Babes thread kybosh.

[pedaling squares]

...You sit here on cyclingnews.com and confirm to each other that it is ok to view cycling women as objects who only exist for you to have something to **** over. Weather you are concious about it or not, that attitude will transfer into how you act towards women that you meet out on the road.

No, the point is that people can appreciate beauty. It's nothing to do with objectifying women, just appreciating their beauty. And don't kid yourself into thinking that's a one way street. Women appreciate a handsome man too and don't think that many of them don't check out a fit guy's rear end when he rides by.

My girlfriend liked babes on bikes...not sure the gnomes will take off thou.

No act of bunnilingus shall become popular here.

 

[Bike Opera]

"Those pictures are shameful, dirty and disgusting!! You are sending out dangerous signals that cycling is for men and that women do not belong in cycling!!!

You are banned from looking at women -- and thinking and feeling like a man!! From now on, you will only look at what I allow you to look at!!"

 

[Bike Opera]

No, the point is that people can appreciate beauty. It's nothing to do with objectifying women, just appreciating their beauty. And don't kid yourself into thinking that's a one way street. Women appreciate a handsome man too and don't think that many of them don't check out a fit guy's rear end when he rides by.
No act of bunnilingus shall become popular here.

Yup, I'm guilty of this. I immensely appreciate attractive men and their fit derrieres...but I don't respect them any less.

 

[patricknd]

I certainly do not want to control how you think. I just say that I am happy if CN, as a serious cycling site, chooses not to help promote a view of women which is in my opinion degrading. I said that I think it belongs on other parts of the internet, don't get why that is so provocative to you.

I maintain that I do sense a bit of rage in this thread. I think it is out of proportion.

Comparing me to fanatic sharia supporters is ridiculous. I am against all kinds of oppression. And no, closing a thread on a discussion forum is not oppression.

the key phrase is "in my opinion"

my opinion is that your argument is degrading to men. i call on the mods to lock you down.

 

[WonderLance]

Yup, I'm guilty of this. I immensely appreciate attractive men and their fit derrieres...but I don't respect them any less.

I dont want you to respect me. Just leave me enough for a taxi home.

 

[nowhereman]

Some would think you are being quite rude and condescending right now

They'd be ignorant. I'm simply being, to the point. I could have torn into you other ways if I'd meant to be condescending or rude, I didn't. I simply pointed out that you have no basis whatsoever, to draw the conclusions that you did about anybody who enjoyed that thread. That you didn't like it, Fine. That's your choice. But to go further, saying that the thread was subconsciously harming our views of women!....PLEASE. I would have taken issue with your views, if you were a man, or an orangutan. That you are a woman, is totally irrelevant.

 

[bobs nob]

I'd be surprised if it were really one mod here folks. One mod taking the bullet, yes. One mod with no other pressure or support? That would be strange.

The larger point is that excuse doesn't hold water and the person putting it forth is smart enough to know it and if that makes me ACTUALLY angry, it's the intellectual fraud, not whether or not I can see pg-13 photos of women on a cycling site.

As for the mods, I am not enamored with the lot of them, they all seem to hide behind one another whenever more than one person questions them. There is a large segment of society that wants just that little bit of power over people who are in every other respect their equals. I've rebelled against them my whole life (with precious little to show for it). There isn't much to rebel against in a moderated forum, you either take it or leave it, but it's fun to point out their hypocrisy and phoniness at times. Banning is pointless, you just come back again under a new name.

 

[Anonymous]

What would SHE say

 

[nowhereman]

Some would think you are being quite rude and condescending right now

Touche!

 

[nowhereman]

Exactly what the Mods seem to be doing! HA HA HA HA!

 

[nowhereman]

Hello? Any moderators out there? Hello??? Think it's time to UNLOCK the BoB thread??? How many more testimonies are needed to understand that locking it was not the right move, and totally unnecessary? How many more people need to articulately present their cases against the kind of censorship the "lock" represents? Let people make their own choices to visit the thread or not. A lack of action to unlock, says more about CN than the "lock" did, in every way.

