Australian Crime Commission investigation finds widespread doping

[slowspoke]

First item on the news here in NZ. Times are a changing?

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Graham Cornes is an idiot. Has absolutely no clue about this. Makes me want to scream

Those of you who do not know who he is, he is a sports radio presenter who was a Aussie Rules Footballer and coach.

 

[thrawn]

Graham Cornes is an idiot. Has absolutely no clue about this. Makes me want to scream

Those of you who do not know who he is, he is a sports radio presenter who was a Aussie Rules Footballer and coach.

Mind letting us know what he said?

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Mind letting us know what he said?

He is trying to play this down, claiming it is a beat up, a storm in a team cup there is no names in the report, to is all about potential, suspicion not certain anything has happened. Has said that nothing will be proved at Essendon, they did nothing wrong, it was definitely legal products.
He as his co-host Stephen Rowe interviewed Kate Lundy and it was quite funny. Lundy got on there and was trying to say how it was a great sign for sport that they had found all that had happened, political spinning it into a good news story. It took her awhile to understand Cornes was trying dismiss the report as nothing and then she had to start playing up what they had found.
Cornes still does not understand the difference between a public report which does not give the details due to legal restraints and the private findings which have been given to ASADA and various police forces and the sporting bodies.
They interview John Fahey in about 5 minutes. Their shows are streamed unrestricted worldwide as far as I know on http://www.fiveaa.com.au/player.aspx if you are interested in hearing Fahey interviewed badly.

 

[blackcat]

You will have to excuse me, but really?

Aussie rules and all that?

Dave.

come on Dave, you know Aussies dont dope. Just like Canadians. Only dopes in Canadia (sic) are Pound D!ck

 

[Alphabet]

Ah, my bad. I don't remember Warne getting popped, but then, I would have only been 8 or 9 when that happened.

Still, Inzi carried about 20 or 30 extra kilograms his entire career and he's one of Pak-istan's greatest ever batsmen.

 

[armchairclimber]

No surprises in this report...a nation with a "must win" sporting culture.

 

[buckle]

Assume everyone dopes.

The way forward is to assume that everone dopes and let the burden of proof fall on the athlete/team/sport to prove their clean. It's ridiculous that guys here are posting anonymously. The legal system no longer reflects reality and we should be free to accuse with impunity.

 

[blackcat]

Former ASADA chief executive Richard Ings said today is the blackest day in Australian sport.

I think the same guy can be attributed to saying this about the comparisons with the Armstrong affair. "The difference is Oz threat is current, crosses codes and evolving." I agree with Ron Reed that this makes the doping problem worse than what the Armstrong affair is, considering that was relatively a long time ago.

hyperbole

twig

camel

back

 

[peterst6906]

No surprises in this report...a nation with a "must win" sporting culture.

The sporting culture is not as simple as "must win". There's more to it than that.

While winning is important, within the broader culture there are expectations of fair play (hard, but fair within the rules). Somewhere that has clearly gone awry and I suspect it's due to a combination of the money in professional sport attracting organised crime.

Hopefully the right steps are taken to correct this, though the money is never going away, so I suspect the negative aspects will never go away either.

 

[Alphabet]

This is a bit off-topic, but I've often seen people here say that the AIS is one of the worst sporting institutions in the world when it comes to facilitating doping. Why is that? I don't really know a lot about the AIS, I'd appreciate it if somebody could explain the situation to me .

 

[Alphabet]

No surprises in this report...a nation with a "must win" sporting culture.

I don't think so. We don't resort to open cheating on the field (things like ball tampering in cricket or diving in football), it's not really a "win at all costs" mentality over here. Generally speaking, Australians prefer their sporting teams to win fairly and in as attacking a manner as possible. Former Socceroos coach Pim Verbeek for instance was loathed by the media and the general public because of his defensive and gamesmanship approach to football, even though it got results.

 

[blackcat]

The sporting culture is not as simple as "must win". There's more to it than that.

While winning is important, within the broader culture there are expectations of fair play (hard, but fair within the rules). Somewhere that has clearly gone awry and I suspect it's due to a combination of the money in professional sport attracting organised crime.

Hopefully the right steps are taken to correct this, though the money is never going away, so I suspect the negative aspects will never go away either.

pro sport is one thing. the W

everyone are enablers, unless your have an alternative that works.

sport as an entertainment business. the P&L is the W-L record

 

[blackcat]

Hard to include cricket with the silly rotation policy currently in place in Oz.

Players are rested now when they break a finger nail. No need for performance enhancers.

Although with the current policy, the players may be on recreational drugs, just to cope with the frustrations bought on by management.

the ****e tissue injuries are all cos they take hypertrophy androgens.

these stengthen the red tissue (muscle) make speed and power for the type 1 muscle fibres.

problem, the homones dont stengthen the white tssue. ligaments and tendons = they tear them, break them, need reconstucting. See Tiger Wooods problems with injuries.

bowling is already an action not natural to a human body. now add a power and a ballistic movement the body neve carried the natural strength and explosivity, then we have beakdowns of the body.

