Basso vs. Nibali

[Galic Ho]

There is a strong tension within Liquigas team. If you look back on the statements from the riders from last season, you will notice it. And this tension comes from the presence of Basso......If Basso doesn't produce this year, the Liquigas will probably get rid of him.

Agree with the tension in the team. There was a considerable amount last year all revolving around Basso. However the last bit I quoted. I may be wrong and am to lazy to check, but didn't Basso extend his contract with Liquigas beyond this year? There was talk of him moving to Astana after 2010, but then he resigned. Is the contract extension incorrect? If anyone leaves, it should be either of the younger guys; Nibali and Kreuziger.

 

[Galic Ho]

He's not. Both Nibali and Basso are stronger climbers. Kreuziger and Nibali are equal time trialists, Basso's time trial is a mystery to me atm.

2008 suggested Kreuziger was stronger than Nibali, this reversed in 2009. We'll have to wait for the Giro to see what the team is made of in terms of Pellizotti and Basso. For the younger guys, their first GT in 2010 is the Tour. They will have to improve their respective chrono's to top 5 this year.

Angliru gave a nice insight into why Roman was stronger on Ventoux than he had been all Tour. Sick. Would explain his form.

 

[Galic Ho]

Neither of us, obviously. Vince is 26 in November. (b1984)

What!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOO! I swear on a number of races last year......stop right there. I was listening to Phil Liggett for my info. My mistake. I'll go slap myself in the face.

Lesson learnt. I will not take Liggett seriously even if he sounds credible!

 

[Galic Ho]

for symmetry perhaps, but I was going for accuracy. I reckon he will jump three spots. But the field is very deep this year. Extremely deep. Top 10 this year, will be the strongest top 10 in over a decade.

That it will. 6th seems like a good place for Roman. Wait, where to put Lance then....damn, he has to go down further, cause I don't want him higher. If Liquigas can get one of their riders near the top 5 that will be a very good showing.

If they do well enough overall they could win the team event. Maybe if Fuglsang rides and does well, I could see Saxo taking out the team competition. Otherwise, with commiserations, the Shack look like the money bet for that category.

 

[Gregory]

I may be wrong and am to lazy to check, but didn't Basso extend his contract with Liquigas beyond this year? There was talk of him moving to Astana after 2010, but then he resigned. Is the contract extension incorrect? If anyone leaves, it should be either of the younger guys; Nibali and Kreuziger.

You're right, he did extend: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/basso-extends-with-liquigas-through-2012

Not the best strategy from Liquigas in my opinion. This will probably mean, that Nibali and Kreuziger will leave, just as you stated.

 

[El Imbatido]

You're right, he did extend: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/basso-extends-with-liquigas-through-2012

Not the best strategy from Liquigas in my opinion. This will probably mean, that Nibali and Kreuziger will leave, just as you stated.

Didn't Kreuziger have an offer from Omega Pharma-Lotto? But still had time to run on his Liquigas contract (or something like that)?

And wasn't Nibali linked to SKY?

 

[theyoungest]

If they do well enough overall they could win the team event. Maybe if Fuglsang rides and does well, I could see Saxo taking out the team competition. Otherwise, with commiserations, the Shack look like the money bet for that category.

Or Liquigas.

 

[van nelle]

on Liquigas - most impotant will be if L. remains as a team sponsor after this season or not. But anyway i see Nibali leaving, Kreuziger maybe (i think he will be happy to stay - lives in Italy, speaks italian - but depends on situation) and Basso staying for sure (hes a star).

on young GC competition -
1. Andy - exceptional climber + hes the leader of such a superstrong team as Saxo and that makes a huge difference (Nibali and Kreuziger still waiting for a chance like this). And one of the most interesting things for me this year is what he will do with his TT?
2. Roman - best TT of the young ones (except Tony Martin), excelent climber (not so fancy as Conti or Andy but very very solid) and he can definitely lead a team if he get's a chance. My opinion - if he was riding last Vuelta for result as a team leader, he'd finish on podium. Same with the Giro. But he want's Tour so has got to be a lot better
3. Vincenzo - strong climbing, strong TT - I like him very much, but I thing this year he will not have better TdF than last year. Can't see that happen in Liquigas this year. He will have to change a team, and prove himself as a leader.
4. RG - as much as i like him, two top 10 Vuelta results (with full team support) still didn't convinced me. The best thing to show what hes capable of will be this years TdF - beacause who will succeed in this "massacre" and get into top 10 will definitely prove himself.
5. A lot of other great young riders - probably someone will suprise in the future and end up being better than those 4. Great years ahead of us

 

[blackcat]

gotta put Jani Brajkovic up there.

