ASTHMA INHALERS

[Cycle Chic]

I,ve just visited the XC- Skiing thread and its interesting reading - should really have its own thread. The adrenaline benefits last for hours

Can we also start posting info on inhalers and their superpowers here.

ttp://www.tv2.no/sport/8560242/
this danish researcher (morten hostrup) from the famous/esteemed bispebjerg hospital in copenhagen (the same place the current fis antidoping tzar and formerly the uci's antidoping expert mr.damsgaard conducted his research in/from) calls the spade a spade...my translation of some parts that jumped at me:

'the asthma meds enhance performance including in the healthy, even in small dozes...the performance effect is NOT on endurance BUT on power and speed...it is not about the increased lung ventilation or lung capacity (claimed by the drug apologists - python), but about something similar to the adrenaline rush except the effect may last not minutes but for several hours...is this doping ?...well, if not doping, it is an extra therapeutic abuse...'
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
As for Marit, without the medicine, she would have no chance' -OEB
User avatar

 

[Cycle Chic]

Mo Farah changed asthma medication after moving to work with Alberto Salazar... but representatives say it is just a coincidence

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3145113/Mo-Farah-changed-asthma-medication-moving-work-Alberto-Salazar-representatives-say-just-coincidence.html#ixzz4JHNrTdkU
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does he keep this quiet or am I behind ?

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=31239

Mark L

I did look for a thread already open but couldnt find it.....close this one down...thanks mods

 

[Gloin22]

Salbutamol is also a good fat cutter, many people prefer it over clen as it has far less side effects, it's not as potent on equal basis, but if you take it few times a day it has very similar effect.

 

[Puckfiend]

Does Omar Fraile have asthma? I noticed on Stage 15, he reached into his back pocket, pulled something out holding his hand in a manner like this:

shook it visably, brought it to his mouth, (the camera angle was from the rear) and returned it to his pocket. I thought it weird at the moment because you don't usually come out of your pocket holding something in that stretched "c" position. To be fair, I couldn't see what he was holding, just the way he was holding it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

A little sanity check for this thread. Common classes of asthma inhalers actually need asthma to provide oxygen transport benefits. The drug sends a signal to relax the muscles that constrict in an asthma attack. No asthma? No constriction to relieve.

Per Gloin22, the beta-x agonists are a killer weight loss tactic. Easy to get a TUE, easy prescription and very safe.

 

[Cloxxki]

I use a salbutamol Ventolin powder diskus, 200mcg. Ususally one, sometimes 2 if I did it incorrectly. Enough to free up the bronchii.
How much weight loss and anabolic effect would this bring?

I quit competitive cycling because I became dependent to salbutamol, it was on The List. For a TUE you needed to know someone who knew how to handle it. And I just didn't want to be on doping and race, TUE or not. Now, turns out it IS a hardcore drug, despite the List lift.
I am allowed to take 8 or more dosages, but really only need one, two for important races I suppose. And it doesn't always take all problems away. Should I breath through a whole Ventolin discus before an event? No, because that's hardcore doping. Sigh...

 

[buckle]

Asthma is now an essential medical condition for elite sportsmen.

 

[python]

since the thread originator clipped my post from the the xc-ski thread (no i am not mad at anyoe ), i felt this thread may lack the background we have accumulated in the xc ski thread re. the sundby positive...hence,to provide the proper context and enhance the discussion, i'll try to briefly compensate for such an 'omission':

1. the wada rules regulating the use of the class of medications IN GENERAL have been relaxing over the last few years. if memory serves, until 2009 many current users would be considered hard core dopers...leaving aside the history, as of 2016 the wada requires that the use of asthma med salbutamol (as an example) should meet the following...

2. prohibited at all times are Tablet (that is, ingestion) and injecting (that is, needles). the Inhalers are allowed w/o a tue. yes, you can puff in as much as 1600 mcg of salbutamol per 24 h w/o ever consulting a doctor or actually having an asthma. all that as long as your urine concentration of salbutamol is not over 1000 ng/mL. and even if its over 1000 ng/mL, the rule still may be (just MAY BE) considered as an adverse analytical finding. such rules are anything, but straighforward. in one word, for whatever reasons, wada left plenty of room for abuse.

3. here we need to make an important explanatory note that many fans seem to be confused about. that is, about whether the class of meds is a ped ? clarifying in 4.

4. wada has no doubt they are performance enhancing ! hence, the prohibition of the tablets and the needles. the gray space is the mode of administration via inhaling. the whole trick is whether the drug gets into one's circulation in the sufficiently high concentrations. such as when swallowed. yet, according to prevailing (but imo outdated) studies, if the small drug doze is delivered via a metered doze device ( a puffer) to just the lungs, there is very little chance of it getting into the blood circulation. clearly, the abusers try to puff a lot more than allowed (1600 mcg) in the hope that their urine is not tested or, if tested, would fall below 1000 ng due to passage of time...

