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At what point did cycling become "clean"?

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sublimit

sublimit

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Benotti69 said:
Yes. It crosses the line of external assistance, but as with lots of cheating in the sport a blind eye is turned towards it.
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The unashamed drafting of riders that are out the back really bugs me also. Particularly with Phil Gilbert amongst the worst culprits on that one but could include any team leader or important rider whereas lesser riders are just jettisoned and left for dead.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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gooner said:
You can say it if you wish but the logic behind it can be questioned if it's done on this lines. Saying guys are dopers due to hanging on to cars or the stickybottle incidents is an absurd way of coming to that conclusion.

The reference to Suarez is an incident where he dived at Stoke. Pires was a serial diver in his time. The same now with Ashley Young. I'm drawing comparison with football and cheating incidents. Should we call these dopers on the back of it? Benotti draws no distinction and says it's directly linked to saying that guys would dope as a result.

Agree with your point on the testing.
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You really are desperate. "Guys are dopers because they hang on to cars" now wtf did i say that?

If someone is going to cheat, they cross a line, will everyone who crosses the line cheat in the same manner, probably not, but when it is explained that one is as bad as the other well most will say hanging on to cars/motos or transfusions, give me the transfusion as the commissaire and TV cameras are not going to be watching....

You think a guy will hang on a car and say it is not cheating but doing a blood bag is and cannot see they amount to that same thing? i.e. cheating! Wow give the riders some intelligence.......some of the time at least.
 
Netserk

Netserk

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Benotti69 said:
You really are desperate. "Guys are dopers because they hang on to cars" now wtf did i say that?

If someone is going to cheat, they cross a line, will everyone who crosses the line cheat in the same manner, probably not, but when it is explained that one is as bad as the other well most will say hanging on to cars/motos or transfusions, give me the transfusion as the commissaire and TV cameras are not going to be watching....

You think a guy will hang on a car and say it is not cheating but doing a blood bag is and cannot see they amount to that same thing? i.e. cheating! Wow give the riders some intelligence.......some of the time at least.
Click to expand...

Right about here:

doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope.
Click to expand...
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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gooner said:
Sigh.

Luis Suarez must be a doper by your ridiculous logic.
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Suarez, the guy who makes racist comments, bites ears and dives? Would he dope? No he is a saint ;)

He is also South American and they dont dope, ask Ryo :D
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
You really are desperate. "Guys are dopers because they hang on to cars" now wtf did i say that?

If someone is going to cheat, they cross a line, will everyone who crosses the line cheat in the same manner, probably not, but when it is explained that one is as bad as the other well most will say hanging on to cars/motos or transfusions, give me the transfusion as the commissaire and TV cameras are not going to be watching....

You think a guy will hang on a car and say it is not cheating but doing a blood bag is and cannot see they amount to that same thing? i.e. cheating! Wow give the riders some intelligence.......some of the time at least.
Click to expand...

More than a line, they are eras, and risks.. The typical rider dope if most of the cyclist dope, and if the risk of be caucht is low...so, most of the riders doped in the past and dont dope now, it is not a question: he has been once ilegal or antiethical, so, he will do that always...

There are as well some riders that have never doped, nor in the past nor now, for a question of principles, riders with quality that dont need doping to be at a profesional level or even in the top, anyway..., as well that there are riders that will be always trying how to cheat, and even when the risk is hight, they will try...they could go far, as Santambroglio, but finally Police is not stupid...

But most of riders go with the time...if they dont have a pressure to dope, thet dont do, and most of riders started in profesional cycling after 2008 are clean riders without the pressure or the need to dope, by the contrary, an strong pressure by the society to dont dope, basically, for the media and scandals

If you read Hamilton book, you will see how he started to race clean, he didnt want to dope... the pressure and the environment made him dope, and how at the end of his career he didnt dope... and how he think that today people dont dope in general, becouse there are biopasport and Adams, as well a discredit sport with lot of secrets revealed, and that way you are not in the choice he had to face.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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Netserk said:
Right about here:
Click to expand...

"Guys are dopers because they hang on to cars"

"doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope."

I beg to differ.

If you are going to cheat why hang on to a car when you can PED. Guys who will hang on to cars, why wont they PED?
 
proffate

proffate

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Benotti69 said:
"Guys are dopers because they hang on to cars"

"doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope."

I beg to differ.

If you are going to cheat why hang on to a car when you can PED. Guys who will hang on to cars, why wont they PED?
Click to expand...

I don't think this is fair, you can't say that someone is willing to rob a bank just because they ran a red light in their car (both are crimes, by your logic a criminal is a criminal).

Obviously drafting cars is a bit different than doping, but I would even say it improves the spectacle of the racing. If there's a race where a big favorite gets a flat, I'd rather see him draft back up to the front so we can see a duel between the heads of state rather than just watch a slightly less competitive race. No one is going out of their way to flat just so they can get a draft later...
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

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proffate said:
I don't think this is fair, you can't say that someone is willing to rob a bank just because they ran a red light in their car (both are crimes, by your logic a criminal is a criminal).
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I think what Benotti is saying is: if someone was a thief already, and they had an opportunity to rob a bank, their predilection for stealing things would lead to a greater likelihood of taking part vs someone who (for instance) sells drugs for their livelihood, or (accidentally or otherwise) ran a red light. Running red lights doesn't generate you income, and is not something that would necessarily be behaviorally reinforcing.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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proffate said:
I don't think this is fair, you can't say that someone is willing to rob a bank just because they ran a red light in their car (both are crimes, by your logic a criminal is a criminal).
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We are talking in the confines of a sporting environment.

Stupid comparison of running a red light to hanging onto cars.

proffate said:
Obviously drafting cars is a bit different than doping, but I would even say it improves the spectacle of the racing. If there's a race where a big favorite gets a flat, I'd rather see him draft back up to the front so we can see a duel between the heads of state rather than just watch a slightly less competitive race. No one is going out of their way to flat just so they can get a draft later...
Click to expand...

I am of the opinion that cheating is cheating. If the rule books state that drafting is illegal then it is cheating. If the rule book changes that, then it is no longer cheating.

I dont expect the sport to be perfect in how it is policed as it is run by humans and everyone knows the inherent problems with that.
 
gooner

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sniper said:
it's baffling. what's their motive ffs? sheer stupidity?
why didn't velonation ask cookson for a reaction.
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They contacted the UCI. There's no response. This is entirely separate from Cookson.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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sniper said:
it's baffling. what's their motive ffs? sheer stupidity?
why didn't velonation ask cookson for a reaction.
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motivation is personal, vindictive and petty, all pretty much in line with how they ran cycling.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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RCS have no problem with doping

Giro d'Italia ‏@giroditalia 1h
Stephen Roche will be the third champion to enter the Giro d'Italia Hall of Fame: Tuesday, February 25! pic.twitter.com/oFN7s8r3qn
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The culture to dope is alive and kicking. Wonder will Conconi be there?
 
blackcat

blackcat

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Jeremiah said:
Bodybuilding is a sport?
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yeah, and the athletes are truly committed. To pay for their expensive sport and Ferrari like doping expense, they usually become one of two things.

i)rent boys, who throw around men who like men just wearing a thong. they might wear less or do more depending on the cash. The professional female bodybuilders get the same work from hetero men.

ii) drug dealers.
 
S

sniper

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Benotti69 said:
The culture to dope is alive and kicking
Click to expand...
Roche entering the hall of fame in this age of new clean cycling is quite the irony, indeed.
In the coming days let's count the number of angry reactions from present-day clean racers/DSs/UCI officials.
 
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