Astana transfusion equipment "Criminal"

[Hugh Januss]

It doesn't matter what people say here, we all know it is a little bit surprising that only searches of Astana's medical waste produced these apparent findings. Were any other teams targeted at all? And why were they going through official medical waste bags in the first place? There are many questions raised by this.

I see no one answered my question asking what medical waste is permitted in the medical waste bags.

The first we heard of this, the article stated that the authorities were going through stuff from a "number" of teams. The fact that they are now continuing to investigate only Astana would suggest that there was nothing bad in the other team's trash. I can think of two possible explanations for this:
1) Only Astana was using illegal substances and procedures during the tour.
2) Only Astana slipped up and left the wrong bag in the wrong container.

As to your last question I would imagine that the containers are mostly for dirty bandages and that sort of thing, although it was certainly "permitted" to put anything they wanted in them, just not very smart.

 

[Polish]

Bias you betcha

Can you give an example of this Anti-Lance bias by Le Monde?

Give YOU examples of anti-Lance bias in the French media?
Impossible! Can not be done.

Like trying to give examples of bias in FoxNews to a Palin supporter.

 

[poupou]

It doesn't matter what people say here, we all know it is a little bit surprising that only searches of Astana's medical waste produced these apparent findings. Were any other teams targeted at all? And why were they going through official medical waste bags in the first place? There are many questions raised by this.

I see no one answered my question asking what medical waste is permitted in the medical waste bags.

You must be American, one of those lazy guys who don't train hard.
You have better to learn french or to read carefully the posts of whom speaks french on that subject.

Astana's medical waste were no more searched than other teams, but they have found medical equipment in Astana's rooms like transfusion needles and they have found perfusion equimpent inside the official medical waste bins.
So the raised question is : did the needles and the perfusion equipments fit together?

In Le Monde's article, it's mentionned that Gendarmes had Astana under watch so they had probably find (or be warned) earlier something fishy.

 

[Rex Hunter]

The first we heard of this, the article stated that the authorities were going through stuff from a "number" of teams.

Yes I know it was reported that other teams' waste were searched, but the fact only Astana have been named, from the beginning, raises doubts that this is true. It maybe no other teams were targerted but they knew it would look bias so they just added the other teams thing. But even if other teams were targeted and did produce findings, what does it mean that there was "not enough evidence" to continue investigating them? Who made the judgement that the evidence from other teams wasn't enough to pursue, but it was for Astana? It would be interesting to know what, if anything, was found of other teams and why this was not enough.

 

[Rex Hunter]

You must be American, one of those lazy guys who don't train hard.

You only have to read comments like this to know there is more than a grain of truth to the claim that anti Americanism CAN play a role in these matters. It's not all some cooked up excuse by LA.

 

[Polish]

I see no one answered my question asking what medical waste is permitted in the medical waste bags.

How about the syringes Lance used to draw blood so he could put
his blood values up on the InterWebs? Is that medical waste?

 

[rolfrae]

You only have to read comments like this to know there is more than a grain of truth to the claim that anti Americanism CAN play a role in these matters. It's not all some cooked up excuse by LA.

He was being sarcastic. Heard of that?

 

[BroDeal]

The first we heard of this, the article stated that the authorities were going through stuff from a "number" of teams. The fact that they are now continuing to investigate only Astana would suggest that there was nothing bad in the other team's trash. I can think of two possible explanations for this:
1) Only Astana was using illegal substances and procedures during the tour.
2) Only Astana slipped up and left the wrong bag in the wrong container.

3) The agency has limited resources, both people and money, so it uses those resources on the best case it has. Tracking down seven out of eight members of the same team who got a transfusion is an easy case with a high probability that a few of the members can be identified with a DNA match. If evidence indicated that a single rider from another team used a transfusion then that would be a more difficult case and could end up being a waste of time because a DNA match may never be made. In addition, taking down an entire team is a more worthy use of resources than taking down a single rider.

 

[Polish]

3) The agency has limited resources, both people and money, so it uses those resources on the best case it has. Tracking down seven out of eight members of the same team who got a transfusion is an easy case with a high probability that a few of the members can be identified with a DNA match. If evidence indicated that a single rider from another team used a transfusion then that would be a more difficult case and could end up being a waste of time because a DNA match may never be made. In addition, taking down an entire team is a more worthy use of resources than taking down a single rider.

But using those "limited resources" to go after Lance is so typical.
Boudry and the AFLD have been obsessed with busting Lance for many years.
Frozen PeePee, ShowerGate - and now GarbageGate.

BTW, has Alberto made any comments yet on this Scandal/WitchHunt?
If Alberto offered up some DNA, it would sure make put some pressure
on the other team members.

 

[Race Radio]

Give YOU examples of anti-Lance bias in the French media?
Impossible! Can not be done.

Like trying to give examples of bias in FoxNews to a Palin supporter.

Not the French media, Le Monde.

You claim bias but are unable to come up with any evidence so it appears you just invented this claim, much like Armstrong does whenever someone questions the myth.

 

[Race Radio]

Yes I know it was reported that other teams' waste were searched, but the fact only Astana have been named, from the beginning, raises doubts that this is true. It maybe no other teams were targerted but they knew it would look bias so they just added the other teams thing. But even if other teams were targeted and did produce findings, what does it mean that there was "not enough evidence" to continue investigating them? Who made the judgement that the evidence from other teams wasn't enough to pursue, but it was for Astana? It would be interesting to know what, if anything, was found of other teams and why this was not enough.

