Bassons: The most eloquent perspective...

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Jun 12, 2010
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Yes you are correct,,, he does not owe the peloton. Did I say that? I said he had quit when the peloton needed someone like him the most.

True he must have felt that the fight was not something he wanted to get into.
The peloton may well have "needed" him but I doupt youl find many riders who belived that and even less prepared to admit it.
"Taking on" as we have witnesed numerous times, the Omarta , throughout many decades, is the end of your carreer. You can go down fighting and end up on your knee`s or you can walk away and hope one day truth will out.
Just possibly ( dont anyone hold there breath) the dawn of the begining of a new paradigm might be a possibility..but its gonna get very ugly for that to happen.
What Bassons does not do is judge and is efectivly living by " there for the grace of god". It`s complicated, he knows it is and he knows doper does not = "bad" person and his natural inclination as a rider himself is to be empathetic not to the doping but to the person.
Argue about if thats a strong charecter or in the best interests of the sport all you like but it cetainly aint no flaw in his make up.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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A nice read.

I like much of what he says relating to what's going on inside the heads of riders... much of it agrees with my own guesses.

I'm a bit confused by the idea that europeans are in general less "black and white" on issues... I gather that many of the people posting here are european and very few seem to have very nuanced views on doping. Most seem to think doping=evil... or at least that's how their posts come across.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Darryl Webster said:
The peloton may well have "needed" him but I doupt youl find many riders who belived that and even less prepared to admit it.
"Taking on" as we have witnesed numerous times, the Omarta , throughout many decades, is the end of your carreer. You can go down fighting and end up on your knee`s or you can walk away and hope one day truth will out.
Just possibly ( dont anyone hold there breath) the dawn of the begining of a new paradigm might be a possibility..but its gonna get very ugly for that to happen.
What Bassons does not do is judge and is efectivly living by " there for the grace of god". It`s complicated, he knows it is and he knows doper does not = "bad" person and his natural inclination as a rider himself is to be empathetic not to the doping but to the person.
Argue about if thats a strong charecter or in the best interests of the sport all you like but it cetainly aint no flaw in his make up.
Well if I had used the argument that he did not have a strong character then I am certain the argument against my opinion would be the same.

He quit and that does make him weak in my opinion.
 

Skandar Akbar

BANNED
Nov 20, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
Truly astounding.
It is quite clear that some Armstrong fans are as morally corrupt as their idol.
Were that the rest of the peloton had the same mental "problems" as Monsieur Bassons.

Chapeau, to those who continue to try to reason debate with these individuals.
For me, it's the less time consuming "ignore" button.
This makes no sense. I am on Bassons for leaving the sport instead of staying and fighting to clean up the omerta and help rid the sport of drugs. Now this guy claims that means I am a Lance fanboy and he is my idol. :confused:
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Glenn_Wilson said:
I said he had quit when the peloton needed someone like him the most.
Well, let's consider that for a moment. And honestly, I accept that we simply have different perspectives here.

This is my take:
When Simeoni was threatened by Armstrong (no need to rehash that, a separate thread is going strong at this moment) he told reporters that his first thought was to quit cycling right then and there. He was that distraught over the whole event. But he decided to continue on. And even though he never changed his stance on the corrupt forces within cycling, nothing changed.

Now Bassons' case is different. He left, of his own accord, at the peak of his abilities. He took what many people consider to be a "higher moral road." His story has been retold countless times and his actions have served as an example to others that it is possible to leave the pro ranks, before their career had ended, and go on to lead and productive and rewarding life.

I think that there is merit in that. Saying that he "quit" would seem to imply negative connotations that I just don't see here. But again, we have different perspectives.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Granville57 said:
Well, let's consider that for a moment. And honestly, I accept that we simply have different perspectives here.

This is my take:
When Simeoni was threatened by Armstrong (no need to rehash that, a separate thread is going strong at this moment) he told reporters that his first thought was to quit cycling right then and there. He was that distraught over the whole event. But he decided to continue on. And even though he never changed his stance on the corrupt forces within cycling, nothing changed.

