Astana, Contador, Armstrong, Bruyneel and Next Year

[Anonymous]

Because this will likely slide down the dope talk path I'll start this here in the clinic.

Check this out;

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/

FERNANDO ALONSO'S CYCLING PLAN
August 27 - Red Bull to sponsor new cycling team?

The initiative is hitting a barrier, however, that will surely postpone its birth until 2011. Alberto Contador, two-time winner of the Tour (2009 and 2007) and the best cyclist in the world, has a contract in force for one more year with Astana, through an entity called Olympus. Participating in it are both Johan Bruyneel (current director of the team) and the government of Kazakhstan.

Bruyneel and Armstrong

Bruyneel will leave Astana next season in order to form Lance Armstrong’s new team, RadioShack. And Contador is, these days, negotiating with the Kazakhs for an exit from the team. Armstrong is going to take the principal riders who have contributed to making Astana an impenetrable force in the Tour. Klöden, Leipheimer, Zubeldia and Popovych want to go with Armstrong, but they but they have contracts. Paulinho, faithful to Contador, was free and has signed with RadioShack.

The winner of the Tour is afraid to remain on the scene without qualified personnel for next summer, in the event that everyone finally abandons Astana. And furthermore, there’s the subject of Vinokourov. The Tour banned the Madrileño last year due to the Kazakh's positive drug test in 2007. And Vinokourov has returned to the peloton. He will ride the Vuelta, which starts on Saturday in Holland.

Contador’s support riders fear the consequences of breaking contracts unilaterally. They also doubt that Alonso can put together a cycling team in scarcely four months time, and start riding as early as next January. Offers are also being fielded from Garmin, who are offering him a salary of €4,000,000, and from Eusebio Unzué’s Caisse d’Epargne, who are looking for a secondary sponsor to finance the scheme.

“Alonso appeals to us”

“What we find most appealing is going with Fernando Alonso, because it’s a serious plan and cycling needs a breath of fresh air,” say Contador’s advisors. The cyclist is still thinking about a third option, which fits together all the pieces of the puzzle: staying for another year at Astana and giving Fernando Alonso time to form his team definitively for 2011.



OK. It has been theorized that AC may get stuck at Astana, without much of a team, without a ProTour License and with Vino as SERIOUS baggage. Vino on Astana in 2010 gives the ASO a great reason not to invite them to the TdF.

Has LA already won this thing? Has LA boxed AC in to a corner where the defending TdF champion is not invited again?

Has this been orchestrated? If so, what does this mean for AC?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this... what do you think?

 

[bianchigirl]

When Armstrong has McQuaid in his pocket and the ASO playing lapdog for the dollars I don't think the supposition that Armstrong would be delighted to keep Contador out of the Tour by any means necessary is too far fetched.

I'm interested in how Olympus can break anyone else's contract so they can go and ride for Team Cack but Contador is negotiating with the Kazakh's - does Bruyneel not hold his contract, then?

 

[Bala Verde]

Wasn't Bruyneel still under contract with AST till 2010/11? If so, how would he leave?

 

[Anonymous]

When Armstrong has McQuaid in his pocket and the ASO playing lapdog for the dollars I don't think the supposition that Armstrong would be delighted to keep Contador out of the Tour by any means necessary is too far fetched.

I'm interested in how Olympus can break anyone else's contract so they can go and ride for Team Cack but Contador is negotiating with the Kazakh's - does Bruyneel not hold his contract, then?

I think Olympus/SARL has contracts with the bulk of riders but AC and a few others (Zubeldia?) are signed with Astana.

I think Vino coming back the way he did has blown this team apart. I don't think Astana will look anything like it did this year.

I find it interesting how AC is acknowledging the poor situation he's in. If Astana hold AC to his contract, which it appears they are going to do, he will not have a overly strong team and may not be invited to the TdF next year which will be stunning.

 

[Anonymous]

Wasn't Bruyneel still under contract with AST till 2010/11? If so, how would he leave?

Don't know for sure but I've read (on other threads) where his contract with Astana has stipulations regarding Vino's return. Probably some sort of "out" clause.

At any rate, Bruyneel is with LA at The Shack.

 

[scribe]

I think Olympus/SARL has contracts with the bulk of riders but AC and a few others (Zubeldia?) are signed with Astana.

I think Vino coming back the way he did has blown this team apart. I don't think Astana will look anything like it did this year.

