Astana Licence to be withdrawn?

[zapata]

Re: Re:

Bump.

Sorry, I'm way too butthurt, I had to.

Who were you rooting for? Do you believe he is clean?

Would you mind very much answering these questions?

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Bump.

Sorry, I'm way too butthurt, I had to.

Who were you rooting for? Do you believe he is clean?

Would you mind very much answering these questions?

I'm afraid I don't understand those questions.

 

[wendybnt]

Fantastic win from the Symbol of Clean Cycling

 

[zapata]

Re: Re:

Bump.

Sorry, I'm way too butthurt, I had to.

Who were you rooting for? Do you believe he is clean?

Would you mind very much answering these questions?

I'm afraid I don't understand those questions.

Are there anyone you would rather see win than nibali? And if so, do you believe that person to be clean?

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Bump.

Sorry, I'm way too butthurt, I had to.

Who were you rooting for? Do you believe he is clean?

Would you mind very much answering these questions?

I'm afraid I don't understand those questions.

Are there anyone you would rather see win than nibali? And if so, do you believe that person to be clean?

Yes to both.

I have no problem with Nibali winning, mind. I just don't like it when part of his success is due to a ridiculously strong Astana team.

 

[zapata]

Super non-answer.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Super non-answer.

How so? This is the Astana thread, I came to whine about Astana's ridiculous performance. If I wanted to talk riders I'd be on the Nibali thread.

 

[zapata]

So, if I ask the questions in another thread, would you be prepared to answer, or would you just continue to waste my time?

 

[Valv.Piti]

I dont think Rosa was out of the ordinary. He was doing some impressive work in both GT's and has shown to be a super rider, very versatile and a strong climber. And especially after his Turin-win, I didnt expect less from Rosa today. And Nibali's win was just superb, it wasnt a showcase of being stronger than the others today, rather just playing to his strengths on the downhill. As for the whole team, Landa's effort was to be expected as well.

I dont really know how could wouldnt have expected what happened today. Astana clearly had the strongest team on paper today and showed that.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

So, if I ask the questions in another thread, would you be prepared to answer, or would you just continue to waste my time?

I won't elaborate on my former answer because it's completely irrelevant. Those questions have nothing to do with my original post. Yes to both.

 

[zapata]

That's great. Everywhere in this forum, People are casting aspersions on riders they don't like, while simultaneously supporting riders that are equally dirty. I would just like to know who this clean champion of yours is.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

That's cool. Still has nothing to do with my original post. So if we could just stop clogging the thread with this pointless discussion...

 

[zapata]

It's not pointless. It adressess the general hypocrisy and douchebaggery of certain cyclingfans, but I see I'll never get a straight answer out of you. Good night.

 

[wendybnt]

I think Zapata has a point regarding hypocrisy. I've seen several people here, rightly vociferous on the subject of Sky's probable doping, say things like "I'd rather Nibali won because at least they don't pretend to be clean".

Err.....yes they do pretend to be clean. They squeal every bit as loud as Sky when poked. They aren't looking at you and giving you a knowing wink as if to say, yeah, we dope....but at least we admit it.

They are all part of the same problem. The only difference is that Astana have been busted for doping.....quite a lot.

Nibali's win should be met with exactly the same excoriation as Froome's Tour wins, or Horner's Vuelta win.

Anything else is hypocritical.

 

["Jeff"]

Landa all by himself narrowed the gap with those who were up front Kwiatkowski and Wellens. Thats against all cycling rules.

 

[wendybnt]

Not a marginal gain then

 

[BigMac]

Re:

It's not pointless. It adressess the general hypocrisy and douchebaggery of certain cyclingfans, but I see I'll never get a straight answer out of you. Good night.

I made a comment about Astana's collective display of strenght, you're asking me questions about who I'd rather see winning instead of Nibali, painting me as a hypocrite. But yes, I'm totally wasting your time and this discussion is fundamentally not dumb.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

It's not pointless. It adressess the general hypocrisy and douchebaggery of certain cyclingfans, but I see I'll never get a straight answer out of you. Good night.

Are there anyone you would rather see win than nibali? And if so, do you believe that person to be clean?