5. and if the drug did get into the circulation in the sufficient amounts, what are the performance benefits ? as was already noted above, and this is well documented, it is a multiple...from, a fat burner to speed/strength to time to exhaustion improvements...

if it is still not clear that the anti-athsma med abuse is easy, wide-spread and effective, b/c the wada rules invite it de facto, i can't add more to this post...

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re:

since the thread originator clipped my post from the the xc-ski thread (no i am not mad at anyoe ), i felt this thread may lack the background we have accumulated in the xc ski thread re. the sundby positive...hence,to provide the proper context and enhance the discussion, i'll try to briefly compensate for such an 'omission':

1. the wada rules regulating the use of the class of medications IN GENERAL have been relaxing over the last few years. if memory serves, until 2009 many current users would be considered hard core dopers...leaving aside the history, as of 2016 the wada requires that the use of asthma med salbutamol (as an example) should meet the following...

2. prohibited at all times are Tablet (that is, ingestion) and injecting (that is, needles). the Inhalers are allowed w/o a tue. yes, you can puff in as much as 1600 mcg of salbutamol per 24 h w/o ever consulting a doctor or actually having an asthma. all that as long as your urine concentration of salbutamol is not over 1000 ng/mL. and even if its over 1000 ng/mL, the rule still may be (just MAY BE) considered as an adverse analytical finding. such rules are anything, but straighforward. in one word, for whatever reasons, wada left plenty of room for abuse.

3. here we need to make an important explanatory note that many fans seem to be confused about. that is, about whether the class of meds is a ped ? clarifying in 4.

4. wada has no doubt they are performance enhancing ! hence, the prohibition of the tablets and the needles. the gray space is the mode of administration via inhaling. the whole trick is whether the drug gets into one's circulation in the sufficiently high concentrations. such as when swallowed. yet, according to prevailing (but imo outdated) studies, if the small drug doze is delivered via a metered doze device ( a puffer) to just the lungs, there is very little chance of it getting into the blood circulation. clearly, the abusers try to puff a lot more than allowed (1600 mcg) in the hope that their urine is not tested or, if tested, would fall below 1000 ng due to passage of time...

5. and if the drug did get into the circulation in the sufficient amounts, what are the performance benefits ? as was already noted above, and this is well documented, it is a multiple...from, a fat burner to speed/strength to time to exhaustion improvements...

if it is still not clear that the anti-athsma med abuse is easy, wide-spread and effective, b/c the wada rules invite it de facto, i can't add more to this post...

thanks Python sorry about that

 

[Cycle Chic]

anyone know Cavendish is also an ASTHMATIC ?

“I use an inhaler myself and have done since I was 15,” he says. “I use salbutamol, which doesn’t require a TUE. But you have to take asthma seriously.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/10/17/mark-cavendish-i-always-had-a-weird-relationship-with-bradley-wi/

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

anyone know Cavendish is also an ASTHMATIC ?

“I use an inhaler myself and have done since I was 15,” he says. “I use salbutamol, which doesn’t require a TUE. But you have to take asthma seriously.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/10/17/mark-cavendish-i-always-had-a-weird-relationship-with-bradley-wi/

A lot of asthmatic's turn to sports such as swimming and cycling.

 

[sniper]

So what? Asthmatics are still a minority of the worlds population.
The point is to explain why the majority of (brittish) procyclist are (viz. claim to be) asthmatic.

 

[Cycle Chic]

what a stupid post Sniper - you should know better

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

4. wada has no doubt they are performance enhancing ! hence, the prohibition of the tablets and the needles. the gray space is the mode of administration via inhaling. the whole trick is whether the drug gets into one's circulation in the sufficiently high concentrations. such as when swallowed. yet, according to prevailing (but imo outdated) studies, if the small drug doze is delivered via a metered doze device ( a puffer) to just the lungs, there is very little chance of it getting into the blood circulation. clearly, the abusers try to puff a lot more than allowed (1600 mcg) in the hope that their urine is not tested or, if tested, would fall below 1000 ng due to passage of time...

Awesome. Lets see your evidence for this and a list of which studies are outdated and why.

 

[python]

the task is on you genius to produce the evidence on something you doubt. produce a single case where i misread the wada code. then, i'll oblige if you stumble.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

the task is on you genius to produce the evidence on something you doubt. produce a single case where i misread the wada code. then, i'll oblige if you stumble.

You made a claim, back it up. Which studies are outdated and why?

 

[python]

you expressed a general doubt of a very concrete information provided for the benefit of other posters. in fact appreciated by some posters. your doubt was expressed in a mocking way. back up your claims, clarify them or change the the tone to a genuine discussion voice.

until then, you cant count on anyone discussing seriously with you a science subject you never showed a proficiency in. besides, i have some evidence you have a reading comprehension issues with subjects far removed from science.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

you expressed a general doubt of a very concrete information provided for the benefit of other posters. in fact appreciated by some posters. your doubt was expressed in a mocking way. back up your claims, clarify them or change the the tone to a genuine discussion voice.

until then, you cant count on anyone discussing seriously with you a science subject you never showed a proficiency in. besides, i have some evidence you have a reading comprehension issues with subjects far removed from science.