I find it interesting how AC is acknowledging the poor situation he's in. If Astana hold AC to his contract, which it appears they are going to do, he will not have a overly strong team and may not be invited to the TdF next year which will be stunning.

Astana has lots of problems that would prevent them from getting serious invitations next season. However, Contador is not one of those problems. In fact, he is their only card if they are serious about remaining a professional team. It is no wonder they are determined to keep him on board for the remainder of his contract. To let him go is the kiss of death.

 

[scribe]

Has LA already won this thing? Has LA boxed AC in to a corner where the defending TdF champion is not invited again?

Has this been orchestrated? If so, what does this mean for AC?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this... what do you think?

paraphrasing a bit here, but I don't think it is too detrimental to the original message. I think circumstance alone is working against Contador's favor rather than team Armstrong. There is no way TdF fails to invite this returning champion for the second time. Vino would have to initiate a mega-negative publicity blitz against tour organizers for this to come to fruition. But I wouldn't rule that out entirely, nor be surprised if Vino manages this.

Armstrong can do everything right in the world, but it seems unlikely this will give him the necessary edge to beat Contador when it matters. You gotta admit, it is gonna be very interesting to watch.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Don't forget, Astana served their ASO Tour ban for Vino, back in '08.
Remember when folks all got their panties in a bundle over the Hog not being allowed to run off with the entire podium? (again)

So, I'd be surprised if the ASO instigated another Astana ban, just because Vino is back.

Contador may well have more problems scraping a decent squad together. Especially if that nice Mr Prudhomme insists upon inflicting another one of those heavy handicap Team Time trials on us.......

 

[Dude17]

Don't forget, Astana served their ASO Tour ban for Vino, back in '08.
Remember when folks all got their panties in a bundle over the Hog not being allowed to run off with the entire podium? (again)

So, I'd be surprised if the ASO instigated another Astana ban, just because Vino is back.

Contador may well have more problems scraping a decent squad together. Especially if that nice Mr Prudhomme insists upon inflicting another one of those heavy handicap Team Time trials on us.......

I agree. I think ASO will let Astana know that they will not be pleased if Vino is on the Tour team, however.

Contador signed the contract with Astana. As far as I know, no one forced him to do it. The events, with regard to Vino's return, was pretty predictable. That JB would choose to not be in place when Vino comes back isn't a surprise either. The only thing Contador couldn't foresee was LA coming back and starting a new team and stripping away a lot of riders.

All that said, I hope they work out a deal that let's him ride where he'd "like" next year. I don't see Astana being the place to make him happy.

 

[workingclasshero]

Not sure how Alonso will run a cycling team and drive for Ferrari at the same time. If this goes ahead, if he doesn't perform next year there will be trouble at mill.

yawn

 

[workingclasshero]

Have you tried modafinil?

yawn

 

[Publicus]

Because this will likely slide down the dope talk path I'll start this here in the clinic.

Check this out;

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/

FERNANDO ALONSO'S CYCLING PLAN
August 27 - Red Bull to sponsor new cycling team?

The initiative is hitting a barrier, however, that will surely postpone its birth until 2011. Alberto Contador, two-time winner of the Tour (2009 and 2007) and the best cyclist in the world, has a contract in force for one more year with Astana, through an entity called Olympus. Participating in it are both Johan Bruyneel (current director of the team) and the government of Kazakhstan.

Bruyneel and Armstrong

Bruyneel will leave Astana next season in order to form Lance Armstrong’s new team, RadioShack. And Contador is, these days, negotiating with the Kazakhs for an exit from the team. Armstrong is going to take the principal riders who have contributed to making Astana an impenetrable force in the Tour. Klöden, Leipheimer, Zubeldia and Popovych want to go with Armstrong, but they but they have contracts. Paulinho, faithful to Contador, was free and has signed with RadioShack.

The winner of the Tour is afraid to remain on the scene without qualified personnel for next summer, in the event that everyone finally abandons Astana. And furthermore, there’s the subject of Vinokourov. The Tour banned the Madrileño last year due to the Kazakh's positive drug test in 2007. And Vinokourov has returned to the peloton. He will ride the Vuelta, which starts on Saturday in Holland.

Contador’s support riders fear the consequences of breaking contracts unilaterally. They also doubt that Alonso can put together a cycling team in scarcely four months time, and start riding as early as next January. Offers are also being fielded from Garmin, who are offering him a salary of €4,000,000, and from Eusebio Unzué’s Caisse d’Epargne, who are looking for a secondary sponsor to finance the scheme.