 

[Angliru]

gotta put Jani Brajkovic up there.

Brajkovic had that one Vuelta (2007?) where he held the leader's jersey and then dropped from overall contention. Since then he's hasn't done much that I can recall in terms of grand tours. He did have a podium finish in Lombardia in 2008 but that's a one day race (monument/classic) not a 3 week stage race. It would've been ideal for him to try the Giro but of course....

 

[blackcat]

Brajkovic had that one Vuelta (2007?) where he held the leader's jersey and then dropped from overall contention. Since then he's hasn't done much that I can recall in terms of grand tours. He did have a podium finish in Lombardia in 2008 but that's a one day race (monument/classic) not a 3 week stage race. It would've been ideal for him to try the Giro but of course....

we were talking about potential.

he is about 5'10" and 127lbs, or 58kg in metric. Can ride a good chrono, and at that power to weight, should be a future star in the GTs. Bruyneel will have a plan for him certainly. Just turned 26, ages in his time.

 

[BikeCentric]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Basso was 5th in the Giro and 4th in the Vuelta.

In the Vuelta he seemed to be in the lead group on every climb, excepting the La Pandera ascent.

I don't know if he could win a GT again. But he can climb with the top riders... he just can't take EXTRA time in the climbs to finish ahead of better TT riders than can climb at the same level. I certainly think he's above Zubeldia and Valjavec. More like Pellizotti or Sastre.

I'm going to have to agree with you there.

I didn't watch the Vuelta this year but I did watch the every stage of the Giro and Basso was indeed in the front group on every climb - and I don't mean the main climbing group, I mean the very front group with all the top guys.

The difference between old Basso and Basso now is that all he can do is stay with the top climbers, he can't ride away from them anymore. If you'll all recall Basso has never had much a nasty attacking kick in the hills (like AC has and Pantani had) rather he's the kind of climber who rides a brutal high tempo for the entire length of a climb. It's just that his brutal tempo can't drop the top climbers anymore. And sice his TT'ing sucks more now than ever before I don't see him podiuming on a GT again; however I agree that he's still one of the top-10 best climbers in the world.

 

[laziali]

...

Lesson learnt. I will not take Liggett seriously even if he sounds credible.

And you're just working that out ... now?? Most of us more experienced folk figured that out in the mid 80s. Paul Sherwin is no better. So much for your 'more posts equals more knowledge' theory, Ho.

The TV commentator who really really knows his stuff is Matt Keenan - unbelievable recall and accuracy. For all you stranieri, here's a bit of bio ... http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/australian-commentator-climbs-cyclings-peaks/2008/07/03/1214950904476.html

 

[karlboss]

And you're just working that out ... now?? Most of us more experienced folk figured that out in the mid 80s. Paul Sherwin is no better. So much for your 'more posts equals more knowledge' theory, Ho.

The TV commentator who really really knows his stuff is Matt Keenan - unbelievable recall and accuracy. For all you stranieri, here's a bit of bio ... http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/australian-commentator-climbs-cyclings-peaks/2008/07/03/1214950904476.html

I concur, though I hear his worlds call was a little biased.

Nibali and Basso...Nibali has already impressed this season, basso hasn't so hats off. I don't know how they plan who gets what, but as one of the young guys, can you really take Contador at this year's tour? Maybe you should pledge support for Basso and have him help you in Spain.

 

[laziali]

I concur, though I hear his worlds call was a little biased.

Nibali and Basso...Nibali has already impressed this season, basso hasn't so hats off. I don't know how they plan who gets what, but as one of the young guys, can you really take Contador at this year's tour? Maybe you should pledge support for Basso and have him help you in Spain.

Bold bit. Bertie's only weakness this year will be a (relatively) under-strength Astana. So I the Liquigas strategy will be to try to work him over with attacks from Nibali and Basso. I can't see the Uniballer helping Bertie this year to pull back any attacks, so might be interesting if one of the Liqui boys gets up the road and Bertie doesn't have any team-mates left.

 

[42x16ss]

I can't see the Uniballer helping Bertie this year to pull back any attacks, so might be interesting if one of the Liqui boys gets up the road and Bertie doesn't have any team-mates left.

This is where Pelizotti could be the Liquigas Ace-in-the-Hole. If he isn't far off in the race for GC and is sent up the road on a break early on in a stage with a MTF then that could be the ignition of some major fireworks.

