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BikeCentric said:
hes thinking.. "what good prep this is to back to full strength for the tour, and what can i do to help levi out and make sure he wins the giro"
talk about mountains and molehills..
are you guys still confusing the out for four year, broken collarbone, riding giro to build up for tour, armsttrong, with seven time tour winner...
i give up.. i just completely and utterly give up...
actually..this is going to be my last thought on the matter in this thread.. there are people round here, and its taken me a while to twig, say stuff just for the sake of a) amusing themselves b) hoping for a reaction c) oh god knows..
firstly.. this was meant to be a discussion of the situation at astana thread,.. not an excuse to build an posh extension of the lance hating thread
secondly.. there are some people that think lances current level of fitness is someway definate evidence in a court of law that he must have been doping his entire career cos how on earth can someone who is 3 minutes down on the GC in the giro, possibly be the same man who won seven tours.. ok.. so avoiding doping lets consider:
the tour is nearly three months later in the season, lance was a ful time pro at the time, whos season revolved around the tour de france, who hand picked races (wether you agree with that or not), you cannot compare that with someone who has been out for four years, has raced two competative races all season and then broken his collarbone..
whatever you think of JB there is currently no evidence that astana are doping.. im not saying they are or they arnt, but there is no evidence to support that, and there is as much likelehood as saxo bank, or lpr etc are doping.
thirdly.. i know its not helped by the italian producers showing lance every two minutes, commentators talking about him every two minutes, as someonone who likes lance riding, and actually likes levi it drives me nuts too, and i love the fact that eurosport are actually siding with the fans on this one, but do we have to talk about him constantly.. its a shame in the middle of what could be one of the most interesting giros in years we are not talking about (previously suspended) bassos form, or (previously suspended) scarponis win yesterday, or if (previously suspended) dave millars garmin can do something today, the amazing performances by brad wiggins, the strong first giro performance from who i think will be a massive star Boasen hagen.. but everything is about lance, lance, bloody lance..
Mellow Velo said:
that line can be read one of two ways....
a) we just have to hope the sponsors come up with the money at the end of the giro..
b) i was gonna do something, but the UCI extending the dealdline means now we are going to have to wait..
Post of the week! "Hogstrong".
Sadly, I am almost certain it will be so. They'll find some money, Lance may put up some, JB will make some phone calls to Hein and Pat, and they'll get the license. Keeping the invite by ASO might be a sticking point, as they aren't as corruptible as the UCI.
As to Lance. Who knows? Only that right now he looks like he still has a long way to go, and a lot of upper body bulk to lose if he's going to seriously contend for the Tour. And muscle is harder to lose than fat.
Condorman said:
i disagree, with lance obviously not going to win the giro, and unlikely to win the tour, if he can win one race in his comeback year, i think it would be dauphine.. and i would hope that levi and contador would support him in return for his support in the giro (which will come) and the tour
I can see Contador do that, if it's in the plan to have AC win the Tour, with support from Lance.dimspace said:
Levi I think will be resting after the Giro in order to support AC (Lance? Hd did say Lance back in Feb) in the Tour.
dimspace said:
I think you're right that it would be a good idea for LA to target the Dauphine. However, I'm not sure he can count on much support from Levi and Contador as history has shown that those who go all-out in the Dauphine struggle in the second half of the Tour. Mayo, LA himself in 2003, Hamilton, I think Zubeldia as well, a lot of guys who've kicked *** in the Dauphine leave too much on the road there and then have trouble in the tough stages of the Tour. Levi for certain will need recovery from the Giro for the Tour and Contador will not want to risk the Tour at all.
And all of that is why it would be a good idea for Pharmstrong to go all-out there and if he can get some form after recovering from the Giro he might have a shot at it, especially if his competitors hold anything back for Le Tour. As much as I hate the old ******* I still wouldn't mind seeing him win a race. It's fun watching him get dropped but I don't want this comeback to get pathetic - I'd be happy to see the old dog run wild again once or twice and show some flashes of the old glory.
I disagree... with the disagreement. Winning a race in his comeback year would be important, but how he fares in the Tour is orders of magnitude more important, even if in a helper role only.dimspace said:
Kazakh Government are committed to funding Astana as a team to develop cycling in Eastern Europe - read hello Vino, bye bye Bruyneel.
