Bernard Kohl - "Not possible..."

[Anonymous]

If it wasn't for the pesky AFLD Kohl would be riding today on a big contract and passing dope tests like they were going out if fashion. If he was cheeky he'd even be posting his passport online as an example of a clean rider.

exactly and I agree...the guy is a real slimeball...making a new career as a victim...total sludgeface...don't see much to herald here...

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean an average overall speed. I meant on flat stages, when the peloton is in cruise mode they used to go slower than they do now, that's all.

ok and thanks...still don't think it is that much of a bump on average speed since the late 60's is all...don't think it means everything...

 

[Anonymous]

and no I am not denying doping...I think probably AC is and certainly Armstrong was...and a few before...but I have a problem with guys like Kohl coming out with this crap...there are some folks I bet getting results in top ten...and this slimeball makes a new career out of giving lectures on it...please...talks about how noone will give him a job now that he is speaking the truth...come on, he brought down an entire team, that is why he won't get a job...

 

[hrotha]

and no I am not denying doping...I think probably AC is and certainly Armstrong was...and a few before...but I have a problem with guys like Kohl coming out with this crap...there are some folks I bet getting results in top ten...and this slimeball makes a new career out of giving lectures on it...please...talks about how noone will give him a job now that he is speaking the truth...come on, he brought down an entire team, that is why he won't get a job...

He shouldn't be so categorical because he can't really speak about how things are two years after 2008. Chances are they haven't changed much, at least at the top, but Kohl should be more careful about that. However, we need people like him. Don't forget that if he had decided to go with the omerta he wouldn't need a new career, he'd be riding now.

 

[Digger]

He shouldn't be so categorical because he can't really speak about how things are two years after 2008. Chances are they haven't changed much, at least at the top, but Kohl should be more careful about that. However, we need people like him. Don't forget that if he had decided to go with the omerta he wouldn't need a new career, he'd be riding now.

That's the whole point. It seems very clear to him that nothing has changed. Speeds the same and the main protagonists still the same.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

and no I am not denying doping...I think probably AC is and certainly Armstrong was...and a few before...but I have a problem with guys like Kohl coming out with this crap...there are some folks I bet getting results in top ten...and this slimeball makes a new career out of giving lectures on it...please...talks about how noone will give him a job now that he is speaking the truth...come on, he brought down an entire team, that is why he won't get a job...

What team did he bring down? Gerolsteiner had already announced it was folding, and Stefan Schumacher tested positive before Kohl did - and Rebellin at the Olympics too. Plus they took Francesco de Bonis off the road straight after his freakishly good Romandie. That team was gone way before Kohl's positive was announced.

Lotto are still in the péloton.

So unless you're referring to Elk Haus, who found it hard to retain sponsorship once Austria's hearts were broken by Kohl's +ve, I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

nah, you are right...no problem but to me this forum has become some weird rant hating all of cycling...no problem again...just making my own point about Kohl as a scumbag and I even agree with most here as via AC and certainly Strongarm...screw it...I think Kohl is a cumbag as is strong arm and ect ect...but I am sick of even trying to make a point via case to case or nuances...f###ing whatever...

 

[hrotha]

That's the whole point. It seems very clear to him that nothing has changed. Speeds the same and the main protagonists still the same.

Well, yes, but there's a difference between saying that, implying everyone dopes and letting everyone draw their own conclusions, and actually saying everyone up there (specific riders) is doped. Unless he actually knows, of course. Then by all means, call it as it is.

 

[Anonymous]

What team did he bring down? Gerolsteiner had already announced it was folding, and Stefan Schumacher tested positive before Kohl did - and Rebellin at the Olympics too. Plus they took Francesco de Bonis off the road straight after his freakishly good Romandie. That team was gone way before Kohl's positive was announced.

Lotto are still in the péloton.