“Alonso appeals to us”

“What we find most appealing is going with Fernando Alonso, because it’s a serious plan and cycling needs a breath of fresh air,” say Contador’s advisors. The cyclist is still thinking about a third option, which fits together all the pieces of the puzzle: staying for another year at Astana and giving Fernando Alonso time to form his team definitively for 2011.



OK. It has been theorized that AC may get stuck at Astana, without much of a team, without a ProTour License and with Vino as SERIOUS baggage. Vino on Astana in 2010 gives the ASO a great reason not to invite them to the TdF.

Has LA already won this thing? Has LA boxed AC in to a corner where the defending TdF champion is not invited again?

Has this been orchestrated? If so, what does this mean for AC?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this... what do you think?

All of this is predicated on the accuracy of the above referenced information:

Seems to me if Kloden, Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Popo and I believe Horner actually have contracts with Astana and Astana refuses to break them, then AC riding out the final year of his contract is a no brainer. Hell, if they don't let JB out of his contract, then essentially you are back to the pre-Armstrong return Astana. The obvious issue is what legal rights JB has because of Vino's return. Everyone is citing that he didn't have to take back Vino, but I also recall that he didn't want Kloden as well. Does his acceptance of Kloden, negate his ability to walk because of the return of Vino? Who knows.

Frankly, if the Kazakh's were smart, they would force EVERYONE who has an enforceable contract with them (that includes JB) to stay through the year.

Btw, 4MM Euros per year is a pretty sweet deal for Contador and demonstrates just how serious Garmin is about signing him.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you tried modafinil?

Trollkraft at its finest I tell ya'.

 

[Anonymous]

All of this is predicated on the accuracy of the above referenced information:

Seems to me if Kloden, Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Popo and I believe Horner actually have contracts with Astana and Astana refuses to break them, then AC riding out the final year of his contract is a no brainer. Hell, if they don't let JB out of his contract, then essentially you are back to the pre-Armstrong return Astana. The obvious issue is what legal rights JB has because of Vino's return. Everyone is citing that he didn't have to take back Vino, but I also recall that he didn't want Kloden as well. Does his acceptance of Kloden, negate his ability to walk because of the return of Vino? Who knows.

Frankly, if the Kazakh's were smart, they would force EVERYONE who has an enforceable contract with them (that includes JB) to stay through the year.

Btw, 4MM Euros per year is a pretty sweet deal for Contador and demonstrates just how serious Garmin is about signing him.

Nothing's definite, but....

It appears that Bruyneel is at RadioShack. IMO, that's a done deal. It also appears that the bulk of the horsepower on Astana this year had a contract with Olympus and will likely wind up at RadioShack (I'm guessing). Horner attempted to get out of his contract with Bruyneel after his Tour non-selection and I think his contract was up at the end of this year anyway.

It also appears as though the current Astana infrastructure is moving to RadioShack further compounding AC's problems. No manager, DS's, mechanics, soigneurs, bikes, suppliers etc., etc. So, to me at least, Astana may be starting over with AC, Vino, Zubeldia and a few others.

 

[Publicus]

Nothing's definite, but....

It appears that Bruyneel is at RadioShack. IMO, that's a done deal. It also appears that the bulk of the horsepower on Astana this year had a contract with Olympus and will likely wind up at RadioShack (I'm guessing). Horner attempted to get out of his contract with Bruyneel after his Tour non-selection and I think his contract was up at the end of this year anyway.

It also appears as though the current Astana infrastructure is moving to RadioShack further compounding AC's problems. No manager, DS's, mechanics, soigneurs, bikes, suppliers etc., etc. So, to me at least, Astana may be starting over with AC, Vino, Zubeldia and a few others.

If that is in fact true, then AC will be riding with Garmin or Caisse next year since Astana won't have a team to field. It seems to me though, that the facts are some where in the middle or slightly closer to the Kazakh side of things. In that, I believe that JB et al believes that with the return of Vino, the KCF will want to resume control of the team and gladly give them their walking papers (allowing them to sign with whomever). Which could ultimately be the case. However, I think if they (KCF) are serious about retaining AC for next year (in essence to ensure that Vino has a team), why would they let ANY of them go?

