Badzilla, the disease of champions

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Mar 18, 2009
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I struggle with the idea that children from a rich Kenyan family would get badzilla and not know about it (Froome claims his brothers have had it too) - that they would be so completely clueless about a disease ranked second only to malaria in terms of its health impact on Africa.

But wealth doesn't confer intelligence, of course ;)
 
Oct 21, 2012
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Were the Froome's rich? Just because they are a white African family doesn't automatically mean they own a huge ranch with 50 people working for them.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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King Boonen said:
Well... err... At least they didn't own it... I think...

Rich enough to send a son to Rugby school - point is you'd imagine them to be aware of badzilla, not like its some unknown disease with a few scattered cases, after all
 
bianchigirl said:
Rich enough to send a son to Rugby school - point is you'd imagine them to be aware of badzilla, not like its some unknown disease with a few scattered cases, after all

Everyone in Africa is aware of it, just like they are all aware of Malaria (as is the whole of the Indian sub-continent and anywhere else it is present).

The thing is you don't give prophylaxis treatment of Bilharzia and the worms do not reproduce in the human host. this means you need to specifically look for the disease. Symptoms include:

(from wiki)

Abdominal pain
Cough
Diarrhea
Eosinophilia — extremely high eosinophil granulocyte (white blood cell) count.
Fever
Fatigue
Hepatosplenomegaly — the enlargement of both the liver and the spleen.

Most of which can be seen with any run of the mill infection. It is possible for you to be infected for years and not realise it. It is also not something that they do routine check-ups for.

Acute infections are rare, so diagnosis is harder.
 
Nov 27, 2012
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I’m amazed at how stupid some professional athletes are when it comes to their health. Froome is no exception. He was feeling unwell for at least a year before asking the UCI doctor to look for a cause for his illness. He had bilharzia as a child. I wouldn’t be surprised if his Nairobi school also ran a bilharzia education program. So he would have been familiar with the disease. Froome thinks he may have been infected while on a fishing trip with his brother in Kenya. He goes fishing in probably a high risk infection area, has symptoms of the disease for almost a year, and yet he did not have himself immediately tested for badzilla. It suggests to me that 1) Froome is an idiot to become re-infected and not realize it, and 2) maybe he was not that sick at all. On November 27, 2010 Froome rode the Coronation Double Century, a 200 km fun race in SA. His team Daikin apparently smashed the course record and beat the 2nd place team by 11 minutes. Doesn’t sound that sick to me. When I read media reports justifying Froome’s lack of development and results pre Vuelta 2011 because of a ‘mysterious exhaustion and sickness’ all I see is Sky’s PR at work.
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May 26, 2009
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bianchigirl said:
Rich enough to send a son to Rugby school - point is you'd imagine them to be aware of badzilla, not like its some unknown disease with a few scattered cases, after all

I read that both of Froome's brothers went to Rugby. So family Froome aren't some poor people out in the sticks.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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it seems david walsh knows the bilharzia story is BS.
kimmage called it for what it was on irish radio (second captains podcast) recently in response to walsh's piece in the ST ("why i believe in froome"), and walsh never responded to kimmage.

http://www.thescore.ie/david-walsh-paul-kimmage-froome-1008211-Jul2013/

“Been asked by Irish radio stations and people on twitter if I would like to respond to criticism on Irish Times podcast,” he tweeted today. ” No I wouldn’t.”
wise choice by walsh
 
Hey guys..I took mudbone's timeline and tried to add most of the relevant quotes I found in this thread. I marked those not said by Froome himself.

2009 - Diagnosis (Possible mix-up)

"Back at...I think it was the end of 2009 actually...I was diagnosed for the first time with bilharzia" (Dec '12)

"You don't realize it is bilharzia unless you go for that specific test -- which I was lucky enough to detect at the end of 2009" (Dec '12)

("Since then I've...every 6 months I go for another check, and if there's any sign of it in the system then I'll just repeat the treatment" (Dec'12))

2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)

"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec/End of 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

"At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…” ('13)

May 2011 - Another diagnosis

"In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again." - Julich (Jul '12)

June 2011 - Feeling bad

"Yes, it's going well but I've been a bit unlucky with my health recently, picking up a chest infection which seems to be lingering. No regrets, though. I've had some great days and some not so great." (June '11)

July 2011 - Treatment

"I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training" (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

"I was with Chris when he took the 7-day (NOT 6 week) course of medication (immediately following Criterium International) & while there was some mild nausea & fatigue it certainly wasn't anything like a chemo treatment." - Cound (Oct '12)

"He took it at the end of March after Criterium International, he had also taken two courses of praziquantel in the past but the parasites kept coming back. He was diagnosed back in 2010 if I remember correctly." - Cound (Oct '12)

January 2013 - Check-Up and Treatment

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

"He returns every six months to Africa for a course of treatment – the last was in January and the next will be straight after the Tour." - The Independent (June '13)

"In terms of that illness, I actually went for a check 10 days ago and found out that I did have to repeat the treatment again. It means these big pills that basically poison you and kill everything in your stomach and I took that in the last week. I am feeling much better now and hopefully I am in the clear for another six months or so." (Jan '13)
 
zlev11 said:
i'm no doctor, but what do red blood cells have to do with his immune system? white blood cells are what make up the immune system. or did he mean white blood cells? what the hell?

i only noticed this because i was once diagnosed with a lowered immune system do to a low WBC count.
Good catch!!!!!!

The more they talk, the more chances for them to make contradictory statements.
Specially from a country bumpkin like Froome.
 
BYOP88 said:
patswana posted some interesting info in one of the may threads regarding, Badzilla. They should be added here if they aren;t already.

