from the French as it is from "Anglo-Saxons".

The more you read into Madiot's comments the more you can see that it's not imbecile Nationalism - it's truth. Look at the races all the pros want to win, and all the spectators want to see, with real history and lasting memories. Where are they?

Some of the obvious examples:

France:

Paris Nice
Paris Roubaix
Criterium du Dauphine
Paris Tours

Italy:

Milan San Remo
Tirreno Adriatico
Toscano
Giro d'Italia
Giro d'Lombardia

Spain:

Pais Vasco
Catalunya
San Sebastian
La Vuelta

Belgium/Holland

Omloop
K-B-K
Flanders
Liege
Fleche Wallone
Amstel
Eneco

You can't manufacture the history and the following of these events, no matter how hard you try. To make new races work, and I mean REALLY work you need to look at places where there is a cycling community that will nurture and follow the race right from its inception.

The TDU has this, partly through choice of city and calendar placing, but it has grown thanks to a resurgence of cycling in Australia and the UCI has identified this by rewarding the race with HC, and later WT status. GP Montreal and Quebec have worked because the race organisers chose cities with their own cycling culture and European roots (it also helps that the organisers have used the cities themselves well in creating an attractive race, showing the landscape nicely). Strade Bianche has exploded as well, because it is a beautiful race and the white roads are used in the Giro and other races so rarely, creating a unique event.

But Qatar? Oman? Beijing? Abu Dhabi? Idiotic choices of races. Poor conditions (smog, heat), poor crowds, poor interest - even from the riders, unless they were chasing WT points. Of these races only Oman has a vaguely interesting parlours. Money is/was the only reason to race there.

If the UCI wants a well known, well run, established stage race in Asia they should be talking to Tour de Langkawi, or the Japanese Federation. Langkawi is a solid race, that already gets a decent field, well run and well attended. Malaysia has a solid cycling fan base that is growing solidly and has some very good athletes in the sport such as Azizul Awang. Japan has been contributing some solid riders for a while now such as Arashiro and Beppu as well as being the home of Shimano and several other high end brands. The Saitama criterium has worked well so far and there are growing stage races. The UCI has also made little to no attempt in South America as well, despite success of the Tour de San Luis and the recent success of the current young Colombian riders.

I honestly don't blame ASO for wanting to protect their product at all. If the UCI continues to show poor judgement and insist on making short term cash grabs at the expense of established races, riders and teams they need to be brought into line for it. ASO don't care if they get their races downgraded to HC, it means that they no longer have to invite teams that can't respect their races anymore.

Why should teams without classics riders get an automatic invite to Roubaix? Why should teams with only classics riders/sprinters get automatic invites to the Grand Tours?

This is a great move by ASO to get the UCI to put more thought into where it is going. The riders are too afraid to do it, the team managers refuse to work together (some, like Failsfraud, don't even bother to participate :roll eyes: ), so who else does it leave?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Unipublic follows ASO as expected. Wonder if they have to invite all of the six portuguese continental teams.

That would actually increase the racing again. More teams which are actually interested in the race as a season goal like it used to be pre 2005. As well as stronger second division teams with decent leaders that prefer to play a major role in their grand tour as a captain of a smaller team, rather than being a domestique on a bigger squad.

It would be the same with the Giro actually. So weirdly enough actually it's the ASO which could cause more challenging fields at the other grand tours if the new owner of RCS decides to exclude his races from the WT as well.

Bingo. How ridiculous was it watching Euskaltel embarrass themselves at Paris Roubaix and Flanders? RadioShack's decision not to race the Giro? HTC disappearing the second the road pointed up? Useless 2nd string teams turning up to the Giro or Vuelta? More teams that are willing and able to contest the race as a spectacle are always welcome and good Pro Conti teams with something to lose would fill that gap much better.

With so many of the sports top events it might even lead to riders being willing to take a chance on Pro Continental teams and more opportunities for young riders. Somebody has to shake this sport up, and the riders and team managers have shown themselves to be unable/unwilling to stand up and make a move.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

One day I will translate Madiot's book chapter about the globalization of cycling, and you will understand French point of view.

Here's some quotes I picked (I don't know if my translation is always accurate).
Hope it explains part of ASO's thinking about the sport.