What are you talking about? I haven't made any claims at all.

You have claimed that the current research is outdated. Back it up. I likely have access to any papers you reference so don't worry about that.

 

[python]

are you talking to yourself ? you made a claim of disbelieving, in a mocking way, of some very specific information i posted. if you have the acccess, as you claim, you can easily focus on what you doubt. or express it clearly and specifically to remove mocking. besides, as i said, your reading comprehension in my assessment was seriously lacking in the subject far removed from science. until then you'll have to improve or measure up or eat own crap.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

are you talking to yourself ? you made a claim of disbelieving, in a mocking way, of some very specific information i posted. if you have the acccess, as you claim, you can easily focus on what you doubt. or express it clearly and specifically to remove mocking. besides, as i said, your reading comprehension in my assessment was seriously lacking in the subject far removed from science. until then you'll have to improve or measure up or eat own crap.

Err no, I made no claim. Feel free to quote the claim you think I made. I made a request for information from you to back up your claim. It is very clear what I asked for, a list of the studies you believe to be outdated and why. It really shouldn't be difficult.

And, I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but how about you fill me in what you are talking about in terms of my lack of reading comprehension? Because I really haven't got a clue what you are referring to.

 

[python]

let's start with the last...appreciate the admission you haven't gotten a clue. again, eat your own attitude b/c the mocking tone was not set up by me. i will certainly clue you in re. the lack of your reading comprehension if, when and, most importantly where that's going not to be off topic . i promise. i guarantee. you exposed yourself as incapable to count, to read, to reason...all ignored by me until you asked for it...

regarding your other fluff, i have a suggestion...log in as a different poster. a poster w/o an attitude. a poster with a genuine interest in a contribution of another poster that may have raised questions. that would be fair. i guarantee you, as i scientist i would jump at the opportunity to engage in a discussing i invested my time in and made some assumptions about. btw, never failing to differentiate btwn what was my opinion vs. a fact i restated. i guarantee you, every word and every statement i made was considered and thought through in the light of the subject studies. i do have the references for my statements, the names and the studies.

unfortunately for you, unlike the numerous real, attitude-free discussants on the forum i had enjoyed exploring the numerous scientific issues, you are not one of them.

eat your own attitude. or change it to what meets a simple criteria a concerned scientist would try to practice when engaging a fellow.

 

[blutto]

....sorry to barge in but I have a question...

....just prior to my last season of racing , after some discussion with my GP, went to get checked out for asthma....well I got a Gold Star in the asthma sweepstakes and was put on some puffers, Salbutamol and Ventolin (?)....and gosh these things proved awesome....breathing and racing really go well together, they really do....

....so here is the question....I did lose significant weight quicker relative to other seasons of racing ( ended up slightly less than normal but got there real quick )....now was that because the intensity of training was higher, which it most definitely was...or was it just a response to the chemicals...or put another way would a couch potato lose weight if he were given puffers....

Cheers

 

[King Boonen]

Well let's start with the first. I clearly said I haven't got a clue what you are babbling on about re reading comprehension. Although I'm aware of your like for taking things out of context so let me be very clear. I have a very good understanding of the subject matter I am attempting to get you to discuss. I'm not going to have some publication waving contest and I don't believe in attempting to argue from authority (which we'll get to later).

So basically you have nothing to back up your claim that the studies are outdated, or your claim of my lack of reading comprehension (although now apparently I can't actually read or count?) and the best you can do is argument from authority fallacy? You also suggest that I make sock puppet accounts that is clearly against the rules?

It really is a very simple question, one to which you apparently already have the answers. I wouldn't have asked if I wasn't interested.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

....sorry to barge in but I have a question...

....just prior to my last season of racing , after some discussion with my GP, went to get checked out for asthma....well I got a Gold Star in the asthma sweepstakes and was put on some puffers, Salbutamol and Ventolin (?)....and gosh these things proved awesome....breathing and racing really go well together, they really do....

....so here is the question....I did lose significant weight quicker relative to other seasons of racing ( ended up slightly less than normal but got there real quick )....now was that because the intensity of training was higher, which it most definitely was...or was it just a response to the chemicals...or put another way would a couch potato lose weight if he were given puffers....

Cheers

Salbutamol and ventolin are the same thing so if you are on two inhalers one must be something else. There is data to suggest salbutamol could be used to increase weight loss but it has a very short half life compared to clenbuterol which would work better for this.

They promote weight loss as they are thermogenic, they cause you to produce more heat by increasing your base metabolic rate. Caffeine acts in a similar way as does ephedrine. This means that if someone were to maintain a strict calorie controlled diet and abuse salbutamol you would expect them to lose some weight, but the effects are not going to be big at all.

It's more likely that treating your asthma has allowed you to significantly increase your training load and that has had a much bigger effect on your weight loss.