Best climbers in history?

[zapata]

Because, like Merckx, Hinault, Indurain etc, he was a powerful beast who was capable of beating the climbers on their own terrain. These kind of riders have never been referred to as 'climbers'. A climber has always been understood to be guy who comes into his own in the mountains, is capable of long solo rides over multiple passes, but is like a fish out of water in tts, on the flats, on cobbles etc.

Yeah, when I hear the word climber I think of someone like Piepoli or Rujano, not Ullrich or Indurain, even though the latter might on occasion outclimb the former type.

 

[LaFlorecita]

It doesn't get much better than this!

Tommy Voeckler??

 

[jordan5000]

I`m surprised Eddy isn`t getting more votes, most stage wins in the tour (mostly in the mountains) and he had huge gaps on mountain stages too.

 

[icefire]

I disagree. Climbers are riders like Fuente, Herrera, Millar etc. I don't think I've heard Armstrong referred to as a climber outside of this forum.

According to your definition, climbers are riders whose only ability is riding up the mountains but they're awful at any other discipline (riding downhill, on the flat, TT, sprint...). Climbers don't even need to be the best at climbing. They can be outclimbed by non climbers who excel at more than one discipline, being one of them... climbing!

Using this logic (which is followed by most cycling fans, I must say), I don't even understand why Contador is listed as a climber.

 

[Anonymous]

And despite being one of very very few to win the climbers jersey in all 3 tours, Herrara doesnt make the voting list, but others do. And Feunte isnt in the poll, equally strange.

My vote is for Herrara.

 

[Race Radio]

he may have been the best climber during the 7TdFs but is was not due to talent.

Nope, not his talent. Lance made the most of his ability even though his Vo2 was 10% lower then many of the greats in the sport.

A big key was his high cadence.....and the Trek. Everyone knows Trek makes the best bikes, they practically climb the mountains themselves.

Everyone know Lance was the greatest. His good friend and business partner Hein Verburggen would always talk about what a great rider Lance was.

The other riders don't have a chance because lance worked so much harder then those lazy French. He also had the best coaching. Is there a better coach in the sport then Chris Carmichael? No, of course not.

 

[Race Radio]

And despite being one of very very few to win the climbers jersey in all 3 tours, Herrara doesnt make the voting list, but others do. And Feunte isnt in the poll, equally strange.

My vote is for Herrara.

Lucho. Absolutly.

Another guy who could climb well on occasion was Fignon. Very under rated.

 

[Duartista]

According to your definition, climbers are riders whose only ability is riding up the mountains but they're awful at any other discipline (riding downhill, on the flat, TT, sprint...). Climbers don't even need to be the best at climbing. They can be outclimbed by non climbers who excel at more than one discipline, being one of them... climbing!

Using this logic (which is followed by most cycling fans, I must say), I don't even understand why Contador is listed as a climber.

I never said it was logical, and it's not my definition - rather 'common use'. It describes a certain type of rider. They don't have to be awful at everything else, but it should be clear where their specialty lies (and they can be good descenders, although they often aren't).

You are right, Contador is borderline. I would let him in on the grounds that he is quite small and changes his rhythm a lot.

 

[The Hitch]

For me, this kind of debate is more interesting if you restrict it to guys who were great climbers but not much good at anything else. If you include guys like Armstrong, Merckx, even Coppi (who was an unbelievable time trialist), it becomes too similar to 'Best GT riders in history'.

But that excludes people like Contador who is undoubtedly one of the greats and i guess we are looking at who was ultimately the best climber, not which poor tter and descender had the best climbing skills.

Besides guys like Indurain, Mousiour Chrono and Hinault all appear in the greatest gt riders of all time lists, but not here.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I know exactly what you mean. Painful summers ;-)

It is absolutely ridiculous to keep Lance out of such a list. He was the strongest climber in the field of the Tour for many years. Of course, he did not do much in the mountains outside of the Tour...

Best climbers in the time I was able to follow cycling:

Lance Armstrong
Marco Pantani
Jan Ullrich 1997 edition
Roberto Heras
Alberto Contador (this one hurts)
Michael Rasmussen 2007 edition
Andy Schleck
Ricardo Ricco (also hurts)

Why is Andy in the same list as Heras, Contador and Pantani?

 

[icefire]

But that excludes people like Contador who is undoubtedly one of the greats and i guess we are looking at who was ultimately the best climber, not which poor tter and descender had the best climbing skills.

Besides guys like Indurain, Mousiour Chrono and Hinault all appear in the greatest gt riders of all time lists, but not here.

Warning! What Indurain did in La Plagne in 1995 wasn't climbing It was an ITT

 

[mastersracer]

Easily Bahamontes - first to win mountains jersey in all three grand tours, holds record for most mountain jerseys in the Tour, won a Tour (beating Anquetil) and defines pure climber by being one of the worst descenders in history. Would wait at the top for others so he didn't have to descend alone. Sometimes his lead at the top was so great he'd stop and have ice cream waiting. Would also descend with one foot off the pedal.

 

[zapata]

I voted for Pantani. Contador is close. I don't know about guys like Bahamontes and Gaul; I've read about them in magazines, but never seen them, and that makes it hard to compare. Although I have a feeling that Contador might beat the lot, if they were all in the same race.