 

[nowhereman]

That the locked down BoB thread, and this thread, have spawned the "women modestly dressed" thread and the "Gnome" threads is truly priceless and hilarious! I almost choked laughing! Love you folks that are showing what fun it should be, through words and pictures. Props to you all!

 

[Barrus]

Jeez nowhereman, relax


Bob's ***:

As for the mods, I am not enamored with the lot of them, they all seem to hide behind one another whenever more than one person questions them. There is a large segment of society that wants just that little bit of power over people who are in every other respect their equals. I've rebelled against them my whole life (with precious little to show for it). There isn't much to rebel against in a moderated forum, you either take it or leave it, but it's fun to point out their hypocrisy and phoniness at times. Banning is pointless, you just come back again under a new name.

Look Bob, this might come as a shock to you, but all of us moderators are individualsand if a decision is made we in general need to stick behind one another, if only to maintain decorum, perhaps that is what you view as hiding behind one another. But to be honest in all generality we do agree on the decisions made by other mods, and if there are differences of opinion we do talk to one another, although these differences of opinion often only concern details and not the main gist of the decision. I also don't think it is far to call us powertripping egomaniacal people, we try to keep this forum a clean place and in general a friendly place which is accessible to the general public, including minors and women. We do this either because we are employed by CN, such as for example Susan and Laura, or because we enjoy this forum and try to maintain it in some way, such as for example Alpe, Martin and Terry.

 

[bobs nob]

Jeez nowhereman, relax


Bob's ***:


Look Bob, this might come as a shock to you, but all of us moderators are individualsand if a decision is made we in general need to stick behind one another, if only to maintain decorum, perhaps that is what you view as hiding behind one another. But to be honest in all generality we do agree on the decisions made by other mods, and if there are differences of opinion we do talk to one another, although these differences of opinion often only concern details and not the main gist of the decision. I also don't think it is far to call us powertripping egomaniacal people, we try to keep this forum a clean place and in general a friendly place which is accessible to the general public, including minors and women. We do this either because we are employed by CN, such as for example Susan and Laura, or because we enjoy this forum and try to maintain it in some way, such as for example Alpe, Martin and Terry.

Wow, speaking to one another in such condescension and with sarcasm is generally not acceptable from one forum member to another is pretty unacceptable. But somehow, it's OK for a moderator.

And for the coup de grace, you accuse me of calling you names I never did. A sanctionable offense.

It speaks for itself.

 

[bobs nob]

Jeez nowhereman, relax


Bob's ***:


Look Bob, this might come as a shock to you, but all of us moderators are individualsand if a decision is made we in general need to stick behind one another, if only to maintain decorum, perhaps that is what you view as hiding behind one another. But to be honest in all generality we do agree on the decisions made by other mods, and if there are differences of opinion we do talk to one another, although these differences of opinion often only concern details and not the main gist of the decision. I also don't think it is far to call us powertripping egomaniacal people, we try to keep this forum a clean place and in general a friendly place which is accessible to the general public, including minors and women. We do this either because we are employed by CN, such as for example Susan and Laura, or because we enjoy this forum and try to maintain it in some way, such as for example Alpe, Martin and Terry.

...and by the way, your response completely ignores my central point, the intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Barrus]

Wow, speaking to one another in such condescension and with sarcasm is generally not acceptable from one forum member to another is pretty unacceptable. But somehow, it's OK for a moderator.

And for the coup de grace, you accuse me of calling you names I never did. A sanctionable offense.

It speaks for itself.

The statement to nowhereman would in no way be sanctioned if it was made by any other poster.

And the accusation was clearly implied in your statement. Again this is nothing for which people have been sanctioned. But please do try again

 

[bobs nob]

The statement to nowhereman would in no way be sanctioned if it was made by any other poster.

And the accusation was clearly implied in your statement. Again this is nothing for which people have been sanctioned. But please do try again

In Bold - Baiting.

Never called you or any mod a name. Never even referred to mods, but that it's a natural element of humanity. Reading is fundamental.

And you still choose to ignore the point.