Wonder if the sponsors Hogstrong have lined up will be as happy to fund a Conti team without wild card status?
As for Armstrong giving actual physical support to Contador - you are joking, right? If Armstrong can't win the Tour himself he will ride all out for Leipheimer and order the rest of the team to do the same. The best thing Contador can do is get out and ride for a team that will support him - he was duped into staying by Bruyneel and that should have told him all he needed to know.
Besides, how many more seasons have the rapidly aging dream team got in them? One? Their problem is, if they keep improving at the age of 37, tongues will most definitely wag...
Wonder if the sponsors Hogstrong have lined up will be as happy to fund a Conti team without wild card status?
As for Armstrong giving actual physical support to Contador - you are joking, right? If Armstrong can't win the Tour himself he will ride all out for Leipheimer and order the rest of the team to do the same. The best thing Contador can do is get out and ride for a team that will support him - he was duped into staying by Bruyneel and that should have told him all he needed to know.
Besides, how many more seasons have the rapidly aging dream team got in them? One? Their problem is, if they keep improving at the age of 37, tongues will most definitely wag...
Not much news on this topic, since yesterday, other than some UCI "double talk".
From this site:-
The Astana team showed up at the start of stage 7 in Innsbrück, Austria, with a new version of their jerseys. The sponsors names and logos were almost invisible with the exception of KazMunaiGas, Trek and Nike. The logo of the UCI ProTour was still there. The UCI had given the team the green light for the changes since the colours of the jerseys remained the same and no new sponsors were added.
The matter was followed closely at the UCI headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland. ProTour manager Alain Rumpf told Cyclingnews about Astana's wages, which have been unpaid since February. "We are monitoring the situation carefully. We're looking into the regulations to see what we can do about it, but we won't let it (go on) this way. We hope the financial problems of Team Astana will be resolved as soon as possible, but if not, it could lead to a suspension of the team. The UCI could also ask the license commission to take away the team's ProTour license."
A possible suspension is the biggest concern for the team considering the upcoming races. Astana will be able to complete the Giro d'Italia with no issues, but its future beyond the May 31st deadline for resolution of the financial issues is uncertain.
"The UCI will not make any exceptions for Lance Armstrong or anybody else," said Rumpf. UCI president Pat McQuaid is expected to have a meeting in Kazakhstan on Monday with the Kazakh national cycling federation which holds Astana's ProTour license. If no solution is found before the end of this month, the team's participation in the Tour de France could be in jeopardy.
Pick the bones out of that, if you can.
If KazMunaiGas pick up the bill, problem solved for Astana, headache for the axis of evil.
If not, no UCI favours, but they'll try and wrestle that PT license away and no prizes for guess who'll be first up for the spare.
All quiet on the sponsor front, though....
From this site:-
The Astana team showed up at the start of stage 7 in Innsbrück, Austria, with a new version of their jerseys. The sponsors names and logos were almost invisible with the exception of KazMunaiGas, Trek and Nike. The logo of the UCI ProTour was still there. The UCI had given the team the green light for the changes since the colours of the jerseys remained the same and no new sponsors were added.
The matter was followed closely at the UCI headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland. ProTour manager Alain Rumpf told Cyclingnews about Astana's wages, which have been unpaid since February. "We are monitoring the situation carefully. We're looking into the regulations to see what we can do about it, but we won't let it (go on) this way. We hope the financial problems of Team Astana will be resolved as soon as possible, but if not, it could lead to a suspension of the team. The UCI could also ask the license commission to take away the team's ProTour license."
A possible suspension is the biggest concern for the team considering the upcoming races. Astana will be able to complete the Giro d'Italia with no issues, but its future beyond the May 31st deadline for resolution of the financial issues is uncertain.
"The UCI will not make any exceptions for Lance Armstrong or anybody else," said Rumpf. UCI president Pat McQuaid is expected to have a meeting in Kazakhstan on Monday with the Kazakh national cycling federation which holds Astana's ProTour license. If no solution is found before the end of this month, the team's participation in the Tour de France could be in jeopardy.
Pick the bones out of that, if you can.
If KazMunaiGas pick up the bill, problem solved for Astana, headache for the axis of evil.
If not, no UCI favours, but they'll try and wrestle that PT license away and no prizes for guess who'll be first up for the spare.
All quiet on the sponsor front, though....