All the teams were searched. The only team they found anything on was Astana. Are you saying that just because Astana was doping that all teams are doping? You must have run out of troll material if that is best you can come up with Sproket1

 

[Rex Hunter]

All the teams were searched. The only team they found anything on was Astana. Are you saying that just because Astana was doping that all teams are doping? You must have run out of troll material if that is best you can come up with Sproket1

So you think Astana were the only team to dope this year?

 

[Race Radio]

So you think Astana were the only team to dope this year?

We know that pretending to be *** is part of your troll shtick but if you go too far with it then you are going get banned again.

 

[Kennf1]

How about the syringes Lance used to draw blood so he could put
his blood values up on the InterWebs? Is that medical waste?

You're saying Lance tested his own blood to post values? Using a syringe? Are you sober?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Rex - Stick to factual information or don't post at all. Your innuendo and spin are growing very thin on me.

My point is that Le Monde and the NYTimes are held to higher standards when it comes to "pulling stories" or having to print retractions.

Yes they are, but this is a false dilemma you are pointing out. The issue isn't standards, but facts presented in an objective manner . Because the NYT or Le Monde has higher standards does not mean someone else is free to publish information that is not factual or objective.

It would be like me writing for some small town paper or website and writing an article stating that this latest investigation simply piles on to the already mile high stack of evidence showing that Lance Armstrong is a bigger doper than Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens, and not only should be banned from the sport for fraud, but investigated into criminal activity.

If I wrote that, would you state that it was okay, because I wasn't held to as high of "standard" as the NYT?

 

[auscyclefan94]

So you think Astana were the only team to dope this year?

They would probably have the biggest doping scheme in the tour.

Nice thread!

 

[Rex Hunter]

RaceRadio says:

All the teams were searched. The only team they found anything on was Astana. Are you saying that just because Astana was doping that all teams are doping? You must have run out of troll material if that is best you can come up with Sproket1

I said:

So you think Astana were the only team to dope this year?

RaceRadio replies:

We know that pretending to be *** is part of your troll shtick but if you go too far with it then you are going get banned again.

Draw your own conclusions. I thought it was a fairly simple question that came from his first post. Obviously it's easier to troll than to answer it.

 

[Rex Hunter]

Rex - Stick to factual information or don't post at all. Your innuendo and spin are growing very thin on me.

Um, why have you said this? You do realise most of the posts in this thread are making speculative points, yet you haven't warned anyone else about this as far as I'm aware. In the post just above yours RaceRadio is back to trolling again - attacking me rather than talking about the subject - yet no warning has been given to him either.

The mods here really need to work on a consistent policy. If you banned all use of speculation then the clinic wouldn't exist.

 

[Escarabajo]

So you think Astana were the only team to dope this year?

No. Absolutely not. Maybe the only sloppy ones or they were set up. I don't know which one it is.

I don't think nothing will come out of this. ASO is not immune from money and I know Armstrong will help them achieve this goal. As much as I would love to see all the Astana riders get busted and penalize for this I don't think is going to happen. Especially in the conditions that are happening. It is just asking for trouble:

- Why only Astana? That would make the French look like it was a set up even if it wasn't.
- DNA identification? Depending on who's DNA is found then we can start our theories about who set them up. This is also asking for trouble and misinterpretation by the media.

Frankly I don't think anything is going to happen.

 

[Polish]

Not the French media, Le Monde.

You claim bias but are unable to come up with any evidence so it appears you just invented this claim, much like Armstrong does whenever someone questions the myth.

So at least you are admitting there IS anti-Lance bias in the French Media,
just not in Le Monde. Good...its a start....baby steps, baby steps

 

[BroDeal]

But using those "limited resources" to go after Lance is so typical.

Yeah, instead of the Feds using their limited resources to go after Bernie Madoff, they should have used them to go after people who knocked off a convenience store. The biggest crooks tend to draw the most fire from enforcement agencies.

Boudry and the AFLD have been obsessed with busting Lance for many years. Frozen PeePee, ShowerGate - and now GarbageGate.

This makes no sense. Each one of those affairs involved different organizations. They are not connected.

Chances are that Armstrong got his transfusion (as evidenced by his unexplainable blood values) from his own, private medical support. He probably skates on this, and Contador gets taken down. The riders that went to Retirement Shack could very well lead to the destruction of that team, though; maybe they just won't show up at any french races next year.

 

[Polish]

This makes no sense. Each one of those affairs involved different organizations. They are not connected.

.

Operation Frozen PeePee, ShowerGate, GarbageGate,
and Preferential Treatment are all AFLD/Boudry:


Frozen PeePee:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-proposes-more-testing-for-armstrong-samples

ShowerGate:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-could-face-afld-sanction
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-gives-armstrong-a-hair-cut

GarbageGate:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-says-incongruous-products-found-during-2009-tour

Preferential Treatment":
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-president-publicly-criticises-ucis-tour-tests

 

[BroDeal]

Operation Frozen PeePee, ShowerGate, GarbageGate,
and Preferential Treatment are all AFLD/Boudry:

I was not aware that Boudry has a second job moonlighting as a secret agent for the OCLAESP.

The AFLD merely tested the 1998 and 1999 Tour samples for EPO. They have no knowledge to this day of which sample belongs to which athlete. There goes the Boudry conspiracy.

Maybe if Armstrong stopped doping then he would stop getting involved in one doping scandals after another. You think?

 

[Ripper]

Holy crapola!!

I take a couple of days away from the computer to have some visits with family for the whole Christmas thing, and there are hundreds of posts about transfusion/infusion equipment (and of course, more trolling). I barely have the energy to keep up.

Interesting thread guys!

 

[Rex Hunter]

(and of course, more trolling

I've just been having a conversation with some of the mods, and we've all agreed that mentions of trolling will now be banned unless a specific instance of trolling can be cited.