Now Bassons' case is different. He left, of his own accord, at the peak of his abilities. He took what many people consider to be a "higher moral road." His story has been retold countless times and his actions have served as an example to others that it is possible to leave the pro ranks, before their career had ended, and go on to lead and productive and rewarding life.

I think that there is merit in that. Saying that he "quit" would seem to imply negative connotations that I just don't see here. But again, we have different perspectives.
Yeah we do have different perspectives. I am not insulting anyone by having a different opinion and perspective.

I do understand your comments and think I understand your points. I just have to disagree.

Side note - Sorry to leave the debate but I have to leave now due to snow and have to pick up my daughter early from school. I hope everyone does not label me a troll or fanboy while I am gone.
 
Jan 20, 2011
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Bassons is just one man against the system. He probably did the right thing by himself and his family by leaving. In the end the fight wasn't worth it.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Skandar Akbar said:
This makes no sense. I am on Bassons for leaving the sport instead of staying and fighting to clean up the omerta and help rid the sport of drugs.:

Staying were?.. The peloton didnt want him , the UCI most certainly didnt want him and the journo`s iether didnt wanna or couldn`t dig the dirt.
Were does an ostracized rider go exactly?
 
Glenn_Wilson said:
Well if I had used the argument that he did not have a strong character then I am certain the argument against my opinion would be the same.

He quit and that does make him weak in my opinion.
My take on it is that he saw that the position that he was in was a dead end: his fellow riders didn't support him nor did his team. Additionally based on his response to Armstrong when he chased his down and asked why he was speaking out, which was that he (Bassons) was thinking of the next/future generations. His subsequent roles in anti-drugs organizations and working with young cyclists support this stance. He never quit, he simply chose a different route to make his contribution to the sport.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Skandar Akbar said:
Me getting excited? I'm not part of the cheering mob falling all over themselves gushing over this dude for 100 posts. You are also assuming his intentions when he left the sport was a monetary one vs the burden of activism. That is conjecture. Fact is he quit the sport instead of fighting for what was moral. He quit the sport, period. Opinions on whether that was a noble thing to do is what this discussion is about. Just because my opinion is different than most in here does not mean it is not valid or is not worthy outside the little moral relatism universe the clinic spins around in.[/QUOTE]

The bold parts relate. You appear to be excited about differing opinions. I assume you mean relativism?
I didn't assume his reasons for leaving the sport had money as the root of it.

Fighting for anything related to Professional sports is not a moral play, it is a financial effort. You suggest a lack of morality on Basson's part. Assuming he had the skill, will or inclination still ignores that timing is everything in activism. If he was, indeed interested in fighting the system he would be best advised to pick his time.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Well if I had used the argument that he did not have a strong character then I am certain the argument against my opinion would be the same.

He quit and that does make him weak in my opinion.
You have the right to your (incorrect) opinion that quitting cycling makes Bassons weak, however the opposite is true and here is why:

For any cyclist to be able to compete as a pro for approximately 7 years while clean they must in fact be physically and mentally stronger than almost everyone else in the peloton. Completely clean they are required to put out more physical and mental effort than many if not most of their doped-up competitors. Therefore it is also no surprise that they would burn out earlier than others in the peloton. Furthermore, Bassons made it clear that he didn't feel like he was able to achieve much of anything with his outspoken clean perspective and the other riders all made it clear to him that he was unwanted. So he left after achieving likely all he thought he could as a clean pro cyclist.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Granville57 said:
Well, let's consider that for a moment. And honestly, I accept that we simply have different perspectives here.

This is my take:
When Simeoni was threatened by Armstrong (no need to rehash that, a separate thread is going strong at this moment) he told reporters that his first thought was to quit cycling right then and there. He was that distraught over the whole event. But he decided to continue on. And even though he never changed his stance on the corrupt forces within cycling, nothing changed.

