Basso vs. Nibali

[markene2]

I would say Basso is a better climber than Nibali. But Nibali is much faster then Basso against the clock wich he gains much time on, Basso has showed that he can climb with the best at the Giro and the Vuelta.

Nibali is also a good climber but Basso is better. Next year i think Nibali will be the leader in tdf, he can gain more time than Basso against the clock and would be higher in the overal standings.

 

[blackcat]

Kreuziger is better than both, by a way.

 

[python]

basso who

i don’t know about nibali but I can tell you this much about basso:

(i) one of the recognized top half dozen natural gt talents in the peloton but w/o ‘the kick’
(ii) one of the dumbest gt riders tactically
(iii)one of many italians who talk first think second

that said, I wish him well just don’t think hes got the full package to claim any lasting leadership. he lacks something i can't explain in words atm..the champions character would be the closest i think.

 

[Angliru]

Kreuziger is better than both, by a way.

Exactly. If I were Basso I would be equally concerned about Kreuziger stealing my thunder. Basso will NEVER be the rider he was when he dominated the Giro with such ease that it inspired Simoni to say that he was riding like an "extraterrestrial". I do expect his performance to improve over 2009 and potentially for him to contend for the Tour podium and battle with Sastre and Evans for the Giro overall. He will have a battle on his hands for who is the strongest rider at the Tour on Liquigas with Kreuziger and Nibali, both of whom will show improvement in their Tour performances.

Nibali seems to be a rider who is perfectly geared for the grand tours and one that has shown gradual improvement year after year.

Liquigas management has stated, and smartly I must say, that Nibali and Kreuziger are their future and that they hope to keep them. How they handle this seeming tug of war for team leadership will likely be a strong factor in whether or not they are able to hang on to Nibali and Kreuziger.

The previously posted link to a December article indicates that Nibali had offers from Omega-Pharma Lotto and Sky. Sky would be a good idea only for the dollars, especially with Wigan's massive ego firmly entrenched on a British team with a British tour winner being their ultimate goal. I would hate to see Nibali's talents wasted riding in support of a highly unlikely Wigan's Tour win.
Lotto wouldn't be a wise move either. Liquigas IMO is the best place for him in the long run but I'd imagine that the only downside would be the pressure of expectation riding for an Italian team chasing Tour glory. Since he's quoted in the article of having interest in riding for a foreign team all of this may be immaterial, I just hope he chooses wisely and is getting sound advice from his advisors and agent.

 

[theyoungest]

Kreuziger is better than both, by a way.

He's not. Both Nibali and Basso are stronger climbers. Kreuziger and Nibali are equal time trialists, Basso's time trial is a mystery to me atm.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Didn't know the vuelta was in july. I suppose its easy to forget.

The implication of my post was that its been suggested, he's holding back on how much medical help he receives not the effort he races with.

I agree, that in your first year racing again 2 4ths in GTs is an excellent performance. Basso has never had a kick.

I am aware when the vuelta is.. You said a rider like AC. AC didn't ride the Vuelta, unfortunately he ended his season right after the tour (7 months off isn't exactly a rider who goes 'all season' I hope he doesn't make this a trend. Much to good of a rider to make the tour his main priority every season.

then why did you suggest that the medical help would be suspicious? I just kid. no worries mate.

And I agree he has never had much of a kick, but he used to have more power to ride away anyway. Maybe the opposition has just improved, there sure is more talent around these days.

 

[karlboss]

I am aware when the vuelta is.. You said a rider like AC. AC didn't ride the Vuelta, unfortunately he ended his season right after the tour (7 months off isn't exactly a rider who goes 'all season' I hope he doesn't make this a trend. Much to good of a rider to make the tour his main priority every season.

then why did you suggest that the medical help would be suspicious? I just kid. no worries mate.

And I agree he has never had much of a kick, but he used to have more power to ride away anyway. Maybe the opposition has just improved, there sure is more talent around these days.

2008, or is your memory only one season long? I'd like to see Contador target the TDF and one other GT a year, I think he has the talent. This year I think he'll try spain also. think...maybe hope.

 

[timmers]

Well the question is Basso vs Nibali and if you remember Basso as a young rider won the white jersey at TdF in that 2002. The problem we have is that Basso has admitted to thinking about cheating (doping). I think Nibali is looking better than Basso at this stage of his career however last year in the TdF he did not ride aggressively on two mountain stages when he in my view should have.
If I was in change I would be backing Nibali and especially Kreuzinger but Basso is Italian and Elana is very attractive!

 

[blackcat]

He's not. Both Nibali and Basso are stronger climbers. Kreuziger and Nibali are equal time trialists, Basso's time trial is a mystery to me atm.

no clue. Kreuziger is progigious.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

2008, or is your memory only one season long? I'd like to see Contador target the TDF and one other GT a year, I think he has the talent. This year I think he'll try spain also. think...maybe hope.

obviously it's not. But generally statements are related to the most recent mate. There were better examples for a rider who goes 'all season' tbh

I get the feeling he wants to dose his season for the tour though, hope he proves me wrong. Seeing him ride the vuelta would be nice, and show he has metal.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Nibali is 24, Basso is 31. 7 years but who is counting?

Neither of us, obviously. Vince is 26 in November. (b1984)

 

[eljimberino]

Basso needs to stretch more to help his time trailing, remember?