Alain Rumpf was the man who received the under the table payment form Armstrong to buy that mysterious blood machine back in 2002. Perhaps they could use that payment to pay the wages ? and by the way you know the UCI will do anything for the Hog. So its a forgone conclusion they will get the license.
Astana are still in disarray.
Astana are still in disarray.
Mellow Velo said:
Meanwhile, Nike announced the layoff of 1,750 workers, or 5% of their workforce today. So as I said before, I'd be stunned if this new team is Nike Hogstrong.
Alpe d'Huez said:
True, but AIG still sponsor Manchester United and how many bailouts have they had? I think of at least one other sporting tournament that is sponsored by the Royal Bank of Scotland and they have had the same thing as AIG.
I would say it is unlikely, but I would be surprised if Nike do end up as a sponsor.
craig1985 said:Sorry but where you drunk?
You make some decent points though.
me drunk.. nah dont drink much... my medication sometimes affects my thinking though..
Lance will make the money appear so that he can race the TdF again. Then Astana will cover the podium whilst everyone tries to work out exactly what they're taking that no one else seems to know about.
Bicycling.com reported that it seems the $2 mil UCI Guarantee has not yet been used up. So, come May 31, they may force the release of the funds to Astana employees and riders and rescind their ProTour contract. We all kind of suspected this might happen. But while listening to Universal yesterday, they almost casually noted in the middle of the stage that if that happens, all current contracts at Astana would thus be void. I see two possible things happening out of this.
First is that Lance and JB quickly muster the money, and they get the PT license, and seamlessly pick-up the old contracts where they left off, and all is fine.
Second, Lance and JB can't get enough money, and Lance dips some into his own pocket and the team becomes MJ/Trek/Sram/Nike/Livestrong. And the contracts are in the wind. During this time Contador, or other riders, could jump to other teams - such as a certain Spanish based team that just lost it's leader to a 2-year suspension. The Universal guys seemed pretty sure Contador already had a few offers to choose from.
If this happens, Lance would have the ability to control his spending (as in saving a lot of money by not having to employ Contador and a few Kazaks), and build a team around his Tour chances. In this scenario I do see the PT license still passing to JB, as he and Lance are so connected to the UCI. And let's not forget Lance's past donation to them for the Mysterious Blood Machine.
In 2010 Astana rises from the ashes to form a UCI Continental Asia team with a much smaller budget, employing Vino, Kashi and more Kazaks.
First is that Lance and JB quickly muster the money, and they get the PT license, and seamlessly pick-up the old contracts where they left off, and all is fine.
Second, Lance and JB can't get enough money, and Lance dips some into his own pocket and the team becomes MJ/Trek/Sram/Nike/Livestrong. And the contracts are in the wind. During this time Contador, or other riders, could jump to other teams - such as a certain Spanish based team that just lost it's leader to a 2-year suspension. The Universal guys seemed pretty sure Contador already had a few offers to choose from.
If this happens, Lance would have the ability to control his spending (as in saving a lot of money by not having to employ Contador and a few Kazaks), and build a team around his Tour chances. In this scenario I do see the PT license still passing to JB, as he and Lance are so connected to the UCI. And let's not forget Lance's past donation to them for the Mysterious Blood Machine.
In 2010 Astana rises from the ashes to form a UCI Continental Asia team with a much smaller budget, employing Vino, Kashi and more Kazaks.
Is this the same Universal commentator who only appears to be able to identify LA in the peloton? And you're prepared to listen? Shame on you, Alpe!!!!
Seriously, it does seem to be plausible though....
Seriously, it does seem to be plausible though....
However, the KF will pay up by Monday according to Vino - who recently was OOC tested by the UCI meaning he's back in the testing pool meaning he's back.
More plausible scenario - Astana pay up, Vino retuns, Bruyneel & Armstrong are 'persuaded' to leave and form their own team (question being, with how much haste can McQuaid comjure up a PT license, especially with the UCI elections coming up?). Contador still jumps ship to a Spanish team etc etc etc...
More plausible scenario - Astana pay up, Vino retuns, Bruyneel & Armstrong are 'persuaded' to leave and form their own team (question being, with how much haste can McQuaid comjure up a PT license, especially with the UCI elections coming up?). Contador still jumps ship to a Spanish team etc etc etc...
