Baron Coe, cleans?

[the sceptic]

Still has one of the fastest 800m times ever.

Linked to Conconi and a suspected blood doper?

Seems like he is going to be the next IAAF president and he is already well versed in omerta speak.

'This is not in every country of the world - there are 213 federations. But you do have to say a disproportionate amount of the reputational damage is in a relatively small number of countries, and I think we have to recognise this.

'They are very serious allegations. The very fact that the allegations are in the public domain means that they are serious.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Race Radio talks about him being a Conconi customer. I wanted to learn more, but google only links to RR's tweets and posts.

I don't doubt it. The man set WRs like setting the thermostat. His training load is well documented and well understood as incredibly intense, and not replicable by "normal" runners.

That and the golden boy narrative woven against Ovett, it is all too good to be true.

 

[sniper]

i say we expose this guy for the fraud he is in the next coupla pages. any sports reporter with time on their hands and/or looking for a scoop should be interested in the Conconi link.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I have hated this man for 30 years now, nothing would bring me greater pleasure than seeing him brought down for what he really is.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

There would be an interesting moral angle if Lord Seb was outed for blood-doping as EPO wasn't invented and transfusions weren't banned during his heyday.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

His training load is well documented and well understood as incredibly intense, and not replicable by "normal" runners.

A guy I knew vaguely threw rowing was at uni with Seb and he says that his actual training was not as usually described. It was apparently much more conventional, involving far more "slow" running than implied by the "50 miles a week" description. Father and Son simply didn't include the slower paced stuff in their tally of training.

Re training not being replicable, if PEDs had never been invented then someone would still be the best and the chances are that only they could do their own most intense training sessions, so I'm not sure this really tells us much. John Walker, albeit slightly past his best but still no mug, once "spied" on an Ovett speed training session and then tried to do it himself, without success. Does this mean Ovett was doping? (I've followed athletics for donkeys years and there has never been so much as a squeak about Ovett doping.)

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

i say we expose this guy for the fraud he is in the next coupla pages. any sports reporter with time on their hands and/or looking for a scoop should be interested in the Conconi link.

Given that Coe was a Tory MP for 5 years and William Hague's bagman for a few years during the period when the Tories were really unpopular, I'd have thought if the tabloids were going to dig, they'd have dug by now, but maybe they were only looking for the more typical failings of political types.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

i say we expose this guy for the fraud he is in the next coupla pages. any sports reporter with time on their hands and/or looking for a scoop should be interested in the Conconi link.

This is the clinic at its best. Crowdsourced justice.

 

[sniper]

This is the clinic at its best. Crowdsourced justice.

there's been some discussion on Seb Coe and blooddoping on the Letsrun forum:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1801762
no new revelations there, though, as far as i can tell.

edit: more and better discussion here:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=95187&st=120

Agreed that the introduction of EPO (early 90s) post-dates Coe's athletics career (early 80s)

But Conconi wasn't only an early adaptor to EPO. He was also an early adaptor to blood transfusions. When? Early 80s...

At that time blood transfusions weren't banned but no one thought they were ethical

I remember Coe getting beaten and blaming the fact he had raced too soon after training at altitude. (No fully fit or properly prepared athlete ever lost a race).

 

[frenchfry]

Why "cleans" and not "clean"? Is this country specific? An inside joke? Clinic code?

Curious minds want to know

 

[oldcrank]

This is the clinic at its best. Crowdsourced justice.

Yes, my friend, also known as a good ole fashion lynchin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

 

[More Strides than Rides]

there's been some discussion on Seb Coe and blooddoping on the Letsrun forum:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1801762
no new revelations there, though, as far as i can tell.

edit: more and better discussion here:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=95187&st=120

Haha, I was the one to bump that up. No compelling facts, but instead the circumstances of his career: dad's qualifications as a doctor and research, no ban on BBing, and his toxoplasmosis.

 

[Benotti69]

This is the clinic at its best. Crowdsourced justice.

Yes, my friend, also known as a good ole fashion lynchin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

Haha, I was the one to bump that up. No compelling facts, but instead the circumstances of his career: dad's qualifications as a doctor and research, no ban on BBing, and his toxoplasmosis.

Instead of attacking, why not debate and discuss?

 

[DirtyWorks]

The story has some ridiculous observations about doping. But, apparently, Canova is somebody important in elite competitive running.

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/renato-canova-speaks?page=single

But Cova, winning Olympics in 1984 and Antibo in 1984, they tried to do this…So, what happened after this? In ’85 was outlawed doping, and nobody used—finished…From ‘80-84, was the Italian Conconi, that won using this system. That was not doping at that time. But I want to tell, was that when Antibo finished using this, he improved a lot, for example

80-84. Now, when did Coe get his Olympics results? 1980 and 1984.

