Athlete "Hall of Shame" Top 10

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Well, Tiger is considered in a poor light not just because he cheated on his wife with several women, but because he tried to portray an image of a happy family man in selling all kinds of product to people. It makes him look like a bald-faced liar and hypocrite.

As I noted, if Lance is somehow convicted, as in "in court" conviction, then he could be in the middle of such a list, probably close to Bonds, or Clemens (who doesn't belong at the top, no way. Maybe above Bonds).

It all depends on the criteria, and how deep you want to search for crooks and losers. But no matter what Tiger did, or Lance is proved of doing, it can't come close to the murder, rape and torture that some of these other criminals did.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Well, Tiger is considered in a poor light not just because he cheated on his wife with several women, but because he tried to portray an image of a happy family man in selling all kinds of product to people. It makes him look like a bald-faced liar and hypocrite.

As I noted, if Lance is somehow convicted, as in "in court" conviction, then he could be in the middle of such a list, probably close to Bonds, or Clemens (who doesn't belong at the top, no way. Maybe above Bonds).

It all depends on the criteria, and how deep you want to search for crooks and losers. But no matter what Tiger did, or Lance is proved of doing, it can't come close to the murder, rape and torture that some of these other criminals did.
That such a wholesome image was such a strong selling point at all, fits precisely into the cultural framework I expressed above.
 
I bet when the conviction finally comes, the USA will drop cycling like a bad habit, and Lance may still not make the list due to forgottenness a few years after.
Cycling? Isn't that a Euro thing?
 
Cloxxki: I bet when the conviction finally comes, the USA will drop cycling like a bad habit,
I don't think that will happen. As the old saying goes about the Tour makes the riders, not the other way around, I think cycling will do okay without Lance. I'd say for most people now, and definitely in the future, Lance is just one part of cycling, not the other way around.

There have always been a ton of recreational cyclists before Lance, and these people won't stop riding bikes to the park, school, work and such. And there was a surprisingly large and competitive racing scene in the US that was mostly underground, but still did well, even before LeMond came along. It may not have been on TV, or had big sponsors, but it did well, and will in the future.

Lance's fall will hurt cycling some, but not much more than the steroid scandal hurt baseball, which is recovering okay.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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apple pie and chevrolet

rhubroma said:
No, yes it does L,M&G. (snipped for everyone's sanity)
huh?

my opinion:
tiger and RC rank too high on the list due to the "recency effect". a well understood cognitive bias in which recent events weigh more heavily than they should. also, americans suffering from boredom love gossip, especially embarrassing stories about the sex lives of celebrities. news media know this and use it very effectively to sell advertising.

your opinion:
an invisible yet all-powerful american elite find it necessary to perpetuate an underlying imperceptible puritan ethos which commands americans to view infidelity and PED use as far worse than rape and murder. for some unknown reason, this is necessary for the powerful american elite to obtain world domination. this media filtering is executed to perfection and aided by propoganda films like "forest gump". these big budget mind-altering hollywood creations are used to indoctrinate impressionable youth in the US and exported around the globe to perpetuate a positive world view of our infidelity/PED hating and simultaneously rape/murder loving country.

i'm going to stick with what i said earlier, thanks tho. ;)
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Maxiton said:
Actually he bet on baseball while still playing. And while he always denied betting on games he was playing in, there's simply no way to determine if that's true, and no reason to take his word for it.
So we're gonna keep an exceptionally talented athlete out of the Hall of Fame over something that can't be proven ???

My arguement is that they're two separate issues.

If people have a problem with him betting on baseball, take him to court, put Jeff Novitzky on him, fine him, jail him, etc.

You can't bet on something without at least two parties participating. Someone out there knows the truth

But don't keep him out of the Hall of Fame over speculation .....
 
lean said:
huh?

my opinion:
tiger and RC rank too high on the list due to the "recency effect". a well understood cognitive bias in which recent events weigh more heavily than they should. also, americans suffering from boredom love gossip, especially embarrassing stories about the sex lives of celebrities. news media know this and use it very effectively to sell advertising.

your opinion:
an invisible yet all-powerful american elite find it necessary to perpetuate an underlying imperceptible puritan ethos which commands americans to view infidelity and PED use as far worse than rape and murder. for some unknown reason, this is necessary for the powerful american elite to obtain world domination. this media filtering is executed to perfection and aided by propoganda films like "forest gump". these big budget mind-altering hollywood creations are used to indoctrinate impressionable youth in the US and exported around the globe to perpetuate a positive world view of our infidelity/PED hating and simultaneously rape/murder loving country.

i'm going to stick with what i said earlier, thanks tho. ;)
You obviously see things only from within, which is so typical. Plus your critique of my major point that, whether you like it or not, there does exist a puritanical ethos in American society historically (which, among other cases, significantly explains why the political enemies of a former president could use marital infidelity as leverage to have him nearly impeached for lying, or why an athlete should make a top ten disgrace list directly or indirectly for the same offence) was confounding and entirely missed the point. It isn't based on whether you think it exists. It simply does as a cultural fact, as anyone observing in Europe is aware.