It would be nice if patswana shows up again, I would like to ask him for instance:

1-What kind of corticoids are used during the treatment?

2-How long the corticoids treatment usually last?

3-Are steroids, specially long ester, used to treat some of the therapy
side-effects?

4-How long can you be infected without showing any symptom?
 
King Boonen said:
That doesn't make sense on any level.

Not gonna defend the UCI, but that's just how it is. Blood passport has zero transparency. But obviously a passport violation is going to be equal to a doping violation which is equal to a positive.
 
Stradebianche said:
The same article also quotes "a source" who said that no one on team SKY had a TUE "at this tour".
Its an interesting caveat to a straight question,i suspect nothing that comes out from SKY is accidental ;)

The questions SKY won't answer are:

During the last 3 years, who had TUEs? How long lasted every TUE?
And last, but not least, what kind of medication were those TUEs?

For the sake of transparency, they should disclose it, but they will not.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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bianchigirl said:
I struggle with the idea that children from a rich Kenyan family would get badzilla and not know about it (Froome claims his brothers have had it too) - that they would be so completely clueless about a disease ranked second only to malaria in terms of its health impact on Africa.

But wealth doesn't confer intelligence, of course ;)

northstar said:
I’m amazed at how stupid some professional athletes are when it comes to their health. Froome is no exception. He was feeling unwell for at least a year before asking the UCI doctor to look for a cause for his illness. . . .
.

I don't find it amazing at all. Go to your docs office, and tell him - "yeah, I just don't feel all that motivated, not really feeling so great, ya know?" Doc's gonna say "take two aspirin and call me in the morning."

He could have been at least somewhat asymptomatic - symptoms being mild or nonexistent - just kinda tired. Which most people would put down to need to cut back the exercise routine. Docs too. Also - he's traveling international. Italian docs don't know stuff that affects American patients - happens all the time - ditto English docs in India - used to dealing with Indian subcontinent ailments - little Euro junk is off their radar. Ask WHO (world health org)- they'll validate this. When I traveled a lot I used to get updates from them on docs in the regions I was going to who would be familiar with stuff that might impact Americans. I would'nt expect a Brit doc to look for Lyme disease. Amof - I wouldn't expect an Arizona doc to look for it either.

There could be, and most likely are, more valid reasons to just go with the public statements about the bilharzia. Docs ain't gods, ya know, in spite of what they want you to believe.

All this looking for reasons and ways to disprove the public statements - is looking too hard, afaic. Violates Occam's razor. Well - if ya got time enough on yer hands, I guess it's yer time.
 
Froomstrong said:
Is it really necessary to go to Africa to get it treated?
"He returns every six months to Africa for a course of treatment"


As people who live in Europe could be affected while in Africa, wouldn't it be possible to be treated in Europe. I would guess that a city like London would be have a few doses in stock.

Of course it is, that is part of the trick. It is much more difficult to get tested by WADA or UCI if you are in the middle of Kenya, that if you are somewhere in Europe.
 
Cycle Chic said:
In this Interview for Sportsvibe TV which was done in December 2012 he says it was diagnosed END OF 2009. Talks quite a bit about the disease at 3mins 15seconds. Again reiterates it 'feeds on red blood cells' interesting that he wants this known...and also again states he gets treatment every 6 months and its ongoing treatment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZUBtcN2Gk

Good finding!!!!!!!!!

He is not really a good liar.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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sniper said:
it seems david walsh knows the bilharzia story is BS.
kimmage called it for what it was on irish radio (second captains podcast) recently in response to walsh's piece in the ST ("why i believe in froome"), and walsh never responded to kimmage.

http://www.thescore.ie/david-walsh-paul-kimmage-froome-1008211-Jul2013/

wise choice by walsh

I'm sure Walsh wants to dish the argument out on the public and throw away a 25/30 year friendship in the process.

It's not a case that he doesn't feel he has faith in his argument.
 
Oct 21, 2012
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victorschipolrijk said:
4-How long can you be infected without showing any symptom?

How long was the period? 1 year or 18 months before he was diagnosed? He would have shown some of these symptoms if it was that long:


Abdominal pain
Cough
Diarrhoea
Eosinophilia (extremely high white blood cell count)
Fever
Fatigue
Hepatosplenomegaly (the enlargement of the liver and the spleen)
Genital sores
Skin symptoms (itching and skin diseases)
Central nervous system lesions
Colonic polyposis (rectal bleeding with bloody diarrhoea)
Portal hypertension (increased blood pressure in the pulmonary artery)
Cystitis and ureteritis with hematuria (infection of the urinal tract, inflammation of the ureter, blood in urine)
Glomerulonephritis (inflammation of the blood vessels within the kidneys)
 
Alphabet said:
How long was the period? 1 year or 18 months before he was diagnosed? He would have shown some of these symptoms if it was that long:


Abdominal pain
Cough
Diarrhoea
Eosinophilia (extremely high white blood cell count)
Fever
Fatigue
Hepatosplenomegaly (the enlargement of the liver and the spleen)
Genital sores
Skin symptoms (itching and skin diseases)
Central nervous system lesions
Colonic polyposis (rectal bleeding with bloody diarrhoea)
Portal hypertension (increased blood pressure in the pulmonary artery)
Cystitis and ureteritis with hematuria (infection of the urinal tract, inflammation of the ureter, blood in urine)
Glomerulonephritis (inflammation of the blood vessels within the kidneys)

Fairly routine symptoms. If I had those I wouldn't suspect anything. I'd just carry on riding up mountains sideways :rolleyes: