Teams & Riders Bahrain

[zlev11]

you guys gotta be kidding me, the way Bahrain rode Eneco was not normal. they had two riders in the race that could do whatever they wanted, follow any attack, and they just swapped them around two stages in a row. they absolutely toyed with the race. that was nothing like Jumbo riding the Tour in a train and losing the race. WVA is absurd, but he is one guy. Bahrain have about seven of them all at once.

and then Colbrelli is the only guy who can hold Evenpoels wheel in a super hilly race. yeah right. who cares about WVA, we haven't seen anything like this since Gewiss.

Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.

 

[SafeBet]

you guys gotta be kidding me, the way Bahrain rode Eneco was not normal.

I don't think anybody is arguing it was.
Meanwhile some are arguing the way Jumbo has dominated races for the past x years is way more believable. Well it is not. We just got used to it. And if Bahrain keeps this up for a few years I'm pretty sure we'll do the same with them.

 

[Cookster15]

Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.

Mader is 24 and turned pro two years ago. Not every pro can be like Pogacar at 20. Of course he's climbing like never before. I was climbing like never before at 24 compared to just the year earlier. Yes it could be doping but at that age the mostly likely reason is natural progression.

Bernal obviously not at his best e.g. Covid.

Haig led a team for the first time in his career after being called up for Landa. Haig last finished the Vuelta in 2018 - finishing 19th on GC. That was supporting the man himself - AV. As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader. Ask WvA who finished 19th and 20th in the last two TdFs.

There are more suspicious riders at Bahrain than Haig and Mader

 

[Netserk]

Wasn't 2019 something van Aert's first full year in road racing and with a first Tour cut short due to a somewhat nasty crash? I think you are cherry picking specific race types and timelines to suit your purpose and I do not think they are comparable. Froome showed generally no major indications of having a major engine and his climbing, of any sort, was somewhat shyte and inconsistent before the Vuelta, then it went to world beating, coming in second to a a doper. So I think it is a misleading comparison Netserk, and in that way, not a reasonable comparison.

As for the second paragraph, I would generally agree. I don't think Bahrain is more transformational than other teams that appear to have gone full R. It is just their turn this year and obvious is obvious.

I didn't pick it, and I used Froome merely to illustrate that Van Aert's transformation was indeed shocking and out of nowhere. I responded to this post (my emphasis):

wout has pedigree.

three world cross championships.

and as soon as he started on the road, he showed he could win sprints, TTs and climb fairly well. You ever watch Freddy Maertens in 1976-77?

colbrelli is no WVA.

Obviously, post lockdowns wasn't as soon as Van Aert started on the road, and I am yet to see anyone point to any performances of him before that which indicate that he would suddenly be able to climb mountains at an elite level. It's in the Froome/Wiggins/Thomas level of absurdity.

Colbrelli on the other hand has always been good on punchy hills. He has clearly stepped up and can sustain more watts now, but at the same time his sprint is far worse. Unlike Van Aert who can do almost everything almost all the time.

 

[samhocking]

Wout finished 19th on Col de la Loze

Exactly, 7 minutes down isn't winning your first HC stage is it.

 

[Netserk]

you guys gotta be kidding me, the way Bahrain rode Eneco was not normal. they had two riders in the race that could do whatever they wanted, follow any attack, and they just swapped them around two stages in a row. they absolutely toyed with the race. that was nothing like Jumbo riding the Tour in a train and losing the race. WVA is absurd, but he is one guy. Bahrain have about seven of them all at once.

and then Colbrelli is the only guy who can hold Evenpoels wheel in a super hilly race. yeah right. who cares about WVA, we haven't seen anything like this since Gewiss.

Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.

A more like for like comparison with BeNeLux Tour would be Dauphiné after the lockdowns. The whole Jumbo team could do whatever they wanted there, and they were definitely as ridiculous as Bahrain.

 

[proffate]

for amphetimines? Cortisteroids?

1977 was well within the times of blood transfusions and anabolic steroids

 

[zlev11]

Mader is 24 and turned pro two years ago. Not every pro can be like Pogacar at 20. Of course he's climbing like never before. I was climbing like never before at 24 compared to just the year earlier. Yes it could be doping but at that age the mostly likely reason is natural progression.

Bernal obviously not at his best e.g. Covid.

Haig led a team for the first time in his career after being called up for Landa. Haig last finished the Vuelta in 2018 - finishing 19th on GC. That was supporting the man himself - AV. As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader. Ask WvA who finished 19th and 20th in the last two TdFs.

There are more suspicious riders at Bahrain than Haig and Mader

Mader is the most believable one for sure, but he was riding in support of Haig. Later in your post you write "As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader" in reference to Haig's previous Vuelta. Use your own logic and apply it to Mader now. He crushed Bernal.

Bernal was not at his best, but he still did 6.5 w/kg on Collada Llomena on stage 17. He couldn't have been too far off.

There's no doubt that Haig is talented, but he took a huge step up this year, with everyone else on the Bahrain team. Of course there are more suspicious riders on Bahrain than Haig and Mader, I have listed them in this thread already, but they do have to be mentioned as well.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Mader is the most believable one for sure, but he was riding in support of Haig. Later in your post you write "As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader" in reference to Haig's previous Vuelta. Use your own logic and apply it to Mader now. He crushed Bernal.