Le Tour de France, it’s the world looking at cycling’s cradle.
Le Tour de France is the keystone of the sport. It is cycling’s jowel, France’s jowel. The Anglo-Saxon have to deal with it, and that is a big problem for them. Like it or not, France is the centre of cycling’s world. Let me add Italy, Belgium, Spain and Netherlands to that list. All these countries are cycling’s roots. I’m sorry Mr.Englishmen, but you didn’t invent this sport and you are not cycling’s roots. You may govern it, but you didn’t invent it and you must take that into account.

One day, I was in a commission with Pat McQuaid when ideas of races in China were in the air. We evoked Giro di Lombardia and especially the Italian preparation races. He didn’t care about them.
I told him : « Pat, you can’t do that! They are in the calendar for fifty years! »
He asked me : « Are they World Tour? »
Me : « No. »
Him : « Then I don’t care. »
It is grievous to say that. I can’t stand their mentality. I do not agree. And four years later, we don’t go to China anymore, meanwhile we are letting European races die.

In the 2000s, UCI intended to establish cycling on all continents : Oceania (Tour Down Under), America (GP Québec, GP Montréal), Asia (Tour de Pékin). Isn’t that a formidable promotion for a universal sport?
Those races develop and persist only if they have a cycling DNA. Montréal, there’s a DNA. It’s a circuit race, with Mont Royal. It can work and it will work. Pékin looks like nothing. No public. It’s prefabricated. No local roots, no links with the country. Why is it still working in Australia? Because there’s a link with the country.

Why are you so critical of the Anglo-Saxon ?
I have nothing against the people but I don’t share their vision for cycling. Because they think in term of ‘efficiency’ and ‘productivity’. Because they didn’t invent cycling and didn’t have hundred years of cycling behind them.

We have a beautiful country, the best calendar in the world, and the best race in the world in the middle of Paris – Roubaix, Paris – Nice and Dauphiné. They come to race here in France. They are invited. They are not the ones who decide. It’s a power struggle once again.

Patrick Lefevere, Dave Brailsford, and all that band : I’m not in their crew. They wanted me to join Velon, but it was to shut me up. Lefevere likes cycling but wants to make business. He dared to say : « Today, cycling is no different, the big eat the small ». So, if you’re small, you have the one and only right to die. I don’t stop anyone from being big, but I consider that everyone has the right to eat.

Back in March, Oleg Tinkov said that pro cycling is a show that has to be inspired by the best in the field (football, formula one, tennis)…
It’s the same thing, we don’t share the same vision. In the sport automobile, there’s a lot of money at the head of the pyramid, but the bottom of the pyramid doesn’t exist. Cycling must not mimic that. The elite has to feed the rest. Conversely, I don’t think that the bottom need to expect everything from the head. Everyone must contribute.

In order to be known, foreign teams come to race in France to take what is good to take. Once they gain access to Le Tour de France, they don’t come to race here again. It’s not normal, it’s too easy. You don’t leave like that, you don’t let people die like that.

Did you talk with Team Sky manager, Dave Brailsford?
I barely know him. He never comes, we never saw him. They don’t care.

What relationship do you have with the leaders of world cycling?
Any. With Brian Cookson, it’s « bonjour, bonsoir » at the meetings. I come. To annoy them. And I ask them one question : « If I have 20 millions euros of budget with FDJ tomorrow, great riders in my team, and I don’t want to be part of the World Tour, what happens? »
They don’t like when I ask this. Let’s dream a little : I have 20 millions, the best riders in the world. What am I doing? I leave World Tour and I race wherever I want.

He's so right.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Unipublic follows ASO as expected. Wonder if they have to invite all of the six portuguese continental teams.

That would actually increase the racing again. More teams which are actually interested in the race as a season goal like it used to be pre 2005. As well as stronger second division teams with decent leaders that prefer to play a major role in their grand tour as a captain of a smaller team, rather than being a domestique on a bigger squad.

It would be the same with the Giro actually. So weirdly enough actually it's the ASO which could cause more challenging fields at the other grand tours if the new owner of RCS decides to exclude his races from the WT as well.

Bingo. How ridiculous was it watching Euskaltel embarrass themselves at Paris Roubaix and Flanders? RadioShack's decision not to race the Giro? HTC disappearing the second the road pointed up? Useless 2nd string teams turning up to the Giro or Vuelta? More teams that are willing and able to contest the race as a spectacle are always welcome and good Pro Conti teams with something to lose would fill that gap much better.

With so many of the sports top events it might even lead to riders being willing to take a chance on Pro Continental teams and more opportunities for young riders. Somebody has to shake this sport up, and the riders and team managers have shown themselves to be unable/unwilling to stand up and make a move.