LugHugger said:Is this the same Universal commentator who only appears to be able to identify LA in the peloton? And you're prepared to listen? Shame on you, Alpe!!!!
Actually, it was on the US replay with Todd Gugolski and the other guy. But still, they talk too much Lance as well.
bianchigirl said:
Ug. But I see this as possible as well, with one problem: The UCI says they plan on both saying that Vino can't race for a ProTour team for another two years (very few riders have this book thrown at them though it is the rule. Landis, Hamilton, and for some reason Heras who remains entirely blacklisted), and that they plan on finally using the Anti-Doping charter he signed to charge him a full year's salary. I say hooray. It's about time they did that. And let's start with the guy who may be the most egregious doper. But Vino says he's not paying, as no one else has had to pay. Either way, I it's going to be hard for Astana to sign him as is, or holding onto the PT license if they do.
However, I'm sorry to say I don't trust the UCI though. Not there, and certainly not in the elections. They're about as democratic and transparent as the Soviet Politburo. I think if somehow Vino and the Kazaks can pour enough money into the UCI, to grease the right wheels, he may indeed be back. And what a sad day that would be for cycling if you ask me.
I think you bring up a really good point though in that JB may be left in the cold if Astana and Vino stall things, and the UCI may need to find a way to get Hogstrong a new license. Perhaps Lance can make another donation? Either way, the more time passes, the more probably Contador jumps, and I really do see Caisse as being a puzzle where his piece fits right now.
Alpe d'Huez said:
I question the legality of the contract to pay one year's salary. Aside from its arbitrary enforcement, I would not be surprised if it violates labor laws. By the time a riders pays his taxes, he would have to come up with at least two years worth of post-tax money, a nearly impossible situation for most people.
Yes, this was always seen as the problem. Basically, it is not enforceable. Makes it a pretty stupid provision to start with, although it reads well on paper as it follows populist sentiments.
A source from KZ's cycling federation told me that all the debts are to be paid by Tuesday- i.e. tomorrow.
Still in disarray:
Lance Armstrong is blaming the constant tick, tick, ticking of Sheryl Crow's biological clock as the key factor in their break-up three years ago.
In "Lance," out in July from Da Capo, the Tour de France legend tells author John Wilcockson that after he and the sexy rocker were engaged in 2005, two weeks before her 44th birthday, their relationship became "kind of a struggle."
"She wanted marriage, she wanted children; and not that I didn't want that, but I didn't want that at that time because I had just gotten out of a marriage, I'd just had kids [Luke, Grace and Bella]," Armstrong, 37, reveals. "Yet we're up against her biological clock — that pressure is what cracked it."
"Because if somebody wants a child — man, that's the greatest gift you can give to a woman — so who are you to stand there and say I don't want one. So we were at different points in our lives. We were not compatible on that issue."
Meanwhile, Armstrong — who then dated Tory Burch, Ashley Olsen, Lisa Shields and Kate Hudson — is ready to be a father again. Last December, he announced that his girlfriend, Anna Hansen, is pregnant. Their baby was conceived naturally, defying doctors' concerns that Armstrong's bout with testicular cancer had rendered him sterile. The baby is due next month
Lance Armstrong is blaming the constant tick, tick, ticking of Sheryl Crow's biological clock as the key factor in their break-up three years ago.
In "Lance," out in July from Da Capo, the Tour de France legend tells author John Wilcockson that after he and the sexy rocker were engaged in 2005, two weeks before her 44th birthday, their relationship became "kind of a struggle."
"She wanted marriage, she wanted children; and not that I didn't want that, but I didn't want that at that time because I had just gotten out of a marriage, I'd just had kids [Luke, Grace and Bella]," Armstrong, 37, reveals. "Yet we're up against her biological clock — that pressure is what cracked it."
"Because if somebody wants a child — man, that's the greatest gift you can give to a woman — so who are you to stand there and say I don't want one. So we were at different points in our lives. We were not compatible on that issue."
Meanwhile, Armstrong — who then dated Tory Burch, Ashley Olsen, Lisa Shields and Kate Hudson — is ready to be a father again. Last December, he announced that his girlfriend, Anna Hansen, is pregnant. Their baby was conceived naturally, defying doctors' concerns that Armstrong's bout with testicular cancer had rendered him sterile. The baby is due next month
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