Bernal was not at his best, but he still did 6.5 w/kg on Collada Llomena on stage 17. He couldn't have been too far off.

There's no doubt that Haig is talented, but he took a huge step up this year, with everyone else on the Bahrain team. Of course there are more suspicious riders on Bahrain than Haig and Mader, I have listed them in this thread already, but they do have to be mentioned as well.

Meh, I also think something fishy is going on at Bahrain but people need to stop rewriting history not even a month after the race is over.
Bernal had a big time gap to the two Vuelta guys because Yates and him tried to create a split on stage 20 and when it worked, Bernal was on the wrong side of it so he obviously didn't help Lopez and lost his GC positions (which he didn't care about).
Outside stage 20 there was a single stage where Mäder put seconds into Bernal and that was 3 seconds on stage 9. Apart from that Bernal was ahead on every other stage. Haig as well took time out of Bernal 2-3 times in the first two weeks but the main reason he finished ahead of him was being gifted his GC position due to a breakaway and because of stage 20.

While it was still a strong performance by Haig and Mäder the reason they end up on 3rd and 5th is because of other teams priorities, tactics and Bahrain's strong support. Just by individual strength they probably finish 6th and 7th behind Roglic, Mas, Lopez, Bernal and Yates (maybe even Kuss).

Bahrain is dodgy but not everything is Padun, Mohoric, Colbrelli dodgy. Interesting for the overall picture - yes. But I can count 10 more GC suspicious guys from the last two years than what Haig and Mäder did in this Vuelta.

 

[zlev11]

While yes, it's fair to say that Bernal was "caught" in the Lopez group, who was pulling the front group away from them? Haig and Mader, with help from Padun later on. nobody else took a pull in that group for over 50km.

 

[Bonimenier]

While yes, it's fair to say that Bernal was "caught" in the Lopez group, who was pulling the front group away from them? Haig and Mader, with help from Padun later on. nobody else took a pull in that group for over 50km.

I don't know if that says a lot. In the chasing group they were nearly standing still. One rider even stood still completely.

 

[Ripper]

This quote from the cyclingnews feed on the World championships about Colbrelli cracks me up "The Italian is just in ludicrous form this year"

 

[F_Cance]

ah well, Bahrain juice turning the most random riders into winners, making them outclimb S. Yates

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Another top race with an asterix incoming

 

[F_Cance]

dude really acting like he won this honestly

 

[Cookster15]

Uh oh. Break out the popcorn.

 

[DaLong]

So does Colbrelli also have to give his large cobblestone trophy to Vermeersch in 3 to 4 years time?

 

[BlueRoads]

I know Colbrelli's not the only juiced rider and I know I cheered for Alaphilippe when he won last week... but damn, this still doesn't feel right. On the other hand he wasn't the strongest in the race in my opinion, he wheelsucked quite a bit.

 

[Ripper]

Well, Cyclingnews did state "The Italian is just in ludicrous form this year"

 

[Ripper]

I know Colbrelli's not the only juiced rider and I know I cheered for Alaphilippe when he won last week... but damn, this still doesn't feel right. On the other hand he wasn't the strongest in the race in my opinion, he wheelsucked quite a bit.

It's not like vdPoel isn't as juiced as you can get

 

[Mayomaniac]

I've been really sceptical of Colbrelli's climbing performances this year, but this is a more classic Colbrelli performance. The guy has always been at his best when the weather is horrible. He also just rode his first Roubaix and won the whole thing with rain, terrible weather and no previous experience on the Roubaix cobbles.
This one is far more believable than his climbing at the Italian NC and the Tour de France (remember the Tignes stage).

 

[Ripper]

I've been really sceptical of Colbrelli's climbing performances this year, but this is a more classic Colbrelli performance. The guy has always been at his best when the weather is horrible. He also just rode his first Roubaix and won the whole thing with rain, terrible weather and no previous experience on the Roubaix cobbles.
This one is far more believable than his climbing at the Italian NC and the Tour de France (remember the Tignes stage).

Agree.

Also, he saw all the posts saying he was not as alien as van der Poel and van Aert and said "suck it!"

 

[BlueRoads]

I've been really sceptical of Colbrelli's climbing performances this year, but this is a more classic Colbrelli performance. The guy has always been at his best when the weather is horrible. He also just rode his first Roubaix and won the whole thing with rain, terrible weather and no previous experience on the Roubaix cobbles.
This one is far more believable than his climbing at the Italian NC and the Tour de France (remember the Tignes stage).

I agree, this is not even unbelievable. I just can't enjoy the win because of the rest of the season of the whole team.
He wasn't the only one I didn't cheer for in this race. Maybe I should really quit watching cycling. sigh

 

[Pirazziattacks]

I've been really sceptical of Colbrelli's climbing performances this year, but this is a more classic Colbrelli performance. The guy has always been at his best when the weather is horrible. He also just rode his first Roubaix and won the whole thing with rain, terrible weather and no previous experience on the Roubaix cobbles.
This one is far more believable than his climbing at the Italian NC and the Tour de France (remember the Tignes stage).

For me the only believable thing about Colbrelli's season has been his bunch sprinting declining, although that might have more to do with team support. This win combined with his sudden emergence as a climber is truly hilarious.

 

[zlev11]

bahahahaha