So unless you're referring to Elk Haus, who found it hard to retain sponsorship once Austria's hearts were broken by Kohl's +ve, I don't know what you're talking about.

the hell with it...anyone who wants to come in on these forums and give thier opinions are so outrun by the local geeks with their attitudes...I don't give a f*ck anymore...christ, I hate dopers but it gets ridiculous to even try to give an opinion here...have at it scumbags who have a single idea even talking about doping...I agree with most of it...but you just shove the nuances out on every level and turn this into some weird little club...what was once a decent place to talk cycling has been pretty much destroyed...too bad...ack, whatever...I am just a f##cking loser who has nothing to offer your forum....no worries...I am done....

 

[Libertine Seguros]

the hell with it...anyone who wants to come in on these forums and give thier opinions are so outrun by the local geeks with their attitudes...I don't give a f*ck anymore...christ, I hate dopers but it gets ridiculous to even try to give an opinion here...have at it scumbags who have a single idea even talking about doping...I agree with most of it...but you just shove the nuances out on every level and turn this into some weird little club...what was once a decent place to talk cycling has been pretty much destroyed...too bad...ack, whatever...I am just a f##cking loser who has nothing to offer your forum....no worries...I am done....

Wait, so you offer an opinion that Kohl is scum, based on him bringing down a team. I explain why he didn't do this whilst not disagreeing with you that he's scum. You have a hissy fit and leave.

Since you wish to be able to make comments of dubious truthful value, and then not have to back them up when questioned (which is of course what debate entails), then I will claim that your response is due to 'roid rage. You can't disagree with me or give evidence to the contrary, however - I'll have a hissy fit.

 

[flicker]

Kohl is bitter and jealous. Why would he even tell the real truth if he could?

 

[Polyarmour]

Wait, so you offer an opinion that Kohl is scum, based on him bringing down a team. I explain why he didn't do this whilst not disagreeing with you that he's scum. You have a hissy fit and leave.

Since you wish to be able to make comments of dubious truthful value, and then not have to back them up when questioned (which is of course what debate entails), then I will claim that your response is due to 'roid rage. You can't disagree with me or give evidence to the contrary, however - I'll have a hissy fit.

What? now forum members are doping too? No wonder my (clean) posts have been so lack lustre.

 

[ricara]

Now there's a bright idea! PED's that will enhance postings.

Where can I get some???
How do I take them???
How much do they cost???
What is the penalty if I get popped???

I am all over this!

 

[uspostal]

Are there going to be limits on how much PED is going to be forum legal or is it as much as your body can take. If we have limits what will the sanctions be for posters going over the limit, bannings, fines, suspensions. What sanctioning body will we use, or will he invent our own.

 

[Anonymous]

In other news, water is wet.

 

[Galic Ho]

At this speed, he's right. It is impossible. You need to go back to when the peloton would ride along at 25mph, as opposed to 30; Or when Hinault and Lemond rode up Alpe d'Huez in 48 minutes, as opposed to the sub-40 norm of today.

Problem with the times from your namesake climb, is that old recordings, accurate ones do not exist. LeMond and Hinault in 1986 broke away on the previous climb. It was just those two riding. Admittedly both men professed to having VO2 max's between 92 and 94, so we know they have pedigree, but they weren't really racing anyone else. How fast would they have gone if Fignon in 1989 form turned up that day? I'd wager they'd go near 41 minutes. Incidentally that is roughly the time Evans and Kohl put in during the 2008 TdF. Sastre's time from 2008 is really fast. He was 2 minutes faster than the rest. 39'31" off the top of my head for Sastre's time. A nice blood bag explains a lot about Carlos in 2008. Look at how Carlos performs in later years. A bit older, but no slouch, but performing way under that one year in 2008. He looks cleaner in other seasons. I suspect Carlos had a little more help than they other guys had...hence why he won. It also explains his form since then. Good, but always having an off day, falling off. But lack of Schleck one and two can also account for less impressive form, to a degree. Team mates help, clean or doped.

