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Well, well, well.
Actually, only a year ago I thought Bernal will be a multiple GT winner. Now I agree on Pogacar > Bernal. I don't know how good Evenepoel will ever be in GTs since he is still unproven but I guess Evenepoel > Bernal too.Still need to see how Remco recovers. I don’t think Bernal will win another TDF
While I also wouldn’t be surprised (or disappointed; they’re all exciting in their own way) if they manage to match Froome / Contador / Nibali, I’ll take the field.
There’s a world in which Bernal becomes the new Quintana (mythical climber who peaked early and was supposed to win a ton but didn’t), Remco never fully recovers from his injuries, Pogacar gets beaten by Roglic and Dumoulin over next couple seasons, then Wout makes his transformation and begins his domination, not to mention 10 years for new riders to enter the scene...we’ll see.
Actually, only a year ago I though Bernal will be a multiple GT winner. Now I agree on Pogacar > Bernal. I don't know how good Evenepoel will ever be in GTs since he is still unproven but I guess Evenepoel > Bernal too.
Its more about the recovery part (not from the injury but over 3 weeks) for me. There is just more uncertainty involved than with two guys who already won the TdF. BUt yes, now we have an additional factor with the injury. But I hope (and think) that he can fully recover.It will depend on his recovery, and I hope he returns to his pre crash form. I think people are forgetting how dominant Remco was before his crash.
I donot think the matchup will ever happen in practice. Full gas Contador vs Froome never happened. Either one of them was injured, out of form or crashed or mechanical.
Yes, this is certainly true. We will see a much stronger Bernal again. But after this Tour I actually think that (a) the Vuelta had the stronger field last year and (b) I fail to see where Bernal can really take time from lets say Pogacar. Maybe but only maybe on high altitude climbs but I am sceptical. Pogacar can easily gain time on Bernal in TTs and punchy finishes, for example.Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
There is unfortunately also a good chance of that.I donot think the matchup will ever happen in practice. Full gas Contador vs Froome never happened. Either one of them was injured, out of form or crashed or mechanical.
Bernal is of course still a great rider, but Pogacar is much more we’ll-rounded. We’ve seen nothing to indicate Bernal can TT like that. Think he would have been 2-3 minutes back of Pogacar today even if he was in last years form. And we’ve also seen plenty to indicate that Pogacar can climb with Bernal.Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
Exactly. I see Bernal in the Quintana role (with actually having won a Tour though).Bernal is of course still a great rider, but Pogacar is much more we’ll-rounded. We’ve seen nothing to indicate Bernal can TT like that. Think he would have been 2-3 minutes back of Pogacar today even if he was in last years form. And we’ve also seen plenty to indicate that Pogacar can climb with Bernal.
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
Think people are way too soon to say Pogacar (and Remco) are better talents than Bernal and he wont win any more Tours (not necessarily in this thread, its all over CN), but I dont think you realistically can take anything from this Tour to judge Bernals level. This was just an off-year, corona and back-problems. Hes still a prodigy and it will be very exciting in the future to watch these guys fight it out.
As things stand, I don't think it's up for debate who the best rider of three is. Things might and would probably change as they develop into their careers but yh it's currently not up for debate.
I dont think the age argument is that good either, 1,5 years old doesnt really matter. Both are great GT-riders, but Pogacar is obviously more well-rounded, so that means Bernal needs to outclimb him. Can he do that? Maybe, who knows.
last year Bernal was 22 and a half. This year Pogaca will turn 22 next week. So it's exactly a 6 months difference.Its not a question of taking something from this Tour.
Last year Bernal won the overall at 23, which is very impressive, but he failed to win any stage and I think that its clear that he benefitted from the high altitude route. That's why I think some people like Armstrong or Wiggins were too quick in saying that would win 5 times the Tour and even if he comes back strong, I think that it will be difficult for him to beat Pogačar.
Now, compare it with Pogačar. Wins the Tour while being 1.5 years younger than Bernal plus the mountain jersey and three stages and he does so while having a weaker team than Bernal in last year's Tour. Of course some may say that he benefitted from the route (perhaps a bit) or that he adapted better to this covid times, which are valid arguments but I still feel that he is more special than Bernal and will likely win more Tours and the three GT's and let's not forget that unlike Bernal this is the second time that Pogačar podiums in a Grand Tour so he already proved that this Tour win wasn't something out of the blue.
I know, Pogi should have won a little more emphatically to elevate himself to Remco's level.
Nah, I just don't think it is as clear-cut as you say.
Let's just hope that Remco gets back to full strength again. Then he can show again how he is something extra-extraordinary.
He’s never ridden a grand tour. Right now he’s some weird cross between Valverde and Simon Spilak. Wonderful rider, but let him ride a GT before we say he’s better than anyone.It will depend on his recovery, and I hope he returns to his pre crash form. I think people are forgetting how dominant Remco was before his crash.