- Feb 16, 2010
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Yes, they were thrown out...but that is irrelevant to this discussion. They still tried to be in it which is an implicit claim of being clean.
Sky didn't join...which is relevant as evidence of a team not joining an organisation aiming to promote clean sport.
Of course, I'm not saying that Sky don't pretend to be clean, because clearly they have put a lot of energy into promoting themselves as clean. The point of this is that other teams also make these claims when asked.
Sky didn't join...which is relevant as evidence of a team not joining an organisation aiming to promote clean sport.
Of course, I'm not saying that Sky don't pretend to be clean, because clearly they have put a lot of energy into promoting themselves as clean. The point of this is that other teams also make these claims when asked.
Re:
Well, one thing is capabilities, but another league is execution, especially at the end of brutal race.
You need to be damn precise, have your reflexes and judgement unimpaired... try this being exhausted, and next day fresh..
Or in any other sport that combines precision and physical effort, like tennis, baseball. Tons of clinical aspect and proven cases there.
JimmyFingers said:He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
Well, one thing is capabilities, but another league is execution, especially at the end of brutal race.
You need to be damn precise, have your reflexes and judgement unimpaired... try this being exhausted, and next day fresh..
Or in any other sport that combines precision and physical effort, like tennis, baseball. Tons of clinical aspect and proven cases there.
Re: Re:
I take your point, it's a good one, that execution of technique requires physical durability, but I thought Nibali rode a very clever race, using his team to do the hard graft then putting everything into one big attack and then using his descending technique to compound and maintain that gap. It was a powerful display and yes it was a brutal race but he's a proven GT rider, this was a one day race. He should have plenty in the tank for a one day effort, plus he had a nice rest during the Vuelta. I thought he rode excellently, was it fueled by dope? I have no idea, probably, maybe, but I wasn't surprised in the slightest by his performance in it.
doperhopper said:JimmyFingers said:He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
Well, one thing is capabilities, but another league is execution, especially at the end of brutal race.
You need to be damn precise, have your reflexes and judgement unimpaired... try this being exhausted, and next day fresh..
Or in any other sport that combines precision and physical effort, like tennis, baseball. Tons of clinical aspect and proven cases there.
I take your point, it's a good one, that execution of technique requires physical durability, but I thought Nibali rode a very clever race, using his team to do the hard graft then putting everything into one big attack and then using his descending technique to compound and maintain that gap. It was a powerful display and yes it was a brutal race but he's a proven GT rider, this was a one day race. He should have plenty in the tank for a one day effort, plus he had a nice rest during the Vuelta. I thought he rode excellently, was it fueled by dope? I have no idea, probably, maybe, but I wasn't surprised in the slightest by his performance in it.
Re: Re:
My answer was rather general, to attack your rhetorically looking question, not directly Nibs himself.
Here the decisive factor was not the only descending itself, but rather the timing, the simple fact that valverdes of this world did not bother to raise their ass when he went, thinking... yeah, yet another of Nibali's pointless attacks, there's plenty of flat road where we can ride back the 20 seconds max he'll gain. Though Piti himself had probably his tank really empty after his usual all-season peaking.
JimmyFingers said:doperhopper said:JimmyFingers said:He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
Well, one thing is capabilities, but another league is execution, especially at the end of brutal race.
You need to be damn precise, have your reflexes and judgement unimpaired... try this being exhausted, and next day fresh..
Or in any other sport that combines precision and physical effort, like tennis, baseball. Tons of clinical aspect and proven cases there.
I take your point, it's a good one, that execution of technique requires physical durability, but I thought Nibali rode a very clever race, using his team to do the hard graft then putting everything into one big attack and then using his descending technique to compound and maintain that gap. It was a powerful display and yes it was a brutal race but he's a proven GT rider, this was a one day race. He should have plenty in the tank for a one day effort, plus he had a nice rest during the Vuelta. I thought he rode excellently, was it fueled by dope? I have no idea, probably, maybe, but I wasn't surprised in the slightest by his performance in it.
My answer was rather general, to attack your rhetorically looking question, not directly Nibs himself.
Here the decisive factor was not the only descending itself, but rather the timing, the simple fact that valverdes of this world did not bother to raise their ass when he went, thinking... yeah, yet another of Nibali's pointless attacks, there's plenty of flat road where we can ride back the 20 seconds max he'll gain. Though Piti himself had probably his tank really empty after his usual all-season peaking.
Re: Re:
A worthy point well made. Expect it to be either attacked or ignored as an uncomfortable truth.
Huge double standards applied regularly in the clinic to certain teams/riders/countries, and yet constant claims of being neutral and 'post-national' thrown around, and instead the 'bots' are blamed for the disproportionate attention some teams attract in the forum. Go figure.
wendybnt said:
A worthy point well made. Expect it to be either attacked or ignored as an uncomfortable truth.
Huge double standards applied regularly in the clinic to certain teams/riders/countries, and yet constant claims of being neutral and 'post-national' thrown around, and instead the 'bots' are blamed for the disproportionate attention some teams attract in the forum. Go figure.
Re: Re:
So he applied good racecraft and tactics to win the day, as most monuments are won. There were a flurry of attacks from mostly Nieve and Pinot which Nibs studiously ignored, using Rosa to chase, putting them into the red and then bam, one big decisive attack on the climb and a masterclass in descending to secure the win. I think its shame people look at that and just default to 'doper' but that the is the situation we are left with. I just choose to keep an open mind and pay credit where its due.
doperhopper said:JimmyFingers said:doperhopper said:JimmyFingers said:He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
Well, one thing is capabilities, but another league is execution, especially at the end of brutal race.