Whereas if you don't believe that the US corporate, financial (I'm talking about Wall Street and the World Bank) and government powers have not coroborated in the post WW II period, and with their closest allies who recieve preferential treatment in exchange for loyalty to the great plan, to realize a global empire entailing the creation of Banana Republics in Central and South America, Saudi royal support and debt-beholden nations in Indonesia and Africa who they can thus count on for material, strategic and political support (in the UN) in what amounts to a state of medieval servitude for all but 1% of these populations that is far from "invisible," then I suggest you do some research. Those that don't go along with the plan often get eliminated by the jackles a la Mossadegh, Allende, Roldòs and Torrijos. If you haven't heard of some of these political leaders, I wouldn't be surprised at all. By contrast, when convenience and poltical expediency command the policy, bloody dictators like Idi Amin and future criminals like Osama bin Laden find refuge and are finaced by the consequent bi-products of this corporatocracy. As far as the power of persuasion of images go and brands: you have obviously never studied the great History of Art. Stick to your illusions, though, if you like. Ciao.
 
Semi-off topic as it doesn't really deserve its own thread perhaps:

Anyone notice? G.W. Bush switched bike brands. He was recently fitted with a Niner 29" XC Full Suspension bike.
Shocking as it may seem, Bush (at least now) has smarter advisors than Lance, and switches to a more pioneering US brand.
Perhaps the guy just wanted a new bike (who doesn't?), but I declare it a breach with Trek and Lance, to minimize his association, anticipating something a federal officer may have briefed his advisory board on.

Junior wanted to try 29" (single smart thing I heard from the guy), and somehow didn't end up with Trek's newly incorperated Gary Fisher collection of excellent 29"er. Lance even raced a Fisher Superfly at times.
 
Jul 3, 2010
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I feel like this hall of shame list needs to include everyone. Every person in sports is looking for their edge to be better then the other person so they can impress their fans and fans of the sport.
Ill use tiger for example, before his sex scandel, the guy had a 20/15 eye sight thanks to lasik surgery. That's cheating right? What should we call that laser assisted ocular doping?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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tockit said:
So we're gonna keep an exceptionally talented athlete out of the Hall of Fame over something that can't be proven ???

My arguement is that they're two separate issues.

If people have a problem with him betting on baseball, take him to court, put Jeff Novitzky on him, fine him, jail him, etc.

You can't bet on something without at least two parties participating. Someone out there knows the truth

But don't keep him out of the Hall of Fame over speculation .....
Rose bet on baseball while he played/managed...and broke a major rule of MLB. He did nothing illegal in terms of laws and courts, so no jail time. The bookie who took his bets did nothing wrong, its not up to the bookie to police MLB, the bookie just wants his money if Rose loses.

I don't care how great a player Rose was, and my Dad loved him, but when players start messing with the integrity of the game...be it betting, using PED's to up their stats, they have no place in the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame is just not about stats but how a player conducted his life as a professional.
 
DAOTEC said:
Looks like we have a couple of new frontrunners:
They're not American.

And the list is a joke anyway. No Marion Jones or Tim Montgomery etc. They put up Tiger Woods but not someone who cheated, got caught and served a jail sentence for lying about cheating. C'mon people.
 
Apr 23, 2010
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Polish said:
Here is an Athlete "Hall of Shame" compiled by NBCSports:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37571954/ns/sports/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1

The Top 10 American Shameful are:
1) Roger Clemens
2) O.J. Simpson
3) Tiger Woods
4) Pete Rose
5) Mike Tyson
6) Barry Bonds
7) "Shoeless" Joe Jackson
8) Lawrence Taylor
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Mark McGwire

Three questions:
1) Will Lance crack the Top 10?
2) If yes, where will he end up on the list?
3) If yes, who will get bumped out of the Top 10?
What BS. O.J. is a murderer. Tyson is a rapist. If they don't take the number one and two positions the something is wrong with the editorial staff at NBC. Why does that not surprise me?
 
Apr 23, 2010
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lean said:
is that a rhetorical question because the answer(s) are pretty obvious?

blaming americans of racism is a much safer bet than blaming them of puritanism! ;)

EDIT: i'll add the first 3 reasons that spring to mind...
1. personality, BR had a much more likeable persona prior to the event
2. he's white
3. few people see either as rapists, just sexually aggressive, only KB was married at the time
Kobe was perfectly likeable (and speaks fluent Italian, for what it's worth)--perhaps more so than the idiod meathead Rothlisberger. There is no reason for injecting race into it.
 
