Badzilla, the disease of champions

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Dec 7, 2010
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Pretty f'ing funny that it took a snail to deliver the strongest, fastest rider in pro cycling. :D













And maybe that's no SRM that Froome Dawg keeps looking down at. :eek:

 
Jul 16, 2013
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chrisb said:
them two highlighted parts for me scream out to me. When he says "this tour", does that mean he has had TUE's for previous races?

and then he says he "hopefully" wont need any for this tour. Again, that means, in my opinion anyway is that he has had TUE's in the past, and more than likely he has one at the ready in case he fails a random test.

Its a bloody joke
The same article also quotes "a source" who said that no one on team SKY had a TUE "at this tour".
Its an interesting caveat to a straight question,i suspect nothing that comes out from SKY is accidental ;)
 
Nov 6, 2009
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Stradebianche said:
The same article also quotes "a source" who said that no one on team SKY had a TUE "at this tour".
Its an interesting caveat to a straight question,i suspect nothing that comes out from SKY is accidental ;)
its a real diplomatic answer isnt it. Like when politicians are asked questions and they bypass it completely but give minuscule details to let think they actually did answer it
 
Jul 15, 2013
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LS post states that julich said 'they' tested for it and found it after the tour of california, but isn't Froome on the record as stating that the blood passport testers found it after he asked them to check because he wasn't feeling well? Is this another discrepancy or does the 'they' refer to the passport testers?

Do the dates tally here too?

Sorry, don't have links to hand but i recall seeing a quote from froome (in the froome thread) about the passport testers discovering it first.

Edit: At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”


Also in Jan 2013 he said he took Biltricide
 
Jul 16, 2013
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bewildered said:
LS post states that julich said 'they' tested for it and found it after the tour of california, but isn't Froome on the record as stating that the blood passport testers found it after he asked them to check because he wasn't feeling well? Is this another discrepancy or does the 'they' refer to the passport testers?

Do the dates tally here too?

Sorry, don't have links to hand but i recall seeing a quote from froome (in the froome thread) about the passport testers discovering it first.

Edit: At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”


Also in Jan 2013 he said he took Biltricide
You can find these quotes in the following documentary made by the NOS (Dutch Sport broadcasting):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGVe73b_9U

You can find it around 11:00.
 
Some other things to add that were posted on the Froome and/or Gas6 thread:

1) Schistosomiasis affects hemoglobin but not red cell count (hematocrit). Antigens (released proteins) from the eggs are thought to react with the hemoglobin, inactivating it, with the result that individual red cells are less effective at oxygen binding and transport. The body’s immune system reacts with the antigens, which results in many of the symptoms.

2) The overall (hematological) result is reduced hemoglobin, and reduced hemoglobin/red cell ratio, which should be picked up by the biopassport. An article that was linked on one of those threads found an average reduction of hemoglobin of about 15%. To put this in perspective, the effect of such a reduction on oxygen transport would be like reducing hematocrit (composed of red cells with normal Hb levels) by the same 15%, say, from 45 to around 39. This might in turn reduce V02max roughly 10%, say, from 80 to 72 (this relationship is far more variable, though, and could be much more or less). Following treatment with praziquantel, one would expect an increase in hemoglobin to normal levels.

3) As I discussed at length on these other threads, IF Froome indeed has been chronically infected with the disease, as he seems to be claiming, the lowered hemoglobin should stimulate EPO synthesis and increase reticulocytes. Another effect that ought to be seen in the passport. As I speculated before, a chronic low level of these antigens could conceivably result in a more or less permanent elevation of EPO and retics. If he were then to be treated successfully, there might be a period when he had the advantage of this elevated EPO without ongoing inactivation of hemoglobin.

4) Should be noted that one of the posters, Patswana, claims to treat tropical diseases, and posted some useful information. Another poster, whose name I forget, said he had the disease, and was cured with a single treatment. Said the symptoms were relatively mild.
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Merckx index said:
Some other things to add that were posted on the Froome and/or Gas6 thread:

1) Schistosomiasis affects hemoglobin but not red cell count (hematocrit). Antigens (released proteins) from the eggs are thought to react with the hemoglobin, inactivating it, with the result that individual red cells are less effective at oxygen binding and transport. The body’s immune system reacts with the antigens, which results in many of the symptoms.

2) The overall (hematological) result is reduced hemoglobin, and reduced hemoglobin/red cell ratio, which should be picked up by the biopassport. Following treatment with praziquantel, one would expect an increase in hemoglobin to normal levels.

3) As I discussed at length on these other threads, IF Froome indeed has been chronically infected with the disease, as he seems to be claiming, the lowered hemoglobin should stimulate EPO synthesis and increase reticulocytes. Another effect that ought to be seen in the passport. As I speculated before, a chronic low level of these antigens could conceivably result in a more or less permanent elevation of EPO and retics. If he were then to be treated successfully, there might be a period when he had the advantage of this elevated EPO without ongoing inactivation of hemoglobin.