You need to be damn precise, have your reflexes and judgement unimpaired... try this being exhausted, and next day fresh..
Or in any other sport that combines precision and physical effort, like tennis, baseball. Tons of clinical aspect and proven cases there.
I take your point, it's a good one, that execution of technique requires physical durability, but I thought Nibali rode a very clever race, using his team to do the hard graft then putting everything into one big attack and then using his descending technique to compound and maintain that gap. It was a powerful display and yes it was a brutal race but he's a proven GT rider, this was a one day race. He should have plenty in the tank for a one day effort, plus he had a nice rest during the Vuelta. I thought he rode excellently, was it fueled by dope? I have no idea, probably, maybe, but I wasn't surprised in the slightest by his performance in it.
My answer was rather general, to attack your rhetorically looking question, not directly Nibs himself.
Here the decisive factor was not the only descending itself, but rather the timing, the simple fact that valverdes of this world did not bother to raise their ass when he went, thinking... yeah, yet another of Nibali's pointless attacks, there's plenty of flat road where we can ride back the 20 seconds max he'll gain. Though Piti himself had probably his tank really empty after his usual all-season peaking.
So he applied good racecraft and tactics to win the day, as most monuments are won. There were a flurry of attacks from mostly Nieve and Pinot which Nibs studiously ignored, using Rosa to chase, putting them into the red and then bam, one big decisive attack on the climb and a masterclass in descending to secure the win. I think its shame people look at that and just default to 'doper' but that the is the situation we are left with. I just choose to keep an open mind and pay credit where its due.
- Jun 14, 2010
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Re: Re:
There are no double standards with me. I account for a plurality of the accusations, speculation and threads against Movistar, Astana and Katusha on this forum.
Not that you would know who posts in those threads since all you do is troll the Sky ones. But you can have a look or just ask anyone who does post in them.
Just needed to clear that up.
JimmyFingers said:
There are no double standards with me. I account for a plurality of the accusations, speculation and threads against Movistar, Astana and Katusha on this forum.
Not that you would know who posts in those threads since all you do is troll the Sky ones. But you can have a look or just ask anyone who does post in them.
Just needed to clear that up.
Ah yes, the default 'troll' accusation from Hitch thrown at anyone who simply disagrees with him, and apparently all I do is post on the Sky threads, said to me in the Astana thread. Brilliant.
I don't troll mate, and I consider your frequent misuse of the term in debate an example of trolling in itself, as it is an offensive term designed to devalue other people's opinions who you consider to be less worthy than your own.
I don't troll mate, and I consider your frequent misuse of the term in debate an example of trolling in itself, as it is an offensive term designed to devalue other people's opinions who you consider to be less worthy than your own.
- Jul 17, 2015
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Here's another example from the team that don't pretend to be clean, with manager and ex-rider (who retired on a massive clean win) not fighting accusations made against them, and implicitly admitting it with a cheeky knowing wink:
http://archyworld.com/2015/09/cycling-international-bribery-vinokourov-threatens-lawsuit-in-belgium/
http://archyworld.com/2015/09/cycling-international-bribery-vinokourov-threatens-lawsuit-in-belgium/
- Jul 15, 2013
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Re:
EDIT: Just read your post in the sky thread. Vino does not sue anyone here. There's a lawsuit against him in Belgium but I dont think he has responded to it yet. A ridiculous lawsuit anyways.
And what does this mediocre piece of google translate tell us about doping?wendybnt said:
EDIT: Just read your post in the sky thread. Vino does not sue anyone here. There's a lawsuit against him in Belgium but I dont think he has responded to it yet. A ridiculous lawsuit anyways.
- Jun 14, 2010
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Re:
Errr...
viewtopic.php?p=1821934&sid=883a469b2918e61be774d6a95a204241#p1821934
JimmyFingers said:
Errr...
viewtopic.php?p=1821934&sid=883a469b2918e61be774d6a95a204241#p1821934
Re: Re:
I disagree with that, and I have repeated asked for clarification why and it has been ignored.
The Hitch said:
I disagree with that, and I have repeated asked for clarification why and it has been ignored.
Please save us, Papa Francesco! Our team is run by Satan and beset by demons from the UCI. You are our only hope!
*Crickets chirp*
*Flies buzz*
*Tumbleweed blows across the Astana thread*
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/licence-commission-proceedings-against-astana-closed/
Hey guys! Here's a doping story. UCI? Astana? Anybody?
Hey Batman, someone's posted a photo of Chris Froome looking a bit fat.
Holy Doping smokes Robin, to the Sky thread we go!
*Flies buzz*
*Tumbleweed blows across the Astana thread*
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/licence-commission-proceedings-against-astana-closed/
Hey guys! Here's a doping story. UCI? Astana? Anybody?
Hey Batman, someone's posted a photo of Chris Froome looking a bit fat.
Holy Doping smokes Robin, to the Sky thread we go!
- Jul 11, 2013
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Savant12 said:
Perhaps you could offer your own perspective to this doping story rather than making snide and unsubstantiated claims of other posters priorities to which you are not to decide upon anyway.
If you did offer some "real" contribution as to this story, perhaps some would engage in "real" discussion on it.
- Jul 21, 2012
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Maybe just maybe it's because this decision from the licensing committee was so expected that nobody can be bothered with it, was Astana ever going to have that licence revoked?Savant12 said:
Nope
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