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Astarloza suspended

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Yeah, they're the oldest (or one of the oldest) team in business, being active since 1994. It would be certainly a pity for cycling in general and in particular for cycling in the Basque country if the sponsors decide to stop or partly stop. But I doubt that. Cycling is so popular and everyone in the Basque country is on hand of Astarloza and Mayo, so I don't think there is much reason. Until organized team doping is discovered of course.

@Izoard: and that's why such things never happen. Then it will be inconclusive or something. Read also my previous posts about this stuff.

Oh by the way, Astarloza gave a press conference earlier today (with among others Zubeldia and Txurruka present) in which he stated he never did something illegal, that he isn't doped and never doped himself before and that he lost his confidence in the system anyway, despite the result for the B - sample. Sounds like all the normal stuff but the most remarkable thing is yet to come. Astarloza says that in the documents he got from the lab there is evidence to say the testing was not correct. Very curious about that.
 
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Could the UCI have mustered the skapegoat here?

"well were ignoring the big names, so to erase suspicion, lets drop this guy"????? just so people know were still trying and we still care.
 
I just saw his press conference. Rarely or ever seen someone as convincing. Makes him like snowwhite compared to Pechstein, she looked WAY guilty to me. Ricco is a very bad arrogant liar, as is Vino, Astarloza, either the greatest actor, or very sincere. Give him a role in a TV drama, see how he does.

Does seem easy to think Spain had to take out one of their own, to keep getting away with Valverde and to a lesser extent Contador.
 
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A little off topic: To me it seems like a lot of pro cyclist have "elf ears", very large ears, such as Astarloza...could of course be a coincidence, but I`m thinking - could this have something to do with abuse of HGH?

Anyone having noticed it as well? Is it a tell-tale?:eek:
 
mikkemus23 said:
A little off topic: To me it seems like a lot of pro cyclist have "elf ears", very large ears, such as Astarloza...could of course be a coincidence, but I`m thinking - could this have something to do with abuse of HGH?

Anyone having noticed it as well? Is it a tell-tale?:eek:
With women, another quite intimate bodily growth response is known as a result of doping abuse. I've heard first hand from a small time lady racer, that quite a few pro ladies seem to be "blessed" naturally with this enhancement, where pack fillers don't display such at all, ever. Quite sad, and obviously gros, to see this, and realize what you're competing against.
Another lady friend acutely quit racing when her national competition, after getting a new contract, took 20 minutes off her MTB WC times relative to her. I won't give details, just that her bike WAS One.
As tests got better, results slipped though. She retired as a mid-packer pretty much.
 
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wpsracing78 said:
Could the UCI have mustered the skapegoat here?

"well were ignoring the big names, so to erase suspicion, lets drop this guy"????? just so people know were still trying and we still care.

I keep hearing people say this, but it just doesn't match the facts. They’ve caught several big names:

Di Luca: Came in number 2 in this years Giro.

Bernhard Kohl: King of the Mountains and podium placement.

Riccardo Riccò: 2 Stage victories, lead King of the Mountains and Youth Rider classification, number 9 in the GC and IIRC riding hideously fast uphill so he could very well have advanced a lot further.

Oh and let's not forget
Floyd Landis: Tour winner 2006

And that’s not even counting Basso, Ulrich, Michael Rasmussen and other caught by means other than a positive doping test

So really, where is the notion that no big names get caught coming from? If you aren’t willing to consider the possibility that the race leaders are clean that’s one thing - I wouldn’t put any money I couldn’t afford to lose on that either - but at least consider the possibility that most of them are smart enough to not take anything that shows up in a doping test.
 
Cerberus said:
I keep hearing people say this, but it just doesn't match the facts. They’ve caught several big names:

Di Luca: Came in number 2 in this years Giro.

Bernhard Kohl: King of the Mountains and podium placement.

Riccardo Riccò: 2 Stage victories, lead King of the Mountains and Youth Rider classification, number 9 in the GC and IIRC riding hideously fast uphill so he could very well have advanced a lot further.

Oh and let's not forget
Floyd Landis: Tour winner 2006

And that’s not even counting Basso, Ulrich, Michael Rasmussen and other caught by means other than a positive doping test

So really, where is the notion that no big names get caught coming from?

Kohl and Ricco were caught by the AFLD testing the 2008 TdF. The UCI had nothing to do with it.

Basso and Ullrich were caught by a police investigation that had nothing to do with the UCI.

Rasmussen was "caught" by an Italian TV commentator mentioning that he saw Ras in Italy when he was supposedly in Mexico. One of the reasons the AFLD was given responsibility for testing the 2008 Tour was that the ASO felt that the UCI had intentionally damaged the TdF by concealing that Rasmussen had a number of missed tests.

Landis was caught when the UCI and the ASO were at war.

From your list, that leaves Di Luca, whose doping was glaringly obvious. Who knows why Di Luca went down. Maybe he really was dumb enough to use CERA.

When Armstrong was shown to have used EPO, the UCI circled the wagons and produced a bogus report to explain them away--or, more precisely, to explain why he could not be sanctioned.
 

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When Armstrong was shown to have used EPO, the UCI circled the wagons and produced a bogus report to explain them away--or, more precisely, to explain why he could not be sanctioned.

No doping authority found he has used EPO, of course. The urine sample was not kept in labotory conditions. That's why they threw it out.
 
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BroDeal said:
Kohl and Ricco were caught by the AFLD testing the 2008 TdF. The UCI had nothing to do with it.

Basso and Ullrich were caught by a police investigation that had nothing to do with the UCI.