4) Should be noted that one of the posters, Patswana, claims to treat tropical diseases, and posted some useful information. Another poster, whose name I forget, said he had the disease, and was cured with a single treatment. Said the symptoms were relatively mild.
This is starting to get really interesting. Inconsistencies between what Froome or Julich or Brailsford say are one thing, but this goes one step further. The points mentioned above are indications that it might be possible for Froome to manipulate his biopassport and might also explain his higher suscebtibility for EPO. It could also explain why it is exactly Froome who has made such an incredible leap in his performance.
 
Granville57 said:
Pretty f'ing funny that it took a snail to deliver the strongest, fastest rider in pro cycling. :D















And maybe that's no SRM that Froome Dawg keeps looking down at. :eek:

Ought to setup a travel business offering cyclists trips to the deep Africa:

- Train on Kilimanjaro
- No Big Macs
- Visit a mine
- Parasites guaranteed
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
Ought to setup a travel business offering cyclists trips to the deep Africa:

- Train on Kilimanjaro
- No Big Macs
- Visit a mine
- Parasites guaranteed
The only biological prerequisite is bad motor control. All the rest is trainable.
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Merckx index said:
Some other things to add that were posted on the Froome and/or Gas6 thread:

1) Schistosomiasis affects hemoglobin but not red cell count (hematocrit). Antigens (released proteins) from the eggs are thought to react with the hemoglobin, inactivating it, with the result that individual red cells are less effective at oxygen binding and transport. The body’s immune system reacts with the antigens, which results in many of the symptoms.

2) The overall (hematological) result is reduced hemoglobin, and reduced hemoglobin/red cell ratio, which should be picked up by the biopassport. An article that was linked on one of those threads found a reduction of hemoglobin of about 15%. To put this in perspective, the effect of such a reduction on oxygen transport would be like reducing hematocrit (composed of red cells with normal Hb levels) by the same 15%, say, from 45 to around 39. This might in turn reduce V02max roughly 10%, say, from 80 to 72. Following treatment with praziquantel, one would expect an increase in hemoglobin to normal levels.

3) As I discussed at length on these other threads, IF Froome indeed has been chronically infected with the disease, as he seems to be claiming, the lowered hemoglobin should stimulate EPO synthesis and increase reticulocytes. Another effect that ought to be seen in the passport. As I speculated before, a chronic low level of these antigens could conceivably result in a more or less permanent elevation of EPO and retics. If he were then to be treated successfully, there might be a period when he had the advantage of this elevated EPO without ongoing inactivation of hemoglobin.

4) Should be noted that one of the posters, Patswana, claims to treat tropical diseases, and posted some useful information. Another poster, whose name I forget, said he had the disease, and was cured with a single treatment. Said the symptoms were relatively mild.
Point number 3 is really interesting but if i understand correctly would need a low level of active parasites in the body to work ?
Given what we know it seems to be relatively easy to rid the body of this thing altogether at first or second treatment.
If i'm thinking correctly the theory would need someone to be either reinfected or for the disease to be controlled with a lower dose of meds that alleviate symptoms but leave a low level of antigens?
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
but Jahudor, how much are your prepared to pay for such a package, if we can correct the poor motor control as well?
Haha - I was just refering to Froome whose training methods might very well fit in with your training program (although you might consider adding 'sleeping on volcanos'). Froome isn't exactly known for his elegant style on the bike...
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Stradebianche said:
Point number 3 is really interesting but if i understand correctly would need a low level of active parasites in the body to work ?
Given what we know it seems to be relatively easy to rid the body of this thing altogether at first or second treatment.
If i'm thinking correctly the theory would need someone to be either reinfected or for the disease to be controlled with a lower dose of meds that alleviate symptoms but leave a low level of antigens?
Maybe I am speaking nonsense, but is it possible to somehow manipulate these antigens under the nice coverstory that there are parasites at work, which know and then recur? Is it possible to repeat the mentioned cycle in blood values manually? I mean checking for parasites is not part of the doping controls of course.
 
Jahudor said:
Haha - I was just refering to Froome whose training methods might very well fit in with your training program (although you might consider adding 'sleeping on volcanos'). Froome isn't exactly known for his elegant style on the bike...
I would say we have a handful (or so) of top riders who look awful on a bike currently. None of them would likely be any good if we took the drugs away.

Re bolded part:



Just like Etna, but Kilmanjaro really is more spectacular imo.
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Jahudor said:
Maybe I am speaking nonsense, but is it possible to somehow manipulate these antigens under the nice coverstory that there are parasites at work, which know and then recur? Is it possible to repeat the mentioned cycle in blood values manually? I mean checking for parasites is not part of the doping controls of course.
I don't know,maybe Patswana has a view on this?
I was thinking of manipulation of the disease rather than the antigens themselves.
Maybe we need a haemotologist !
 