That's why I don't understand Dimension Data. They have Cavendish and Boasson Hagen. Why did they move to World Tour? With Cavendish in the team, a TDF spot is secured. With Boasson Hagen in the team, a Classics spot is secured. With Anton in the team, a Vuelta spot is likely to be secured.

Now they are bound to go in races they probably don't want to be in.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Unipublic follows ASO as expected. Wonder if they have to invite all of the six portuguese continental teams.

That would actually increase the racing again. More teams which are actually interested in the race as a season goal like it used to be pre 2005. As well as stronger second division teams with decent leaders that prefer to play a major role in their grand tour as a captain of a smaller team, rather than being a domestique on a bigger squad.

It would be the same with the Giro actually. So weirdly enough actually it's the ASO which could cause more challenging fields at the other grand tours if the new owner of RCS decides to exclude his races from the WT as well.

Bingo. How ridiculous was it watching Euskaltel embarrass themselves at Paris Roubaix and Flanders? RadioShack's decision not to race the Giro? HTC disappearing the second the road pointed up? Useless 2nd string teams turning up to the Giro or Vuelta? More teams that are willing and able to contest the race as a spectacle are always welcome and good Pro Conti teams with something to lose would fill that gap much better.

With so many of the sports top events it might even lead to riders being willing to take a chance on Pro Continental teams and more opportunities for young riders. Somebody has to shake this sport up, and the riders and team managers have shown themselves to be unable/unwilling to stand up and make a move.

That's why I don't understand Dimension Data. They have Cavendish and Boasson Hagen. Why did they move to World Tour? With Cavendish in the team, a TDF spot is secured. With Boasson Hagen in the team, a Classics spot is secured. With Anton in the team, a Vuelta spot is likely to be secured.

Now they are bound to go in races they probably don't want to be in.

Dimension Data are actually one of the teams I'm less worried about in this regard. They have a reasonable squad for lowlands and the TdF based around the likes of Cavendish, EBH, Farrar and Eisel then they have Anton, Pauwels, Fraile, Kudus, Haas, Cummings and Teklehaimanot to ride the Giro/Vuelta/Ardennes.

It's the likes of Lampre, Ag2r, Lotto and Lotto - Jumbo that bother me more.

 

[Echoes]

Madiot does have some nationalistic tendencies (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he's not really consistent in my opinion). What I like best with him is that how he defied both the "Society of the Tour of France" and the European Union when he cut off the Euro flag on his dossard, every morning. That was the 1987 Bore de France if I'm not mistaken. Some left-wing posters are defending him here but Madiot is definitely a right-winger. I opted against buying his book because I can't really afford it and because I saw that he considered Bernard Tapie a man of honour. That's too much for me.

This being said, I see here that masks are falling, some posters are openly admitting their globalist views. &#128528 Everybody his opinion. But whether they like it or not, I'm desperately looking forward to seeing a Liege-Bastogne-Liège with 50% of the field being Belgian and with at least 7 or 8 Belgian teams. Not for tomorrow but this presupposes a complete abolition of the World Tour which has completed the destruction of cycling in all Europe. Younger posters here cannot realize how violent and elitist it is for the UCI to impose a blend of 18 multinational teams to take part in a blend of 30 races that they consider the best at the detriment of all the others.

Only race organizers should be entitled to elect the teams that they want to see entering their races. It's none of the UCI's business. It's a scandal that small Belgian teams such as Veranclassic or Wallonie-Bruxelles are uneligible to race OUR biggest classics and the orgas are forced to invite a South African team instead (nothing against MTN Qubeka but it's logical that Belgian teams should get the priority in Belgium). Italy has so many continental teams which are automatically excluded from Italian WT races. It's a massive scandal. Call me a natio, if you want, it's not gonna change my opinion.

 

[MatParker1711]

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

 

[pastronef]

Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Cannondale Orica LottoNL and Fortuneo (bretagne) are missing

Lampre too, but I dont mind

 

[MatParker1711]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Cannondale Orica LottoNL and Fortuneo (bretagne) are missing

Lampre too, but I dont mind

Who do you think FVC is?

 

[Alexandre B.]

CPA (international association of riders), presided by Gianni Bugno, said no to the reform in its current format.

http://www.cyclingpro.net/velopro/road/les-coureurs-disent-non-a-l-uci (french)
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/?page=news&cod=85792&tp=n (italian)

Without riders and most race organizers on her side, UCI will have to step back.