 

[nowhereman]

Jeez nowhereman, relax

Barrus, old buddy. I'm very relaxed. Please don't try that tactic on me, of depicting me as all hypered up, emotional, irrational etc. Yes, I know you didn't SAY that but that's what the suggestion to relax implies.
Listen, I used to contribute massively to that thread, back in the day. Then a chain of seriously stupid exchanges began between me and one of the more...., well, let's just say, one of the moderators. I withdrew all of my pictures because I was not about to be accused of being a "pornographer" Mind you, none of my pictures EVER went over the line, and often they were of some of the more beautiful female bike racers, who would like to be seen as true women, and not just skulls in a helmet, but still his accusations flew, til he power tripped me into suspension. I quit this forum for a while but have since returned. I rarely visited the BoB thread from then on, because I thought it had grown fairly lame, and repetitive. But now that it has been censored because of the outcry of a very vocal, and probably miniscule minority, it has become a completely different issue.
As I said above, many who had never contributed content to the thread have spoken out, very articulately, and passionately because this issue is about more than babes, it's now about hypocrisy, cowardice and censorship. And none of these new issues will be, or should be accepted in a forum, where many come to freely express themselves. Like I said, I'm relaxed, and I don't really care what you do. But competitive sites are popping up around you, all over the place. I stop by here much less than I used to. Things like this issue, and your handling of it, could make me and many others slow down their hits on this site. (800,000 plus hits on a thread you don't know how to handle, your solution: lock it down- good thinking folks!) But then again, maybe you don't really care about that. I'm just sayin'.

 

[Barrus]

Barrus, old buddy. I'm very relaxed. Please don't try that tactic on me, of depicting me as all hypered up, emotional, irrational etc. Yes, I know you didn't SAY that but that's what the suggestion to relax implies.
Listen, I used to contribute massively to that thread, back in the day. Then a chain of seriously stupid exchanges began between me and one of the more...., well, let's just say, one of the moderators. I withdrew all of my pictures because I was not about to be accused of being a "pornographer" Mind you, none of my pictures EVER went over the line, and often they were of some of the more beautiful female bike racers, who would like to be see as true women, and not just skulls in a helmet, but still his accusations flew, til he power tripped me into suspension. I quit this forum for a while but have since returned. I rarely visited the BoB thread from then on, because I thought it had grown fairly lame, and repetitive. But now that it has been censored because of the outcry of a very vocal, and probably miniscule minority, it has become a completely different issue.
As I said above, many who had never contributed content to the thread have spoken out, very articulately, and passionately because this issue is about more than babes, it's now about hypocrisy, cowardice and censorship. And none of these new issues will be, or should be accepted in a forum, where many come to freely express themselves. Like I said, I'm relaxed, and I don't really care what you do. But competitive sites are popping up around you, all over the place. I stop by here much less than I used to. Things like this issue, and your handling of it, could make me and many others slow down there hits on this site. (800,000 plus hits on a thread you don't know how to handle, your solution: lock it down- good thinking folks!) But then again, maybe you don't really care about that. I'm just sayin'.

Well, your post on the last page did seem a bit excessive and appeared as though you were quite wound up.

Also I do see your points, I do not agrre with them all, but I do see them. However a forum such as this does have some discretion considering how it is monitored, especially before one can call that it is really censorship. Something which I would consider censorship can probably be best explained by looking at roadbikereview and Coolhand over there, especially when one looks at the intention and the purpose of this forum, which is biking. When certain arguments are prohibited, which are of direct concern to cycling, I would sooner call it censorship than this particular instance

 

[Anonymous]

Jeez nowhereman, relax


Bob's ***:


Look Bob, this might come as a shock to you, but all of us moderators are individualsand if a decision is made we in general need to stick behind one another, if only to maintain decorum, perhaps that is what you view as hiding behind one another. But to be honest in all generality we do agree on the decisions made by other mods, and if there are differences of opinion we do talk to one another, although these differences of opinion often only concern details and not the main gist of the decision. I also don't think it is far to call us powertripping egomaniacal people, we try to keep this forum a clean place and in general a friendly place which is accessible to the general public, including minors and women. We do this either because we are employed by CN, such as for example Susan and Laura, or because we enjoy this forum and try to maintain it in some way, such as for example Alpe, Martin and Terry.