If I was the Liquigas DS I would give it a shot just out of curiousity...

 

[Galic Ho]

Didn't Kreuziger have an offer from Omega Pharma-Lotto? But still had time to run on his Liquigas contract (or something like that)?

And wasn't Nibali linked to SKY?

That is what I heard. Nibali has a year left and Kreuziger has two on their respective contracts...? Word was that Sky had recruited some Italians and in the event Wigans doesn't have the goods in 2010, they can buy Nibali to cover their bases whilst the young Brits get strong. Ask Blackcat or Dimspace about those young guys cause I haven't the foggiest idea of what they look like, let alone where their form and talent lays.

Either way, I see it as Wigans gets this year alone to fire. Top 5, or better yet, make the podium or the management will bring in new blood, relegating Wigans to super domestique number one. Who knows, maybe EBH will be better for the team than anyone not currently signed. Time will tell.

 

[Galic Ho]

Or Liquigas.

That was my first sentence. "If they do well enough overall they could win the team event." I should have written the team name. My bad. The team comp will be interesting.

 

[Galic Ho]

And you're just working that out ... now?? Most of us more experienced folk figured that out in the mid 80s. Paul Sherwin is no better. So much for your 'more posts equals more knowledge' theory, Ho.

The TV commentator who really really knows his stuff is Matt Keenan - unbelievable recall and accuracy. For all you stranieri, here's a bit of bio ... http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/australian-commentator-climbs-cyclings-peaks/2008/07/03/1214950904476.html

Agreed. Matt Keenan is great, but being pulled into line at the worlds because your wetting your pants over Evans antics, is not becoming of a professional journalist. It is embarrassing.

What theory? Not that I care. More posts equals more knowledge? Already answered that. Not true. Case by case basis and more generalising....boring.

Liggett in the 80s....hhhmmmmnnnn. Showing your age and mine at the same time. I hadn't struck double digits in age in that decade. Cycling and Phil Liggett meant squat to me back then. From the commentary I have heard, Liggett was much better 20 years back. I don't need to explain what has changed. However when the tv info pops up with a riders age, I tend to listen to what is said. It isn't like Liggett was talking about race tactics, which is where he stuffs up.

 

[Hugh Januss]

This is where Pelizotti could be the Liquigas Ace-in-the-Hole. If he isn't far off in the race for GC and is sent up the road on a break early on in a stage with a MTF then that could be the ignition of some major fireworks.

If I was the Liquigas DS I would give it a shot just out of curiousity...

Probably what we would see then is AC wait and wait and then blast off with 6-7 K to go and almost catch him at the end. End result, no change overall but everybody mad at everybody else.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

we were talking about potential.

he is about 5'10" and 127lbs, or 58kg in metric. Can ride a good chrono, and at that power to weight, should be a future star in the GTs. Bruyneel will have a plan for him certainly. Just turned 26, ages in his time.

I have always liked janez a lot. Though I don't see him reaching GT greatness, rather I see him proving to be one of the best super domestiques in the sport. Time will tell.

 

[42x16ss]

True, but if the main three Liquigas riders simply wait for the chase to start and suck wheel the final result might not be so predictable. It isn't as if Contador has the team to chase down EVERY attack.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Conta's best form of defense is offense. When he attacked last year, practically no one could follow. This is why I see him unbeatable in any GT as it stands.

When AC does attack Liquigas can try and chase, but they will probably fail. If evans had the kick/acceleration/climbing abilities AC has, the whole "schleck bros/sastre 3 man tactic" would have failed.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Conta's best form of defense is offense. When he attacked last year, practically no one could follow. This is why I see him unbeatable in any GT as it stands.

When AC does attack Liquigas can try and chase, but they will probably fail. If evans had the kick/acceleration/climbing abilities AC has, the whole "schleck bros/sastre 3 man tactic" would have failed.

they'd have to attack quite early to get that plan to possibly work.

 

[Cerberus]

Liggett in the 80s....hhhmmmmnnnn. Showing your age and mine at the same time. I hadn't struck double digits in age in that decade. Cycling and Phil Liggett meant squat to me back then. From the commentary I have heard, Liggett was much better 20 years back. I don't need to explain what has changed. However when the tv info pops up with a riders age, I tend to listen to what is said. It isn't like Liggett was talking about race tactics, which is where he stuffs up.

Actually In my experience it's not just Liggett. You have to treat all information about rider ages as a rough guestimate with a +-2 year error margin.