What the hell happened in Barcelona!?

The statement :
With this release the intends to respond to the declaration of the UCI of these recent days regarding the decision of the ASO to exit the World Tour circuit. The CPA does not agree with the UCI saying that the Reform was adopted with the consent of all parties of cycling, including the riders.

The association of the riders was in fact in favor of it but as long as all stakeholders, including the organizers, were also in favor of the new Reform. The CPA has noticed in recent weeks that the organizers and especially the ASO, are unwilling to accept the new guidelines of the UCI which are radically different from the original project.

The CPA believes it is essential that the UCI takes into account the proposals of the different parties and especially that it respects the history of this sport which the UCI shall organize with sporting spirit and morality.

The president Gianni Bugno also complains that the UCI has not deigned to respond and take a position on the letter sent by the CPA on the case of the Velon document (Velon addendum), unacceptable and unlawful in regards of the rights of the athletes. The CPA questions the silence of the UCI, especially towards the riders. 
The association of the riders expressly asks the UCI to open the dialogue with all parties who have a sincere desire to participate constructively in the Reform of cycling, to give our sport the respect it deserves.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Astana will never make the cut if the ASO can pick & choose as the only requirement for HC races is "no more than 70% of WT teams" (especially with Nib gone). Technically, they don't even have to invite any WT team and the TDF can be ridden by 20 Conti teams.

My guess: 12 WT teams, 7 PC teams and 3 Conti teams (Auber 93, Lille Metropole + French Nats)

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Astana will never make the cut if the ASO can pick & choose as the only requirement for HC races is "no more than 70% of WT teams" (especially with Nib gone). Technically, they don't even have to invite any WT team and the TDF can be ridden by 20 Conti teams.

My guess: 12 WT teams, 7 PC teams and 3 Conti teams (Auber 93, Lille Metropole + French Nats)

Astana ain't got no business at the 2017 Tour, anyway. They simply ain't got no leader for it if Nibali is gone. No need to send Fug at all.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

Honest question, Who's the lesser evil, the UCI or ASO?

I was thinking in those terms too- The lesser devil IMO is ASO, since they're essentially race owners and organizers abiding the UCI, which is the overall sport's regulator, which thereby give them more power & authority to impose rules on races, set the anti doping rules, scramble the races calendar, give priority to some, add unnecessary ones, force riders to ride races not in their interest, etc.--all that as they see it fits their very own interests. The problem with ASO is purely the monopoly of the main races, as they seem keen to buy out as many races as they can while taking advantage of the economical environment going on in Europe.

The way I see the conflict between those two is merely calendar & race priorities, in which ASO is entitled to defend, since they own the very best, and therefore is not in their interest to give up their rightful place in the year's calendar, their length, which teams should be invited, how the races should be organized, etc. UCI OTOH as always- wants to "shove" new races in to cash out while cutting of the existing ones and make more tight the calendar without neither the fundamentals to support the changes, nor the teams & organizers POV.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Cannondale Orica LottoNL and Fortuneo (bretagne) are missing

Lampre too, but I dont mind

Who do you think FVC is?

Funvic?

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Astana will never make the cut if the ASO can pick & choose as the only requirement for HC races is "no more than 70% of WT teams" (especially with Nib gone). Technically, they don't even have to invite any WT team and the TDF can be ridden by 20 Conti teams.

My guess: 12 WT teams, 7 PC teams and 3 Conti teams (Auber 93, Lille Metropole + French Nats)

Astana ain't got no business at the 2017 Tour, anyway. They simply ain't got no leader for it if Nibali is gone. No need to send Fug at all.

Aru?
not that I care if he races or not. yes, but maybe if Nibs leaves, Aru will race the Giro again

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Astana will never make the cut if the ASO can pick & choose as the only requirement for HC races is "no more than 70% of WT teams" (especially with Nib gone). Technically, they don't even have to invite any WT team and the TDF can be ridden by 20 Conti teams.

My guess: 12 WT teams, 7 PC teams and 3 Conti teams (Auber 93, Lille Metropole + French Nats)

Astana ain't got no business at the 2017 Tour, anyway. They simply ain't got no leader for it if Nibali is gone. No need to send Fug at all.