Which is why 180mm's "I closed it, but if another moderator wants to open it back up, I will leave it alone" bull**** makes me mad. He knew that when he closed the thread, but paraded his feigned objectivity out like we wouldn't see through it. That is why the only person who needs to open the thread (or not) is him. He imposed his social morality on all of us, and he is the only one responsible for it. The rest of you have nothing to do with this...well, except for the fact that I am pretty sure there are moderators who were offended but didn't have the guts to close it.

 

[hector5950]

hmm - perhaps so many complaints were received because it was going overboard and was offensive to some?

As for why not close the cafe and the multitude of other non-cycling threads - they arent offensive!!!!

Seriously - has no other thread ever been closed for being deemed not appropriate?

And if that were the reasoning given by the Mod for closing the thread, that would sit better with some. But the fact remains, it wasn't closed because it was offensive. It was closed because - according the the Mod who closed it, "the content had little or nothing to do with cycling." Ignoring the fact there are plenty of threads like that that do not get closed.

 

[Anonymous]

Which is why 180mm's "I closed it, but if another moderator wants to open it back up, I will leave it alone" bull**** makes me mad. He knew that when he closed the thread, but paraded his feigned objectivity out like we wouldn't see through it. That is why the only person who needs to open the thread (or not) is him. He imposed his social morality on all of us, and he is the only one responsible for it. The rest of you have nothing to do with this...well, except for the fact that I am pretty sure there are moderators who were offended but didn't have the guts to close it.

ditto

And if that were the reasoning given by the Mod for closing the thread, that would sit better with some. But the fact remains, it wasn't closed because it was offensive. It was closed because - according the the Mod who closed it, "the content had little or nothing to do with cycling." Ignoring the fact there are plenty of threads like that that do not get closed.

if the thread was that offensive it should have been shut months ago, you cant have a collective of mods leave a thread running for months and then one mod make a decision to close it. it should have been a collaborative decision between mods. and a full explanation should have been given.

Now we have as i said earlier a situation where the mods are all put in an awkward position as they have to be seen to back up another wether they agree with it or not.

 

[hector5950]

if the thread was that offensive it should have been shut months ago, you cant have a collective of mods leave a thread running for months and then one mod make a decision to close it. it should have been a collaborative decision between mods. and a full explanation should have been given.

Now we have as i said earlier a situation where the mods are all put in an awkward position as they have to be seen to back up another wether they agree with it or not.

I agree with you. I was trying to point out to Aussie that if the thread were closed for that reason (that she claimed) it would be semi-understandable, but that wasn't the reason given.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you. I was trying to point out to Aussie that if the thread were closed for that reason (that she claimed) it would be semi-understandable, but that wasn't the reason given.

Nor is her reasoning "semi-understandable."(not flaming you) Her reasoning is that of a person to freaking sensitive for the good of society. She has a problem, and instead of recognizing it, she seeks to alter the behavior of others because she can't see past her limited understanding and knowledge.

Like I said, she is using the same rationale as those who impose sharia law, she just thinks she is different.

 

[180mmCrank]

I get the fact that there are all sorts of things on the forum and they are not all to do with cycling but most of them are. And most of them fall within the bounds of common interest, humour etc and generally offend no one. Things that do offend people generally (but not always) get removed. The not always is more about lack of bandwidth by volunteer admins rather than some agenda, conspiracy or hypocracy etc

The question of what is in and out of bounds is a good one and is constantly under review - as you might expect. It is subjective - there will always be areas of disagreement. And if we were really interested in supressing expression we would delete this and all the associated threads - that's not what any of us are about.

Why it wasn't closed sooner? It was not considered an issue by all but it was by some - myself included. In general people felt it would run its course and drop off the radar. It didn't. So in the end it got closed. It was closed because it wasn't really about cycling and because it offended some.

I know this will not satisfy everyone I doubt that's achieveable with issues like this. We continue to be interested in people's views about what will enhance the forum and continue to try to strike a balance that works for everyone.


Terry