Now Bassons' case is different. He left, of his own accord, at the peak of his abilities. He took what many people consider to be a "higher moral road." His story has been retold countless times and his actions have served as an example to others that it is possible to leave the pro ranks, before their career had ended, and go on to lead and productive and rewarding life.

I think that there is merit in that. Saying that he "quit" would seem to imply negative connotations that I just don't see here. But again, we have different perspectives.
Excellent perspective. Sometimes the most positive change we can effect is by not participating in the charade. If you are of enough stature or ability people will question your absence. It gets people talking , debating, if you continue to participate in an activity that you feel values an immoral practice you are in effect supporting that activity and undermining your position . If you are saying you are against doping and yet still racing many people will just nod their head "riiiiight"
But if you can make people talk,"whatever happened to..."
I think you can be more effective by taking the high road. To stay in the sport and be doomed to endless losses while you claim everyone who wins is cheating only makes you appear a bitter loser and you will be ignored.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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runninboy said:
Excellent perspective. Sometimes the most positive change we can effect is by not participating in the charade. If you are of enough stature or ability people will question your absence. It gets people talking , debating, if you continue to participate in an activity that you feel values an immoral practice you are in effect supporting that activity and undermining your position . If you are saying you are against doping and yet still racing many people will just nod their head "riiiiight"
But if you can make people talk,"whatever happened to..."
I think you can be more effective by taking the high road. To stay in the sport and be doomed to endless losses while you claim everyone who wins is cheating only makes you appear a bitter loser and you will be ignored.
I agree with your perspective as well. It is reinforced by friends that abandoned careers but still support the local grass roots races and junior involvement and went on to live normal family lives. I hardly have the stature to question the morality of their decisions but know they came after much work and and equal amount of disallusionment.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Oldman said:
I agree with your perspective as well. It is reinforced by friends that abandoned careers but still support the local grass roots races and junior involvement and went on to live normal family lives. I hardly have the stature to question the morality of their decisions but know they came after much work and and equal amount of disallusionment.
That disallusionment has a very high "casulty" rate , there are many, many stories of alcaholism, depression, suicides, broken marriages and lives spiraling out of control.
Granted all these things happen in all walks of life but I`d be interested to know the stats on retired elite athletes V the rest of society.
 
kurtinsc said:
I'm a bit confused by the idea that europeans are in general less "black and white" on issues... I gather that many of the people posting here are european and very few seem to have very nuanced views on doping. Most seem to think doping=evil... or at least that's how their posts come across.
And what does that say about europe? Not much. It might say something about the european posters that post over here, but people from europe posting on cyclingnews forum are more then likely not a correct representation of the eu population
 
Glenn_Wilson said:
He quit and that does make him weak in my opinion.
Well, he was strong enough to say no to doping even though it meant giving up on his childhood dream. That seems pretty strong to me.

Say your dream was to make it in the business world, and you started working at Enron. Man, do you wish you where in your boss his position. Making big money, have a nice car and a horny secretary. And after a while you find out that these guys are only succesfull because they are frauds. And the competition is doing the same. The only way to get succesfull is by doing the same. Would it be weak to say sc**w my childhood dream if it means becoming like them, i'm going to be a high school teacher?

Imo it takes a big man to walk away and an even bigger man to not hold a grudge.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
You have the right to your (incorrect) opinion that quitting cycling makes Bassons weak, however the opposite is true and here is why:
Christophe Bassons left professional cycling of his own personal choice. Evidently he lost his motivation for what could be any number of reasons.

Now he works for the AFLD, and has made a career of the effort to expose and eliminate doping in all sports that utilize doping controls, which includes professional cycling.

What exactly is being debated here???

P.S. Opinions can be neither right or wrong. That's what makes them opinions
 
VeloFidelis said:
Christophe Bassons left professional cycling for his own reasons. Evidently he lost his motivation for what could be any number of reasons.