Aru?
not that I care if he races or not. yes, but maybe if Nibs leaves, Aru will race the Giro again

100th Giro! Aru ain't gonna ride the Tour 2017 even if he was the reigning champion. Zero chance.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

2017 Tour?:
Sky, BMC, FDJ, EQS, Giant, Trek, AG2R, Movistar, Dimension Data, Astana, Lotto, Direct Energie, FVC, Bora, Stoltling, Cofidis, Delko, CCC, Wanty, French National

Astana will never make the cut if the ASO can pick & choose as the only requirement for HC races is "no more than 70% of WT teams" (especially with Nib gone). Technically, they don't even have to invite any WT team and the TDF can be ridden by 20 Conti teams.

My guess: 12 WT teams, 7 PC teams and 3 Conti teams (Auber 93, Lille Metropole + French Nats)

Astana ain't got no business at the 2017 Tour, anyway. They simply ain't got no leader for it if Nibali is gone. No need to send Fug at all.

Aru?
not that I care if he races or not. yes, but maybe if Nibs leaves, Aru will race the Giro again

100th Giro! Aru ain't gonna ride the Tour 2017 even if he was the reigning champion. Zero chance.

ah ok ok, 100th Giro edition I forgot that.
I hope he WILL NOT be the reigning Tour champion

 

[Jspear]

The UCI, too, has little leverage, but it can bring its own rules and regulations to bear.

ASO plans to place its races under the second-tier HC category, where races like the Amgen Tour of California and USA Pro Challenge currently reside. However, a UCI rule stipulates that new HC races can only be five days long.

It’s unclear whether the Tour would be considered a “new” HC race. But Vaughters suggested that the UCI could alter its rule to require that all HC races be limited to five days, which he said “would throw a fox in the henhouse.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...gives-aso-a-big-edge-in-power-struggle_391559

Is there any sort of loop hole through this. How can you not call the Tour a new HC race?

 

[Inquitus]

Surely for Pro Cycling to be viable the teams need to have some sort of stability, not knowing if you are going to get an invite to the biggest races is not going to encourage sponsors to throw money at teams. No good will come of this.

 

[The Hegelian]

Madiot does have some nationalistic tendencies (which is certainly not a bad thing, but he's not really consistent in my opinion). What I like best with him is that how he defied both the "Society of the Tour of France" and the European Union when he cut off the Euro flag on his dossard, every morning. That was the 1987 Bore de France if I'm not mistaken. Some left-wing posters are defending him here but Madiot is definitely a right-winger. I opted against buying his book because I can't really afford it and because I saw that he considered Bernard Tapie a man of honour. That's too much for me.

This being said, I see here that masks are falling, some posters are openly admitting their globalist views. &#128528 Everybody his opinion. But whether they like it or not, I'm desperately looking forward to seeing a Liege-Bastogne-Liège with 50% of the field being Belgian and with at least 7 or 8 Belgian teams. Not for tomorrow but this presupposes a complete abolition of the World Tour which has completed the destruction of cycling in all Europe. Younger posters here cannot realize how violent and elitist it is for the UCI to impose a blend of 18 multinational teams to take part in a blend of 30 races that they consider the best at the detriment of all the others.

Only race organizers should be entitled to elect the teams that they want to see entering their races. It's none of the UCI's business. It's a scandal that small Belgian teams such as Veranclassic or Wallonie-Bruxelles are uneligible to race OUR biggest classics and the orgas are forced to invite a South African team instead (nothing against MTN Qubeka but it's logical that Belgian teams should get the priority in Belgium). Italy has so many continental teams which are automatically excluded from Italian WT races. It's a massive scandal. Call me a natio, if you want, it's not gonna change my opinion.

Good post. I'm one of the lefties, and there is indeed a strange inconsistency with supporting a Euro-centric traditional version of pro-cycling. Namely, that it is a conservative venture literally to preserve and conserve the historical roots of the sports, against a drive to progress it and transform it into something more inclusive and global. This is a political logic which does in some ways mirror the resurgence of various forms of (usually pernicious) nationalism in the context of ever increasing globalisation. But I would argue that a sport is very different from a nation-state. The reason for expanding it and making it global is profit driven pure and simple - and as a fan, it is obvious to me that when sports become purely and simply governed by profit seeking, they cease to exist as sports. They become hollowed out, empty, vacuous events of corporate branding: entertainment enough to sell advertising, conditioned entirely by media spaces which generate the value and therefore the profit. This is so evidently not good for any true fan of the sport.

 

[IndianCyclist]

One thing i donot understand. Can RCS for eg not step in and create its own LBL or PR or any other race?