 

[rhubroma]

I voted for Pantani. Contador is close. I don't know about guys like Bahamontes and Gaul; I've read about them in magazines, but never seen them, and that makes it hard to compare. Although I have a feeling that Contador might beat the lot, if they were all in the same race.

Agreed. The Spaniard's acceleration might have put Marco in difficulty, who was more of a progression climber. Then again Alberto seems to fizzle out somewhat after the initial devestating surge, whereas once Marco put the pressure on he was relentless. So it's close indeed.

 

[Zweistein]

No love in this thread for Ocana. The man who put the bolts to Merckx.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I disagree. Climbers are riders like Fuente, Herrera, Millar etc. I don't think I've heard Armstrong referred to as a climber outside of this forum.

I agree, but it's Jordan's thread and his criteria.
Did you read the opening post ?

btw, good examples and Virenque would be another good one.

 

[Duartista]

But that excludes people like Contador who is undoubtedly one of the greats and i guess we are looking at who was ultimately the best climber, not which poor tter and descender had the best climbing skills.

Besides guys like Indurain, Mousiour Chrono and Hinault all appear in the greatest gt riders of all time lists, but not here.

OK. I take your point.
I'd like to throw in some lesser known names though (although not contenders for 'best ever').

The crazy Vito Taccone, who won five mountain stages (including 4 in a row) at the 1963 Giro d'Italia, and still only finished 6th.

The Spanish climbers Julian Berrendero and Federico Ezquerra (Trueba has been mentioned I think) who staged an epic battle for the KOM title in the 1936 Tour, but were nearly always caught on the descents or flat run-ins (no MTFs in those days) and lost heaps of time in the early, brutal cobbled stages. Obvously, both had their careers badly affected by war, although Berrendero went on to win a couple of Vueltas in the 1940s.

 

[Duartista]

I agree, but it's Jordan's thread and his criteria.
Did you read the opening post ?

btw, good examples and Virenque would be another good one.

No, I didn't I'm ashamed to say. Apologies.

Having done so now, I would vote Coppi using Jordan's criteria. King of the long breakaway over multiple passes.

 

[killswitch]

Easily Bahamontes - first to win mountains jersey in all three grand tours, holds record for most mountain jerseys in the Tour, won a Tour (beating Anquetil) and defines pure climber by being one of the worst descenders in history. Would wait at the top for others so he didn't have to descend alone. Sometimes his lead at the top was so great he'd stop and have ice cream waiting. Would also descend with one foot off the pedal.

+1

And there's a fun story (the reason) about his bad descending:

"He landed in a cactus bush descending the Montserra as an amateur and thereafter refused to descend mountains alone, once waiting at the top of a col in the Tour de France for other riders to arrive. He reached the top minutes before a chase group arrived, and famously passed the time eating ice cream by the side of the road."

 

[Pantani_lives]

Before 1970: Bahamontes, Gaul
70s: Ocaña, Van Impe
80s: Herrera, Delgado
90s: Pantani, Jimenez
00s: Contador, Rasmussen

 

[Anonymous]

And despite being one of very very few to win the climbers jersey in all 3 tours, Herrara doesnt make the voting list, but others do. And Feunte isnt in the poll, equally strange.

My vote is for Herrara.

Lucho. Absolutly.

Another guy who could climb well on occasion was Fignon. Very under rated.

On checking, only one person other than Herrara has won the king of the mountains in all three grand tours.

The other, Federico Bahamontes

So Lucho not being in the poll is a travesty. On that basis, Herrara and Bahamontes should be in all polls involving climbing.

Easily Bahamontes - first to win mountains jersey in all three grand tours, holds record for most mountain jerseys in the Tour, won a Tour (beating Anquetil) and defines pure climber by being one of the worst descenders in history. Would wait at the top for others so he didn't have to descend alone. Sometimes his lead at the top was so great he'd stop and have ice cream waiting. Would also descend with one foot off the pedal.

yup, and see above for the other rider to do it.

Nine mountains jerseys for Bahamontes, seven for Bartali, 8 for Van Impe, a mere 5 for Herrara.

 

[Anonymous]

Before 1970: Bahamontes, Gaul
70s: Ocaña, Van Impe
80s: Herrera, Delgado
90s: Pantani, Jimenez
00s: Contador, Rasmussen

wouldnt overly disagree with that sumattion.

Used to enjoy watching Chiappucci ride as well. He might sneak into my early 90's list. His 92 win in Sestriere was a classic.

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMnutFbptQ

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqoH6R-99N0&feature=related

 

[jordan5000]

I don't value the king of the mountains jersey as much mostly because the best climber doesn't always win it, how many times did vibrator, Armstrong and pantani win it? 0. I'm not sure if this was the case in the past but today it goes to a rider who has no chance at the gc so he goes on long breaks and picks up plenty of points. Obama is also very good, but I don't consider him top 10.

 

[Futuroscope]

Pantani

I would love to have seen a Pantani in top shape vs Armstrong.

 

[El Pistolero]

Agreed. The Spaniard's acceleration might have put Marco in difficulty, who was more of a progression climber. Then again Alberto seems to fizzle out somewhat after the initial devestating surge, whereas once Marco put the pressure on he was relentless. So it's close indeed.

That's mostly true, but Contador can also destroy people on mountains without one of his explosive accelerations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK5SfRC4Uig

One of his most impressive victories IMO