Obviously we are all speculating upon the basis of partial information (which is all we have) until Tuesday. Personally, I hope JB and his fellows end up at RadioShack and Contador ends up at Garmin, with Astana disappearing or becoming a ProConti team.

 

[Dude17]

Obviously we are all speculating upon the basis of partial information (which is all we have) until Tuesday. Personally, I hope JB and his fellows end up at RadioShack and Contador ends up at Garmin, with Astana disappearing or becoming a ProConti team.

As far as JB, wasn't it announced either during the Tour or soon after that JB and Astana had mutually agreed that he would leave at the end of the season?

 

[Publicus]

As far as JB, wasn't it announced either during the Tour or soon after that JB and Astana had mutually agreed that he would leave at the end of the season?

Don't recall that. The most recent article I recall was the one that confirmed him for Team RadioShack in the title, but the body of the article said that he had to negotiate a release from his contract, which like Contador's, runs through the end of the 2010 season.

 

[Dude17]

Don't recall that. The most recent article I recall was the one that confirmed him for Team RadioShack in the title, but the body of the article said that he had to negotiate a release from his contract, which like Contador's, runs through the end of the 2010 season.

from Velonews July 21, 2009

Doesn't say mutually agreed, but I thought there was another report a few weeks (?) later that said it was finalized. If I find it, I'll post it.

EDIT: Didn't find one that said mutually agreed. Similar article on the same day from L'Equipe. A bit more a quote from JB in this one.

 

[Publicus]

from Velonews July 21, 2009

Doesn't say mutually agreed, but I thought there was another report a few weeks (?) later that said it was finalized. If I find it, I'll post it.

EDIT: Didn't find one that said mutually agreed. Similar article on the same day from L'Equipe. A bit more a quote from JB in this one.

Here was the article I referred to above regarding Bruyneel's status. It could be that everything is finalized and waiting until Sept 1 to be inked.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruyneel-confirmed-for-team-radioshack

 

[Publicus]

I found this quote from the same article very interesting:

The initiative is hitting a barrier, however, that will surely postpone its birth until 2011. Alberto Contador, two-time winner of the Tour (2009 and 2007) and the best cyclist in the world, has a contract in force for one more year with Astana, through an entity called Olympus. Participating in it are both Johan Bruyneel (current director of the team) and the government of Kazakhstan

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/

Which raises the question, is it just up to KCF to release AC or is JB an impediment too? Or if JB severs his agreement, does it effectively release AC? My guess is ALL of the contracts are structured this way and KCF will lose a slew of riders when/if JB is released.

 

[scribe]

I found this quote from the same article very interesting:



http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/

Which raises the question, is it just up to KCF to release AC or is JB an impediment too? Or if JB severs his agreement, does it effectively release AC? My guess is ALL of the contracts are structured this way and KCF will lose a slew of riders when/if JB is released.

No way to know the details and structure of those agreements. I am very sure that all this will shake out according to those agreements. It seems likely that nearly all of the diesels are free to leave contractually, JB is free to leave, but Contador is being made to stay.

I'd add one last tidbit. Astana was founded to be built around Vino and/or other Kazakh riders. Vino has stated he wanted JB gone. I think the Kazakhs were all too eager to let him out.

 

[Publicus]

No way to know the details and structure of those agreements. I am very sure that all this will shake out according to those agreements. It seems likely that nearly all of the diesels are free to leave contractually, JB is free to leave, but Contador is being made to stay.

I'd add one last tidbit. Astana was founded to be built around Vino and/or other Kazakh riders. Vino has stated he wanted JB gone. I think the Kazakhs were all too eager to let him out.

So everyone can leave, but somehow Contador is uniquely bound? Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I guess it is within the realm of possibility.

 

[scribe]

So everyone can leave, but somehow Contador is uniquely bound? Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I guess it is within the realm of possibility.

It's possible because it looks like it is happening.

 

[Publicus]

It's possible because it looks like it is happening.

I'm not as confident as you, given the amount of conflicting information floating around and unverifiable speculation being passed as fact. But as I said, it is within the realm of possibility.

 

[racerralph]

Imagine if the news we got every day, about the world around us: politics, world affairs, financial news, baseball scores, movie schedules, blah, blah, blah, was as unverifiable as all the "news" stories we get about this sport. Wow, we wouldn't know which end was up, most of the time.
It's a shadow world, where the only thing that is real, is what you see on the road, until, of course, they get busted doping