Now he works for the AFLD, and has made a career of the effort to expose and eliminate doping in all sport that implements doping controls.

What exactly is being debated here???

P.S. Opinions can be neither right or wrong. That's what makes them opinions
Of course genuine opinions should be respected and debated. However, it is quite clear there are 2 posters on this thread who are just trolling and unfortunately getting the bites they, for whatever reason, get off on.

Bassons - Take a bow. Total class.
 
Roninho said:
Well, he was strong enough to say no to doping even though it meant giving up on his childhood dream. That seems pretty strong to me.

........
Imo it takes a big man to walk away and an even bigger man to not hold a grudge.
I shortened this for the quote(sorry) but just really liked your reply. It pretty much sums it up for me! There are many reasons for everything, and they are not always readily apparent to all. Thanks for a good post.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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I'm getting pretty fed up with people derailing threads with the usual "you're a troll - no, you're the troll" conversations.

Drop that now.

What is weak in someone eyes is strong in someone else's. There is no scientific rule that defines strength of character, people have different yard sticks. Deal with it. Make your points, move on.

Yes, people can have opinions that fly right in the face of hat you think is "logical", "normal", "fair". Shock news: that is actually possible. sometimes there is no right or wrong, just people's opinions. A different voice does not equal troll. No matter what the internet suggest.

There are some posters who appear to understand that, and yet are still able to articulate strongly why a different take holds more water in their eyes. Thanks for the civil discourse and mature conversation. More of that please.

You think someone is a troll, you contact us. We will check it out. Anyone keeps derailing threads that way, we will check that out too.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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bumping the tread because bassons was another french rider with clean reputation. some advocates and detractors in the moncoutie thread refereed to bassons.
 
May 26, 2010
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Glenn_Wilson said:
<snip>

He quit and that does make him weak in my opinion.
"In 2000 he published his autobiography Positif and in 2001 he qualified as a sports teacher and began teaching. He now works for the ministry of youth and sport at Bordeaux, in charge of drug tests."

Doesn't sound like a quitter to me. Seems to me like he took a higher road.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Hold on a sec - while I do believe that Bassons was clean, it's not entirely true that he "took the high road" and quit cycling of his own accord because of doping - as I recall, he wanted to continue racing but was basically forced out of cycling after being ostracized by the peloton and his own team (FDJ at the time), then signed with the comparatively minor Jean Delatour team because no other French team would sign him. Nor was he very popular with his teammates to begin with - see Bourguignon's comments about how Basson's wasn't a very good team rider and mostly rode for himself.

I admire Bassons courage in speaking out about doping both when he was a rider and ever since and wish there were many, many more like him, and there's no question that his career was ruined by the doping culture, but let's not sugarcoat his history to make him into something he wasn't.
 
May 26, 2010
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VeloCity said:
Hold on a sec - while I do believe that Bassons was clean, it's not entirely true that he "took the high road" and quit cycling of his own accord because of doping - as I recall, he wanted to continue racing but was basically forced out of cycling after being ostracized by the peloton and his own team (FDJ at the time), then signed with the comparatively minor Jean Delatour team because no other French team would sign him. Nor was he very popular with his teammates to begin with - see Bourguignon's comments about how Basson's wasn't a very good team rider and mostly rode for himself.

I admire Bassons courage in speaking out about doping both when he was a rider and ever since and wish there were many, many more like him, and there's no question that his career was ruined by the doping culture, but let's not sugarcoat his history to make him into something he wasn't.
Bassons made a choice. it is very simple. He could have continued in the sport had he chose to dope. He didn't, he chose not to dope and decided to pursue something in life which was not dependent on cheating, i consider that 'a higher road'. That he now works in an anti doping job shows he is trying to change it from outside rather than within, which is a lot more than many have done or are trying to do.

As for riding for himself, 1 rider's comment. He was good enough to ride as a pro for 5 years and apparently without doping.
 

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