Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

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While I also wouldn’t be surprised (or disappointed; they’re all exciting in their own way) if they manage to match Froome / Contador / Nibali, I’ll take the field.

There’s a world in which Bernal becomes the new Quintana (mythical climber who peaked early and was supposed to win a ton but didn’t), Remco never fully recovers from his injuries, Pogacar gets beaten by Roglic and Dumoulin over next couple seasons, then Wout makes his transformation and begins his domination, not to mention 10 years for new riders to enter the scene...we’ll see.
...there’s also a world in which Pogacar wins 15 straight TDFs
 
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
 
It will depend on his recovery, and I hope he returns to his pre crash form. I think people are forgetting how dominant Remco was before his crash.
Its more about the recovery part (not from the injury but over 3 weeks) for me. There is just more uncertainty involved than with two guys who already won the TdF. BUt yes, now we have an additional factor with the injury. But I hope (and think) that he can fully recover.
 
I donot think the matchup will ever happen in practice. Full gas Contador vs Froome never happened. Either one of them was injured, out of form or crashed or mechanical.
Contador was older and peaked way earlier than Froome. Bernal and Pogacar already won TdF so showed their prime level (their clashes in the future are a given). I think Remco should be there in 2-3 years at most (or maybe even next year, with this phenom you never know).

Looking now it's clear that Pogacar is in the best position when it comes to GT racing. His victory was way more impressive than Bernal's: he showed both great climbing and great TT-ing and also 3-week consistency. Sign of a multiple GT champion, a dominator. Evenepoel will be a rider of similar characteristics (low body mass, excellent TTs and climbs) but he's yet to prove his level in a 3-week GT. Bernal had a terrible Tour but he'll be one of contenders for years to come (though his TT is way weaker than his young rivals but who knows, Pogacar improved considerably in this regard).
 
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Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
Yes, this is certainly true. We will see a much stronger Bernal again. But after this Tour I actually think that (a) the Vuelta had the stronger field last year and (b) I fail to see where Bernal can really take time from lets say Pogacar. Maybe but only maybe on high altitude climbs but I am sceptical. Pogacar can easily gain time on Bernal in TTs and punchy finishes, for example.
 
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
Bernal is of course still a great rider, but Pogacar is much more we’ll-rounded. We’ve seen nothing to indicate Bernal can TT like that. Think he would have been 2-3 minutes back of Pogacar today even if he was in last years form. And we’ve also seen plenty to indicate that Pogacar can climb with Bernal.
 
Bernal is of course still a great rider, but Pogacar is much more we’ll-rounded. We’ve seen nothing to indicate Bernal can TT like that. Think he would have been 2-3 minutes back of Pogacar today even if he was in last years form. And we’ve also seen plenty to indicate that Pogacar can climb with Bernal.
Exactly. I see Bernal in the Quintana role (with actually having won a Tour though).
 
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
The problem is that Bernal is always will be at a fairly large disadvantage in ITT. A far more troubling issue is Bernal having low back issues at 22.
 
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
Its not a question of taking something from this Tour.
Last year Bernal won the overall at 23, which is very impressive, but he failed to win any stage and I think that its clear that he benefitted from the high altitude route. That's why I think some people like Armstrong or Wiggins were too quick in saying that would win 5 times the Tour and even if he comes back strong, I think that it will be difficult for him to beat Pogačar.

Now, compare it with Pogačar. Wins the Tour while being 1.5 years younger than Bernal plus the mountain jersey and three stages and he does so while having a weaker team than Bernal in last year's Tour. Of course some may say that he benefitted from the route (perhaps a bit) or that he adapted better to this covid times, which are valid arguments but I still feel that he is more special than Bernal and will likely win more Tours and the three GT's and let's not forget that unlike Bernal this is the second time that Pogačar podiums in a Grand Tour so he already proved that this Tour win wasn't something out of the blue.
 
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Eli

Feb 23, 2018
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As things stand, I don't think it's up for debate who the best rider of three is. Things might and would probably change as they develop into their careers but yh it's currently not up for debate.
 