Ryan Harris the Australian bowler used to be a mediocre first class cricket for Qld. Then he came to SA about 3 years after, about 2kgs of muscle heavier, and bowling at top about 148-150. Riddle me that. Went from ordinay medium pacer at fist class level to opening the test bowling and leading the attack at Jeff Thompson speed. something is not normail.

 

[sniper]

doesn't Australian rule football have a biopassport?
Could have prevented all this.

 

[blackcat]

Graham Cornes is an idiot. Has absolutely no clue about this. Makes me want to scream

Those of you who do not know who he is, he is a sports radio presenter who was a Aussie Rules Footballer and coach.

ask you sons Gray Gray, they have been doing this $hit

 

[Ferminal]

doesn't Australian rule football have a biopassport?
Could have prevented all this.

Funny, they announced one just last week.

Not that a passport is any good for peptides.

 

[Cookster15]

doesn't Australian rule football have a biopassport?
Could have prevented all this.

As far as I know there is nothing like a biopassport in AFL or NRL. A story in the MSM two days ago said they should look at doing blood testing on AFL players. Nuff said. By the way AFL players can log up to 20 km a game. Blood doping could be kinda handy in the 4th quarter.

I am looking forward to the repercussions. About time these mainstream sports got the blow torch.

 

[blackcat]

Yeah his mum sent him the diuretic to help him look better, absolutely nothing to do with performance enhancing, just a big mistake, we should not even be remembering it is so unfair on him, totally innocent, poor fellow, a real victim in all this.

obviously was a mask.

the thing about the ASADA I cant believe the did a Lance Amstong on him. I was of the opinion Warne was TOO BIG TO FAIL like AIG and Goldmans. He would be protected.

word on the grapevine was his mass spec assays were coming back with funny numbers and then they decided to pop him for the diuretic. like when a highway patrol officer gives you a lesse infingement like failing to use you indicato instead of going 50 miles over the limit.

 

[coinneach]

Sorry to hear it, guys: good luck in getting it cleaned up.
Might be an idea to bear in mind when you go to the polls next

I think the link with gambling is the biggest danger to all sports now.....organised crime is seldom far behind.

Any gambling websites sponcering a cycling team yet?

In a couple of years, I bet there will be

 

[auscyclefan94]

Graham Cornes is an idiot. Has absolutely no clue about this. Makes me want to scream

Those of you who do not know who he is, he is a sports radio presenter who was a Aussie Rules Footballer and coach.

Agreed. The guy finds it amusing when people poor their **** on people at sport. Scum.

John Fahey was very impressive on this topic. He knows his stuff and talks about the denial in sports like AFL when it comes to doping.

 

[peterst6906]

word on the grapevine was his mass spec assays were coming back with funny numbers

That's not a statement that makes any analytical sense.

If you mean his sample was positive for something, but the administrators decided to sanction him for only some of the positive results/or something else entirely, then that is one thing and obviously people would know about that and the lab wouldn't sanction that result, particularly for someone so high profile. It might be possible, but the analytical result wouldn't be 'funny'. So if I've misunderstood your statement and it means this then ok.

But otherwise, the word on the grapevine is a bit of BS.

 

[blackcat]

If you want

+Matt Essendon Bombers Lloyd, not Lampre, hehehhe, hypocrite lloydie

+Ian Thorpe and Gennadi Touretski

+Evans and Michelle Ferrari aka Schumi

 

[blackcat]

That's not a statement that makes any analytical sense.

If you mean his sample was positive for something, but the administrators decided to sanction him for only some of the positive results/or something else entirely, then that is one thing and obviously people would know about that and the lab wouldn't sanction that result, particularly for someone so high profile. It might be possible, but the analytical result wouldn't be 'funny'. So if I've misunderstood your statement and it means this then ok.

But otherwise, the word on the grapevine is a bit of BS.

the bands, the bands, the bands...

they were in the ambiguous sphere,

so when he pops for the diuretic, they never got a TUE backdated

 

[peterst6906]

the bands, the bands, the bands...

they were in the ambiguous sphere,

so when he pops for the diuretic, they never got a TUE backdated

Again BS. A mass spec doesn't produce bands, it's not a chromatography method like a gel.

A method involving a mass spec when coupled with chromatography will produce 2 results, one for the retention characteristics of the analyte (on the chromatograph under a given set of conditions) and the mass spec result, which can be 1 to several dimensions depending on the method.

Both results are very useful for identification and are central to the result.

Mass spec can also be used on it's own for separation (in a time of flight system), which also provides very useful results, depending on the analytes.

Again, the word on the grapevine has little knowledge of analysis.