Look at the climbs from this year. There were comparisons to previous years and the times had shrunk by almost 10 minutes on the big Pyreneen passes, compared to the times of the late 90s, early naughties. This year, it did look slower. For whatever reason, I believe the allowable doping limits have tightened. Which begs me to ask, was McQuaid right, has this year been clean? Apart from the AC Clenbuterol fiasco...how such a small sample can give you a boost is besides me, especially with the food contamination reported in that geographic zone (if he was blood doping, the test for blood doping needs to catch him, not some random asthma/inhaler ingredient)...this years Tour has no fouls. Nor last years Tour apart from Astarloza...but that a pre Tour test.

This year being somewhat cleaner explains in part why Contador looked weaker. Maybe he was sick, but this year he didn't have the numbers on Andy schleck. Or maybe nothing changed and Schleck got better, which is bad, because that kind of an improvement definitely raises the doping suspicions. Lance also looked clean. People were saying it here during the Tour. It is as if everyone was sat down and told what the limits were and not to push them...Lance also was probably playing it safe because of Floyd. Shame. He should have pushed the envelope. Guess he is smart.

Before anyone mentions AC and expert advice. Damsgaard is not an expert. He is an expert when his bank balance increases. This is old Clinic news. Damsgaard made numerous statements about blood doping and what signs to expect from a transfusion mid Tour before last years TdF. He recanted and changed his tune last year when Lance's online samples (the ones he removed but not before his team altered some values) showed anomalies. Short story, Rasmus has a price, pay him and he changes his tune and can 'bend' an interpretation for your data if you match his price. What once was bad, Lance's data, was suddenly ok. BS right there. The problem is some of the experts are dirty weasels. All bought and paid for.

As for Kohl, someone mentioned another 'most tested athlete alive.' That was the Armstrong PR machine in full swing. When Kohl was caught, Lance had not returned to cycling...he was in the motions of returing. His transparency claim with Don Catlin was being spruiked. Kohl at the time let slip his 200 tests and how he was doped during most but never caught. That is also old Clinic news. What isn't know is that it was discussed here in a very old thread that Lance pre retirement had been lucky to sit half the tests Kohl had. Kohl had been tested far more than Lance. After 2006, riders have been put through the ringer compared to the glory days. Lance's pre return (the second coming) testing criteria and scrutinisation amount to very little. He barely raced, hence he was barely tested pre 2006. Different story now that he has come back, but proper context should be noted, so people can make the distinction. Most people assume what goes on now happened a decade ago. It didn't. Lance would have failed every sample he gave a decade ago. Shows how much the testing has progressed and the control programs.

 

[Animal]

Kohl is bitter and jealous. Why would he even tell the real truth if he could?

SSDD from flicker.

Anyone who has enough of the omerta system and wants out is dismissed with the same predictable S from the apologists.

 

[ttrider]

I back Basso and Evans as clean
Basso doped in 2006 but he was so bludy good he was clearly something naturally special anyway, he was always close to lance on a superior program, doped or not 9 mins in a giro is one hell of an effort, now the peloton has cleaned up it is no surprise to me that he is winning GTs again
Evans i heard has a Vo2 max off 88 and some of the best figures ever recorded at the Australian institute of sport

As Sassi says i believe it is possiblefor both of these guys to be clean and naturaly to perform at this level, he says they are very similar in lab tests also i would bet that they are the pinacle of clean athletes right now in cycling

 

[craig1985]

Wait, so you offer an opinion that Kohl is scum, based on him bringing down a team. I explain why he didn't do this whilst not disagreeing with you that he's scum. You have a hissy fit and leave.

Since you wish to be able to make comments of dubious truthful value, and then not have to back them up when questioned (which is of course what debate entails), then I will claim that your response is due to 'roid rage. You can't disagree with me or give evidence to the contrary, however - I'll have a hissy fit.

Yeah, that was quite a bizarre rant by cash.