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As things stand, I don't think it's up for debate who the best rider of three is. Things might and would probably change as they develop into their careers but yh it's currently not up for debate.
I know, Pogi should have won a little more emphatically to elevate himself to Remco's level.

Nah, I just don't think it is as clear-cut as you say.

Let's just hope that Remco gets back to full strength again. Then he can show again how he is something extra-extraordinary.
 
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I mean, Bernal not winning stages last year and Pogacar taking the polkas are compeltely irrelevant to the conversation IMO. Bernal would have won that stage to Tignes and Pogacar kinda randomnly won the polkas..

I dont think the age argument is that good either, 1,5 years old doesnt really matter. Both are great GT-riders, but Pogacar is obviously more well-rounded, so that means Bernal needs to outclimb him. Can he do that? Maybe, who knows.
 
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I dont think the age argument is that good either, 1,5 years old doesnt really matter. Both are great GT-riders, but Pogacar is obviously more well-rounded, so that means Bernal needs to outclimb him. Can he do that? Maybe, who knows.
On a day like Peyresourde or today it is almost impossible to outclimb Pogacar, whose VAM can reach 1850-1900 m/h for 15-20 minutes. On his weaker days (like Loze) an in-form Bernal surely can do it.
 
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Its not a question of taking something from this Tour.
Last year Bernal won the overall at 23, which is very impressive, but he failed to win any stage and I think that its clear that he benefitted from the high altitude route. That's why I think some people like Armstrong or Wiggins were too quick in saying that would win 5 times the Tour and even if he comes back strong, I think that it will be difficult for him to beat Pogačar.

Now, compare it with Pogačar. Wins the Tour while being 1.5 years younger than Bernal plus the mountain jersey and three stages and he does so while having a weaker team than Bernal in last year's Tour. Of course some may say that he benefitted from the route (perhaps a bit) or that he adapted better to this covid times, which are valid arguments but I still feel that he is more special than Bernal and will likely win more Tours and the three GT's and let's not forget that unlike Bernal this is the second time that Pogačar podiums in a Grand Tour so he already proved that this Tour win wasn't something out of the blue.
last year Bernal was 22 and a half. This year Pogaca will turn 22 next week. So it's exactly a 6 months difference.
 
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Eli

Feb 23, 2018
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I know, Pogi should have won a little more emphatically to elevate himself to Remco's level.

Nah, I just don't think it is as clear-cut as you say.

Let's just hope that Remco gets back to full strength again. Then he can show again how he is something extra-extraordinary.
I actually think it currently is. As I said earlier, things would probably change in the near future but as things stand, it is clear cut.

I pray and hope Remco gets back to full fitness because He really is a Phenom. I expect great things from this young lad.
 
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For me it's all about 2021 in this thing. For Evenepoel we simply don't know enough about the high mountain climbing. Worst case scenario for Evenepoel is that he's an ATG hilly classics talent but no ATG level GT rider.

Bernal is really the one who needs to step it up next year.
 
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Simple thing to say is that all 3 are exceptional talents and the slightly different emphasis to their best disciplines makes the prospect of them all fighting GC at the same Grand Tour so mouthwatering.

Remco can and does light it up from any type of route and with his DQS team so proficient on the flat and rolling terrain they can rip up the modern rule book of how to win a 3 week race.

The questions are multi mountain stages and 3 week endurance.

Bernal is the best climber and if the route is big on altitude he has a natural advantage. He is certainly a competent TT rider and today’s course would have been decent for him at his best.

Can Bernal put enough time into Remco and Pogi on the summit finishes.

Pogi seems to have a very well rounded skill set and the confidence to back it up. Great mental strength to overcome the time loss in the crosswinds after a puncture.

His weak team is a concern and he won’t always have the advantage of the dominant GC team riding in a way that also suits him. Bonus seconds were also very beneficial to him and his punchiness is crucial.

I would not like to call who will have won more big races by the time they are all 25.

This Giro is the last really big chance for the Contador/Froome/Nibali generation to claim the top step and I would add Quintana to that.

Bold claim but I think this trio will surpass them in quality and quantity of Grand Tours.

I feel sorry for the other young GC guys who must feel like the level they need to reach to beat the big 3 is stratospheric.
 
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