Apr 23, 2010
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forty four said:
i can ignorant christians. 2010 some believe the bible word for word to this day lol. these same people dont mind reaping the scientific benefits a bunch of atheists produced how ironic. they also see infidelity as worse than rape and if your black well even better there sick weak minded people who live a fear based life.:rolleyes:
If you can't write a coherent English sentence then don't post in "English."
 
Apr 23, 2010
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Joey_J said:
You are innocent until proven guilty. He was not proven guilty therefore he is (chorus please) innocent.
BS. He was ajudicated "not guilty" which means that the prosecution did not meet the burden of proof required in a criminal case-beyond a reasonable doubt. This ajudication is in no way a finding of innocence. You are innocent until proven guilty, once acquitted, you are not guilty. The only chorus would be comprised of clueless idiots like you.
 
Apr 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
That such a wholesome image was such a strong selling point at all, fits precisely into the cultural framework I expressed above.
Some people (although I will admit, not a lot) actually back up that image with character. There's nothing wrong with striving for being good, as an individual or a culture.
 
BASIL USA said:
I feel like this list should be based on things committed within the sporting realm. That does mean that Mike Tyson might make it for biting Evander's ear. Sosa for a corked bat? The Patriots for spying on teams hand signals?
Did you know prior to the Tyson/Holyfield ear biting incident Holyfield had done the same to another fighter? It just didn't happen in the high profile setting of a championship bout. Also in Tyson's defense, Holyfield wasn't exactly the cleanest of fighters, regardless of his clean media image at the time. He was notorious for fighting dirty, with intentional headbutts, one of which was the motivation for Tyson taking a chunk out of his ear.
 
Apr 23, 2010
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BASIL USA said:
The Top 10 American Shameful are:
1) Roger Clemens
2) O.J. Simpson
3) Tiger Woods
4) Pete Rose
5) Mike Tyson
6) Barry Bonds
7) "Shoeless" Joe Jackson
8) Lawrence Taylor
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Mark McGwire

O.J. was found innocent, not that I think he was but those of you calling him a murder might remember that.

Mike Tyson was convicted of rapping a girl that went on a date with him, to his hotel room, removed her tampon and then slept well that night. Oh and she cried rape against her first boyfriend and the DA was a known racist and four jurors asked for a retrial, and evidence was withheld... Check out some facts from his trial: scary. Kobe got done wrong too. He wasn't convicted, but lost some serious cash and made this list for not rapping a girl.

I feel like this list should be based on things committed within the sporting realm. That does mean that Mike Tyson might make it for biting Evander's ear. Sosa for a corked bat? The Patriots for spying on teams hand signals?

How do dopers rank against other cheats? Like those that bet on outcomes of their games? Or those that accepted money while in college?
You sir are a scumbag. Tyson raped (not "rapped" you f**king illiterate baboon) the woman and was convicted by a jury. Simpson butchered two people with a knife. If you believe "if it doesn't fit you must acquit" then you are even more a moron than defending Tyson would indicate.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
What do you think is the best punishment for athletes that dope/cheat?

I considered few options:

1. Build "Hall of Shame" where you would put their data(including picture) to be mocked upon by future generations so that risk of finishing there would counter all possible benefits?

CONS On the other hand athletes live for fame, would even bad fame be good enough for them. There are actually people that like negative/opposite stuff and to them they would be legends.

2. Complete erasure from history books. Sure, they will have benefits for limited period, but in few generations nobody will ever now of their existence - that could hurt their ego.

CONS Athletes have nothing to lose as they can only gain fame if not caught.

3. Sport governing bodies sign contracts with athletes by which they give them a license to compete on that level of sport(something like FIA super license in Formula 1). That contract would also contain an anti-doping clause that would claim huge monetary penalties to the athlete(specific to athlete - big enough to counter all prizes, sponsor deals, etc.) in the case of proven cheating.
Also, countries should/could make laws that tax(or forbid) media covering of sports without such license contracts in place.

CONS?

IMHO, combo 2&3 would be the best.

Other ideas, opinions...?
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Tim_sleepless said:
Seems a bit harsh to put Tiger above Tyson..
Seems completely ridiculous. Tiger's doping isn't that key to his golf game, and marital infidelity is the norm among athletes of his level.

Ray Lewis is missing from the list.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Bicycle said:
Marion Jones surely should be in there - top 5 without question.
Unfortunately it's not a list of the top 10 dopers. So it contains a murderer, several rapists, guys who threw baseball games for gamblers, etc...

As much as I dislike doping, I don't think it compares to murder or rape.
 

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