Jul 16, 2013
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Stradebianche said:
I don't know,maybe Patawan has a view on this?
I was thinking of manipulation of the disease rather than the antigens themselves.
Maybe we need a haemotologist !
Of course manipulation of the disease is also a possibility. Manipulation of blood values under the cover of a disease however gives you lots of extra opportunities. If Froome is never tested for the disease by any independent organization, Sky can easily intensify the 'treatment' (higher doses, more often), because the disease 'has worsened'. But indeed you are right we need someone who knows more about these matters. For all I know it can be rubbish what I just said.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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grahamshortt said:
Here's Michelle Cound posting on the velorooms forum in October 2012 http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=1314.msg59927#msg59927 saying that the third treatment was with Prazitel after "two courses of praziquantel in the past but the parasites kept coming back"
Interesting. What is the difference between Praziquantel and Prazitel. This site says:

Praziquantel was initially (and still is) marketed by Bayer under the name Biltricide for human use and under the name Droncit for veterinary use. A number of other brands are now available with various names in different countries, such as Distocide (Shin Poong, EIPICO), Bilharzid (Pharco, Egypt), and Prazitel (Cosmos, Kenya)
???

Edit:
OK, this site describes Prazitel Plus as a drug for dogs:
A pale yellow pork flavoured tablet with a cross breakline on one side containing 50mg praziquantel, 144mg pyrantel embonate and 150mg febantel.
 
Jul 16, 2013
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bewildered said:
LS post states that julich said 'they' tested for it and found it after the tour of california, but isn't Froome on the record as stating that the blood passport testers found it after he asked them to check because he wasn't feeling well? Is this another discrepancy or does the 'they' refer to the passport testers?

Do the dates tally here too?

Sorry, don't have links to hand but i recall seeing a quote from froome (in the froome thread) about the passport testers discovering it first.

Edit: At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”


Also in Jan 2013 he said he took Biltricide
and here is the alternative:

Although Julich immediately saw Froome’s potential, he was puzzled by his inconsistency. But after examining the rider’s records and training journals, he discovered that Froome had suffered from the rare parasite Bilharzia.

"In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again." The Bilharzia has returned on occasion, but Julich and Froome can now immediately identify the symptoms.

So that sounds like two different events,an initial diagnosis in Africa and a relapse or another infection in 2011.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Stradebianche said:
and here is the alternative:

Although Julich immediately saw Froome’s potential, he was puzzled by his inconsistency. But after examining the rider’s records and training journals, he discovered that Froome had suffered from the rare parasite Bilharzia.

"In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again." The Bilharzia has returned on occasion, but Julich and Froome can now immediately identify the symptoms.
Froome's and Julich's stories are radically different. Julich specifically says 'we tested for Bilharzia' whereas Froome says he asked the UCI doctors 'find out what's wrong with me' and they said 'you've got this parasite.' The consistency between their stories is that they both raise Bilharzia as evidence of poor performance. I.e. that element of the story is deliberate, and the important part of it - but they don't have the minor elements of the lie completely straight.
 
Jul 15, 2013
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Another from Michelle Cound from that velorooms link:-

http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=1314.msg59900#msg59900

Quote from: Michelle on October 18, 2012, 13:06

I don't know where you got that rubbish about bilharzia treatment being comparable to chemo?!?
I was with Chris when he took the 7-day (NOT 6 week) course of medication (immediately following Criterium International) & while there was some mild nausea & fatigue it certainly wasn't anything like a chemo treatment. He obviously wasn't able to ride while taking the medication.
And yes, he definitely has been struggling with bilharzia... he is due for another test to see if it's cleared his system.

Really... get your facts straight before making accusations like that... pathetic.
 
Nov 27, 2012
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grahamshortt said:
Here's Michelle Cound posting on the velorooms forum in October 2012 http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=1314.msg59927#msg59927 saying that the third treatment was with Prazitel after "two courses of praziquantel in the past but the parasites kept coming back"
Thanks for the link. MC’s post on Oct. 18, 2012 confirms Froome had 3 separate treatments of praziquantel up to that time. She says he took a course of Prazitel at the end of March 2012 plus two other prior courses, which I am assuming are the reported June 2011 treatment and the initial treatment in Dec 2010. The drug Prazitel is similar to Biltricide as both contain praziquantel, but they are manufactured by different pharmaceutical companies. Prazitel is made by Cosmos, a Kenyan drug company. Biltricide is made by Bayer, a German drug company. Froome said he took Biltricide for his Jan 2013 treatment.

It has been over 3 ½ years since Froome was diagnosed with schistosomiasis. Why is he still taking treatments? With proper care, he should have completely recovered from the parasitical disease ages ago. Are his doctors misdiagnosing his treatment? Does he have some sort of super freaky new worm species that is drug-resistant?? Will his badzilla be miraculously cured when he goes for his next check up (followed by a quick return to his pre 2011 form)? It’s all very strange…
.
 
Jul 15, 2013
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And another from the article Michelle is complaining about:-

http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=1314.msg59914#msg59914

Doctors initially diagnosed mononucleosis, but the treatments failed. It was only after Froome underwent extensive blood screening following his switch to Sky in 2010 that the parasitic infection was caught and he was prescribed an eye-wateringly strong treatment, similar to chemotherapy.

Inconsistent with the Passport testers story?
 

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