Rasmussen was "caught" by an Italian TV commentator mentioning that he saw Ras in Italy when he was supposedly in Mexico. One of the reasons the AFLD was given responsibility for testing the 2008 Tour was that the ASO felt that the UCI had intentionally damaged the TdF by concealing that Rasmussen had a number of missed tests.

Landis was caught when the UCI and the ASO were at war.

From your list, that leaves Di Luca, whose doping was glaringly obvious. Who knows why Di Luca went down. Maybe he really was dumb enough to use CERA.

When Armstrong was shown to have used EPO, the UCI circled the wagons and produced a bogus report to explain them away--or, more precisely, to explain why he could not be sanctioned.
In other words: No big names get caught, except the big names who do get caught and those don't count, ergo no big names get caught. I'm sure you'll have another excuse the next time some star tests positive. It must be comfortable to have beliefs immune to falsification.

But seriously, why do you have such trouble with the concept of people using doping methods that don’t show up in tests? There really is no need to invent shadowy and implausible conspiracies to explain the rarity of positives.
 
Cerberus said:
In other words: No big names get caught, except the big names who do get caught and those don't count, ergo no big names get caught. I'm sure you'll have another excuse the next time some star tests positive. It must be comfortable to have beliefs immune to falsification.

But seriously, why do you have such trouble with the concept of people using doping methods that don’t show up in tests? There really is no need to invent shadowy and implausible conspiracies to explain the rarity of positives.

I don't have trouble with the concept of people using undetectable methods. Why do you have a problem with someone pointing out that the majority of someone's examples of the UCI busting a big name rider do not apply because it was not the UCI?
 
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BroDeal said:
I don't have trouble with the concept of people using undetectable methods.
Then why the conspiracy theories?
BroDeal said:
Why do you have a problem with someone pointing out that the majority of someone's examples of the UCI busting a big name rider do not apply because it was not the UCI?
I don't, but Di Luca and Landis were by the UCI.

Riders, big or small get caught for the same reasons:
1)When they're dumb enough to use stuff that shows up in tests (Landis, Di Luca, Astarloza, Vinokourov etc.)
2) When a new test comes out, detecting an until then undetectable substance (Kohl, Schumacher, Riccardo etc.)
3) When doping that is genuinely undetectable is revealed through other means (Ulrich, Basso, Rasmussen etc.).

If you have any evidence that there is a big shadowy conspiracy manufacturing both false positives and false negatives according to some nefarious agenda then by all means share. Until you do I'm going to assume that a positive means a positive and a negative means a negative, at least to the extend that the tests are able to detect such things.

Ah and one last thing. You guys are aware that most riders are not in the top 10 right? Unless only the top 10 riders use doping it's to be expected that many of the people caught aren't in the top 10. In fact top ten guys would likely have access to higher quality and thus less detectable doping. No conspiracies required
 
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Gee ur a common genius....

Ok so I'm a new member right. But i've been reading the forum long enough to know that I don't know **** about doping compared to people who have been in the game for 15+ years, and have seen many a new guy come on and make points which have been raised hundreds of times, but thinks he's the first.
SUCH AS:
"In fact top ten guys would likely have access to higher quality and thus less detectable doping. No conspiracies required". No ones ever thought of that or brought that up, its such a cutting edge point.

You have made that mistake. just then...




Ok so who believes what so far, 3 options.

A) He did it.
B) Legit screw up with A sample, B-Sample will be negative...(Lol, wld be interesting to see that happen)
C) The Sacrificial Spaniard
 
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wpsracing78 said:
Gee ur a common genius....

Ok so I'm a new member right. But i've been reading the forum long enough to know that I don't know **** about doping compared to people who have been in the game for 15+ years, and have seen many a new guy come on and make points which have been raised hundreds of times, but thinks he's the first.
SUCH AS:
"In fact top ten guys would likely have access to higher quality and thus less detectable doping. No conspiracies required". No ones ever thought of that or brought that up, its such a cutting edge point.
Apparently some people haven't thought of that or they wouldn't have to resort to conspiracy theories - that makes it a point worth making even if it has been said before. Now if you don't want to make any point that's not entirely novel to the forum or the internet in general then feel free to shut up permanently, because virtually everything has been said before. Myself I make no pretension to 100% originality, simple relevance will do for me, so tune down the snootiness k?
 
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Cerberus said:
Then why the conspiracy theories?

I don't, but Di Luca and Landis were by the UCI.

Riders, big or small get caught for the same reasons:
1)When they're dumb enough to use stuff that shows up in tests (Landis, Di Luca, Astarloza, Vinokourov etc.)
2) When a new test comes out, detecting an until then undetectable substance (Kohl, Schumacher, Riccardo etc.)
3) When doping that is genuinely undetectable is revealed through other means (Ulrich, Basso, Rasmussen etc.).

If you have any evidence that there is a big shadowy conspiracy manufacturing both false positives and false negatives according to some nefarious agenda then by all means share. Until you do I'm going to assume that a positive means a positive and a negative means a negative, at least to the extend that the tests are able to detect such things.

Ah and one last thing. You guys are aware that most riders are not in the top 10 right? Unless only the top 10 riders use doping it's to be expected that many of the people caught aren't in the top 10. In fact top ten guys would likely have access to higher quality and thus less detectable doping. No conspiracies required
Your right that there is nothing manufacturing false positives or "negatives". But there is some real 'conspiracy' here. One of the charges Dr. Ferrari had on him was criminal conspiracy, fraud, etc. His friend Conconi worked for the uci and sold epo at the same time to riders in the early 90s. There is a long storied criminal conspiracy in cycling which involves the uci.

Also, now rumors that only some bio passports can be opened and others must remain closed. There could be real truth behind this.