 

[blackcat]

Kreuziger is May 6 1986. 13th 08 Tour, 9th 09 Tour, will be 6th this year.

 

[BYOP88]

Kreuziger is May 6 1986. 13th 08 Tour, 9th 09 Tour, will be 6th this year.

you mean 5th

 

[blackcat]

you mean 5th

for symmetry perhaps, but I was going for accuracy. I reckon he will jump three spots. But the field is very deep this year. Extremely deep. Top 10 this year, will be the strongest top 10 in over a decade.

 

[theyoungest]

no clue. Kreuziger is progigious.

Ah, right. He's progigious (sic). I should have known.

 

[blackcat]

Ah, right. He's progigious (sic). I should have known.

18 months younger, and beat him at the Tour in 2008. Seems pretty clear to me. Feel free to qyote tipos all you licke.

 

[van nelle]

Kreuziger is better than both, by a way.

So I´m with Blackcat and Angliru on this one.

RK is very strong, for me only Andy Schleck is better (from young GC contenders). He's got excelent TT, he can climb with the best, was a progigious junior cyclocrosser so I think no problem for him with hard conditions and bad (cobbled) roads - he only don't have a sprint. So complete GC rider + he's not just good, but he also wins races (from the start of his career) and that is in my opinion more important then people think (a lot of good riders - a few winners)

So Kreuziger in top 5 TdF this year and on the way to it, there will be some strong performances on Paris-Nice, Catalunya, Ardennes Classics etc. - mark my words

 

[blackcat]

So I´m with Blackcat and Angliru on this one.

RK is very strong, for me only Andy Schleck is better (from young GC contenders). He's got excelent TT, he can climb with the best, was a progigious junior cyclocrosser so I think no problem for him with hard conditions and bad (cobbled) roads - he only don't have a sprint. So complete GC rider + he's not just good, but he also wins races (from the start of his career) and that is in my opinion more important then people think (a lot of good riders - a few winners)

So Kreuziger in top 5 TdF this year and on the way to it, there will be some strong performances on Paris-Nice, Catalunya, Ardennes Classics etc. - mark my words

was second to Millar in the Paris Nice prologue in 2007, only 21. Beat Horner in the sprint yesterday, so is fast, just not a field sprinter. Can do it all.

Look at Tour de Suisse mtn chrono in 2008. He won. Andy Schleck was about 90 seconds in arrears over the 20km hill tt.

Kreuziger, better tt. Andy Schleck better climber. Marginal difference between them tho.

 

[theyoungest]

RK is very strong, for me only Andy Schleck is better (from young GC contenders).

I'm not so sure... what about Gesink?

was a progigious junior cyclocrosser

Look blackcat, you're a linguistic innovator!

 

[blackcat]

I'm not so sure... what about Gesink?


Look blackcat, you're a linguistic innovator!

yeah, Chomsky can eat his heart out

 

[Gregory]

There is a strong tension within Liquigas team. If you look back on the statements from the riders from last season, you will notice it. And this tension comes from the presence of Basso. Neither of the other three leaders likes Basso, and in fact it's the opposite. The reason is, that Basso expected on the ground of his earlier results to be the most important person in the team, the sole leader. But his legs couldn't do the talking.
There was a silent tension in the Giro between him and Pellizotti - no cooperation at all. Basso couldn't come to terms with the fact that there was someone stronger on the team. On Alpe di Siusi his attack dropped Pellizotti, who was having one bad day, but not the other riders. Once it was clear that Pellizotti is stronger, Basso didn't help him, he rode his own race.
Kreuziger has made a very strong statement against Basso around the time of TdF. Now there's tension with Nibali. If Basso doesn't produce this year, the Liquigas will probably get rid of him.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

was second to Millar in the Paris Nice prologue in 2007, only 21. Beat Horner in the sprint yesterday, so is fast, just not a field sprinter. Can do it all.

Look at Tour de Suisse mtn chrono in 2008. He won. Andy Schleck was about 90 seconds in arrears over the 20km hill tt.

Kreuziger, better tt. Andy Schleck better climber. Marginal difference between them tho.

Kruziger hasn't proved himself in the really big mountains yet. I agree on the long, smaller gradient climbs he has proven pretty strong, but on the really tough climbs nada.


Schleck, Gesink, Nibali > Kruziger. Not in terms of short stage races like suisse or romandie, but GTs. And the climbing difference between andy and him is definately marginal, of course depending on the terrain.

 

[Angliru]

It's my understanding that Kreuziger was suffering from some kind of sickness during the earlier part of the Tour and only recovered in the last week thus his improved performance on Ventoux. I believe it may have been the only time he finished ahead of Nibali on a mountain stage. They are both talented but Kreuziger has more to show for his talents in terms of results/wins. Nibali's palmares other this year's Tour top ten finish aren't all that impressive.
I still like them both. I believe Nibali was fearful of blowing up otherwise he may have ridden a more aggressive race in the mountains. I'm looking forward to their continued development and growth.

 

[42x16ss]

The other thing that I like about Nibali and Kreuziger is that they seem to get along together fairly well. They helped each other out a few times in the TdF last year (nothing like the Schleck brothers but better than some other teams that shall remain nameless).

If they really start to work together then they could make life VERY difficult for the other GC teams this year. I hope that they aren't made to work for Basso if either prove to be stronger than him.