I'm not clear if Canova is equating EPO and Conconi. If so, this puts earliest uses in elite athletics a couple of years earlier than the widespread use in cycling.

Let's imagine WSJ running a detailed article on Coe's doping, even though it was not "doping" at the time. Like the UCI, the IAAF is immune to outside influence. The IAAF members would see Coe as an innovator, just the kind of thinking needed to grow the sport. (whatever that means)

 

[JimmyFingers]

So even if he was doping, he wasn't doping....

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Instead of attacking, why not debate and discuss?

I was not being sarcastic.

The clinic is able to put pressure on in a way that journalists won't. The clinic is able to dissect and disseminate information really well, from unstiching Froome's narrative of sand shoes and Brazillia, to calibration errors to rider 15.

So...

There are no documented suspicions. By that, I mean that there is nothing a journalist has put out, or any questionable statements, etc. Whenever this discussion comes up, there is rarely anything concrete. The clinic does better than speculate (seriously). I commented about the content to give some context for the discussion. That doesn't mean its not there, we just have to go beyond:

There are a lot of rumors, supposedly. Pure rumors, word of mouth. I bumped the letsrun thread to see if we can track any new info. Race Radio talks about these rumors, so I'm waiting for him to chime in. I know it is there, but I haven't been able to find anything substantial. Thats what I meant in my previous post.

 

[TailWindHome]

Coe
Baron Coe
Baron Cohen
Sacha Baron Cohen
Borat
Kazakhstan

Join the dots people. Join the dots

 

[Dazed and Confused]

lol, not bad TWH.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

...No compelling facts...dad's qualifications as a doctor...toxoplasmosis.

Wasn't Old Man Coe an engineer by training?

And what's the story re toxomplasmosis? Are you saying he didn't have it or that he didn't catch it off the family cat as is generally believed?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Wasn't Old Man Coe an engineer by training?

And what's the story re toxomplasmosis? Are you saying he didn't have it or that he didn't catch it off the family cat as is generally believed?

Yes, I looked it up, the dad was an engineer. I'm just summarizing the conversation.

I'm not saying anything. He was treated for taxoplasmosis in 1983. Skeptics will say that the infection came from a botched transfusion. Others may say it was a cover for something. Again, I was just acknowledging the discussion.

 

[blackcat]

Re training not being replicable, if PEDs had never been invented then someone would still be the best and the chances are that only they could do their own most intense training sessions, so I'm not sure this really tells us much. John Walker, albeit slightly past his best but still no mug, once "spied" on an Ovett speed training session and then tried to do it himself, without success. Does this mean Ovett was doping? (I've followed athletics for donkeys years and there has never been so much as a squeak about Ovett doping.)

Derek Clayton, an Australian marathoner of Scottish origin, he used to train at as close as humanly possible to his VO2max to shift his threshold. he was notorious for his training demands and intensity.

What you described above is a survivor bias/survivor fallacy.

The oracle form Omaha or whatever that euphemism is for warren buffett, if it was not him as richest person, and richest alive with his investments from his berkshire hathaway firm, there would be the second placed richest who would now be the richest with a similar narrative of success. what, 8 billion on the planet, 300 million yanks? there will be some rich brah who is the richest brah of all the rich brahs.

 

[classic1]

Wasn't Old Man Coe an engineer by training?

And what's the story re toxomplasmosis? Are you saying he didn't have it or that he didn't catch it off the family cat as is generally believed?

Old man Coe was quite a good cyclist too

 

[blackcat]

i say we expose this guy for the fraud he is in the next coupla pages. any sports reporter with time on their hands and/or looking for a scoop should be interested in the Conconi link.

This is the clinic at its best. Crowdsourced justice.

ok, usually i like to expose frauds and emperors clothes types.

so on this particular case, i am with you, caveat tho otoh

but one needs to have a balance, because hue and cry and lynching was for past centuries. I am content for a degree of cognitive dissonance and call a fraud a fraud. but there has been some unseemly mob justice recently, mostly twitter. which tells you a thing. There was some guy put in hospital because he had a name that matched a convicted pedophile, and recent feminist campaigns to "take down" some individuals (even some women) for their clumsy and ambiguous comments that are on the record.

Coe incidentally, was squiring australian heptathlete jane flemming for a while.

 

[blackcat]

there's been some discussion on Seb Coe and blooddoping on the Letsrun forum:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1801762
no new revelations there, though, as far as i can tell.

edit: more and better discussion here:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=95187&st=120

I remember Coe getting beaten and blaming the fact he had raced too soon after training at altitude. (No fully fit or properly prepared athlete ever lost a race).

but, if the red cell transfusion has not gone to plan. or you had blood out. Or, you just got it done in the last 50 hours and the body is yet to fully process it. then, you can perform like cr@p.

 

[blackcat]

Yes, my friend, also known as a good ole fashion lynchin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

just posted this before had read your reply