- Jun 10, 2013
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Yes to both.
I have no problem with Nibali winning, mind. I just don't like it when part of his success is due to a ridiculously strong Astana team.
zapata said:BigMac said:zapata said:
I'm afraid I don't understand those questions.
Are there anyone you would rather see win than nibali? And if so, do you believe that person to be clean?
Yes to both.
I have no problem with Nibali winning, mind. I just don't like it when part of his success is due to a ridiculously strong Astana team.
- Aug 3, 2015
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I dont think Rosa was out of the ordinary. He was doing some impressive work in both GT's and has shown to be a super rider, very versatile and a strong climber. And especially after his Turin-win, I didnt expect less from Rosa today. And Nibali's win was just superb, it wasnt a showcase of being stronger than the others today, rather just playing to his strengths on the downhill. As for the whole team, Landa's effort was to be expected as well.
I dont really know how could wouldnt have expected what happened today. Astana clearly had the strongest team on paper today and showed that.
I dont really know how could wouldnt have expected what happened today. Astana clearly had the strongest team on paper today and showed that.
- Jul 17, 2015
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I think Zapata has a point regarding hypocrisy. I've seen several people here, rightly vociferous on the subject of Sky's probable doping, say things like "I'd rather Nibali won because at least they don't pretend to be clean".
Err.....yes they do pretend to be clean. They squeal every bit as loud as Sky when poked. They aren't looking at you and giving you a knowing wink as if to say, yeah, we dope....but at least we admit it.
They are all part of the same problem. The only difference is that Astana have been busted for doping.....quite a lot.
Nibali's win should be met with exactly the same excoriation as Froome's Tour wins, or Horner's Vuelta win.
Anything else is hypocritical.
Err.....yes they do pretend to be clean. They squeal every bit as loud as Sky when poked. They aren't looking at you and giving you a knowing wink as if to say, yeah, we dope....but at least we admit it.
They are all part of the same problem. The only difference is that Astana have been busted for doping.....quite a lot.
Nibali's win should be met with exactly the same excoriation as Froome's Tour wins, or Horner's Vuelta win.
Anything else is hypocritical.
- Jun 10, 2013
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Re:
I made a comment about Astana's collective display of strenght, you're asking me questions about who I'd rather see winning instead of Nibali, painting me as a hypocrite. But yes, I'm totally wasting your time and this discussion is fundamentally not dumb.
zapata said:
I made a comment about Astana's collective display of strenght, you're asking me questions about who I'd rather see winning instead of Nibali, painting me as a hypocrite. But yes, I'm totally wasting your time and this discussion is fundamentally not dumb.
- Mar 15, 2011
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_____________________________________
I agree with you, but I think you're misrepresenting a lot of "The Clinics" judgement. Most of the posts that make up the sky threads in every manifestation is the posters who make a stand on behalf of sky. What's left, the reactions to stuff actually originating from Sky is pretty proportional. I might be wrong, but it seems that there was as much vitriol to Nibali's sticky bottle as Porte's wheel change. Aru's dysentery is as much of a trope as nutella bans. Image of Clean Cycling is used as a moniker as often as calling Froome Extra Terrestrial. If I'm wrong on that, then I haven't everything you have. Landa's out of nowhere performance was didn't get as much attention as Gerient Thomas's tour because he was not out of nowhere, he came from somewhere wholly opposite from GT riding. Aru may have gotten off easier during the Vuelta than the Giro, but Domoulin was the story as far as the clinic was concerned, and no one harped on Froome's withdrawl any longer than Nibali's. And that's just this year. We're you reading the forum during Niabli's Tour? Or his Giro?
zapata said:
zapata said:
BigMac said:
_____________________________________
wendybnt said:
I agree with you, but I think you're misrepresenting a lot of "The Clinics" judgement. Most of the posts that make up the sky threads in every manifestation is the posters who make a stand on behalf of sky. What's left, the reactions to stuff actually originating from Sky is pretty proportional. I might be wrong, but it seems that there was as much vitriol to Nibali's sticky bottle as Porte's wheel change. Aru's dysentery is as much of a trope as nutella bans. Image of Clean Cycling is used as a moniker as often as calling Froome Extra Terrestrial. If I'm wrong on that, then I haven't everything you have. Landa's out of nowhere performance was didn't get as much attention as Gerient Thomas's tour because he was not out of nowhere, he came from somewhere wholly opposite from GT riding. Aru may have gotten off easier during the Vuelta than the Giro, but Domoulin was the story as far as the clinic was concerned, and no one harped on Froome's withdrawl any longer than Nibali's. And that's just this year. We're you reading the forum during Niabli's Tour? Or his Giro?
He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
- Jun 14, 2010
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Winning while on Astana, is an indicator of doping. Whether or not you enjoyed his descent is immaterial to the discussion.
JimmyFingers said:He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.
Winning while on Astana, is an indicator of doping. Whether or not you enjoyed his descent is immaterial to the discussion.
- Jun 14, 2010
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Err... No they don't.
They don't have ZTP for example. Or claim to have marginal gains, or pay journos to write books about how using pillows gives a greater advantage than doping.
Walsh accused Landa and Aru of doping. Did Astana shoot back? Because I know that when Rasmussen only claimed Thomas was a track rider he got a warning from a Sky rider. And when Vayer wondered where Froome got his strengh from, he got personally attacked as a former doper by Froome (even though he never tested positive just like Froome).
And who calls Vayer and Tucker "psudoscientists". Vino doesn't. Brailsford does.
Just because Nibali once said that he is clean doesn't mean Astana are in the same league as Sky when it comes to selling BS.
Lombardia is not and never will be anything like the TDF.
wendybnt said:
Err... No they don't.
They don't have ZTP for example. Or claim to have marginal gains, or pay journos to write books about how using pillows gives a greater advantage than doping.
Walsh accused Landa and Aru of doping. Did Astana shoot back? Because I know that when Rasmussen only claimed Thomas was a track rider he got a warning from a Sky rider. And when Vayer wondered where Froome got his strengh from, he got personally attacked as a former doper by Froome (even though he never tested positive just like Froome).
And who calls Vayer and Tucker "psudoscientists". Vino doesn't. Brailsford does.
Just because Nibali once said that he is clean doesn't mean Astana are in the same league as Sky when it comes to selling BS.
No.
Lombardia is not and never will be anything like the TDF.
It is all very simple - there is a northern and a southern way of doing things. The southern one is the old fashioned 'we all know what is going on, so just keep quiet and do your thing.' The northern one is a more modern 'we all know what is going on, so let's use big words and pretend there is nothing going on, which there is, but we say it isn't, even though there is, which everyone knows.' Catholic versus Protestant. Old versus new. And nobody likes the new kid on the block.
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