Yes to both.

_____________________________________

I think Zapata has a point regarding hypocrisy. I've seen several people here, rightly vociferous on the subject of Sky's probable doping, say things like "I'd rather Nibali won because at least they don't pretend to be clean".

Err.....yes they do pretend to be clean. They squeal every bit as loud as Sky when poked. They aren't looking at you and giving you a knowing wink as if to say, yeah, we dope....but at least we admit it.

They are all part of the same problem. The only difference is that Astana have been busted for doping.....quite a lot.

Nibali's win should be met with exactly the same excoriation as Froome's Tour wins, or Horner's Vuelta win.

Anything else is hypocritical.

I agree with you, but I think you're misrepresenting a lot of "The Clinics" judgement. Most of the posts that make up the sky threads in every manifestation is the posters who make a stand on behalf of sky. What's left, the reactions to stuff actually originating from Sky is pretty proportional. I might be wrong, but it seems that there was as much vitriol to Nibali's sticky bottle as Porte's wheel change. Aru's dysentery is as much of a trope as nutella bans. Image of Clean Cycling is used as a moniker as often as calling Froome Extra Terrestrial. If I'm wrong on that, then I haven't everything you have. Landa's out of nowhere performance was didn't get as much attention as Gerient Thomas's tour because he was not out of nowhere, he came from somewhere wholly opposite from GT riding. Aru may have gotten off easier during the Vuelta than the Giro, but Domoulin was the story as far as the clinic was concerned, and no one harped on Froome's withdrawl any longer than Nibali's. And that's just this year. We're you reading the forum during Niabli's Tour? Or his Giro?

 

[JimmyFingers]

He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

He attacked powerfully but used the descent more to gap his rivals, and his descending was a joy to watch. Unless good descending is yet another indicator of doping.

Winning while on Astana, is an indicator of doping. Whether or not you enjoyed his descent is immaterial to the discussion.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Err.....yes they do pretend to be clean. They squeal every bit as loud as Sky when poked. They aren't looking at you and giving you a knowing wink as if to say, yeah, we dope....but at least we admit it.

Err... No they don't.

They don't have ZTP for example. Or claim to have marginal gains, or pay journos to write books about how using pillows gives a greater advantage than doping.

Walsh accused Landa and Aru of doping. Did Astana shoot back? Because I know that when Rasmussen only claimed Thomas was a track rider he got a warning from a Sky rider. And when Vayer wondered where Froome got his strengh from, he got personally attacked as a former doper by Froome (even though he never tested positive just like Froome).

And who calls Vayer and Tucker "psudoscientists". Vino doesn't. Brailsford does.

Just because Nibali once said that he is clean doesn't mean Astana are in the same league as Sky when it comes to selling BS.

Nibali's win should be met with exactly the same excoriation as Froome's Tour wins, or Horner's Vuelta win.

No.
Lombardia is not and never will be anything like the TDF.

 

[wendybnt]

Your post is a great example of the blinkered hypocrisy I was talking about.

 

[Lyon]

It is all very simple - there is a northern and a southern way of doing things. The southern one is the old fashioned 'we all know what is going on, so just keep quiet and do your thing.' The northern one is a more modern 'we all know what is going on, so let's use big words and pretend there is nothing going on, which there is, but we say it isn't, even though there is, which everyone knows.' Catholic versus Protestant. Old versus new. And nobody likes the new kid on the block.

 

[Gaul 58]

Re:

The difference is that Astana are perceived here as 'good' dopers (along with Katusha, Movistar and Tinkoff) whereas Sky are considered to be 'nasty' dopers (along with Orica and Garmin). The doping on the ' good' teams is not encouraged but it is generally tolerated as part of the sport and it is considered fine to be a supporter of those teams or any of their riders (apart from Alex Dowsett). However, any support for anybody who rides for any of the 'nasty' teams is not tolerated and any posters who expresses any support for riders on these teams will be constantly ridiculed and bullied and requested to not post in the clinic by the self appointed clinic police who reside here.

+1

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Just because Nibali once said that he is clean doesn't mean Astana are in the same league as Sky when it comes to selling BS.

You're forgetting about Astana's MPCC membership.