Best climbers in history?

[jordan5000]

This thread is irrelevant since the author has forgotten to add to the poll the best climber of the 80's by the name of Luis Herrera & Jose Manuel Fuente from the 70's.

I didn't forget, they just aren't worthy of consideration.

 

[jordan5000]

By the way, no one would have ever beaten '69 Merckx. Just read about that Tour, it's crazy stuff. Winning mountain stages by 8 minutes...

Again this causes me to question, why no love for Merckx?

 

[Master50]

I didn't forget, they just aren't worthy of consideration.

But Michael Rasmussen is?
Gert Jan Theunisse was a better climber than Rasmussen.
Lucco Herrera was a pure climber of great ability. In his day he was feared so much that teams made sure that flat stages were too hard for him lest he got to the mountains fresh.
Seriously how do you compare climbers of different generations? How do you compare the climbers after EPO to those before it?

 

[Master50]

Due to your insistence I looked him up on wikipedia.

His career was at a time when I was too busy with work and family to really follow cycling, (plus the fact that I lived in the US) except that I made an effort to follow the TdF.

Remind me of one attempt at listening to the radio on short waves. I was thrilled once to catch a report on cycling in the evening. That is until a neighbor turned on his vacuum cleaner 5 minutes later and that was the end of it.

If you have lived in the US you will know that anybody is allowed to make as much RF noise as they want, plus there no ground on electrical installations, so that noise carries to all neighbors through the wallplug. Plus no restrictions on how much noise appliances are allowed to emit.

I hope things have changed, but I somehow doubt it (but less need now with internet radio)

Too bad you don't know much about electrical installations. No Ground? The US requirements for grounding are much more demanding than any European code

 

[gregrowlerson]

This might be better served in having 2 lists; pre '90 and post '90, given clinic related matters. And I'm not voting given my severe lack of knowledge pre '90's! But Armstrong has to be No.1 of the modern era for his sheer consistency of the Tour climbs - his best times aren't that far off Pantani's, and I'm sure that even the most ardent fans of the Italian would aknowledge that the American was more consistent. As for Contador, well, he just doesn't have the list of memorable (or dominant) climbing performances in GT's that Armstrong has (Hautacam, Alp du'ez, Luz Ardiden, etc), IMO.

 

[jordan5000]

But Michael Rasmussen is?
Gert Jan Theunisse was a better climber than Rasmussen.
Lucco Herrera was a pure climber of great ability. In his day he was feared so much that teams made sure that flat stages were too hard for him lest he got to the mountains fresh.
Seriously how do you compare climbers of different generations? How do you compare the climbers after EPO to those before it?

Rasmussen was a two-time winner of the king of the mountains, probably would have been a third time champion in 2007 and possibly a tour champion had he not been screwed over by the UCI. For a chicken he sure is fierce and was better than Contador in 2007 IMHO.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Lance Armstrong's record in Tour MTFs is second to none during his winning streak. Wins at Sestrierre, Alpe d'Huez, Plat d'Adet, La Mongie, Plateau de Beille (x 2), Luz Ardiden, Villard de Lans plus the only two mountain time trials during that time at Chamrousse and Alpe d'Huez. Not to mention second places at Hautacam, La Mongie, Mont Ventoux and Courcheval. On top form in the mountains (ie 2000 & 2001) his explosiveness took huge amounts of time out of his GC opponents during the final climb.

Lance's climbing excellence is explained very well here.

 

[jordan5000]

This might be better served in having 2 lists; pre '90 and post '90, given clinic related matters. And I'm not voting given my severe lack of knowledge pre '90's! But Armstrong has to be No.1 of the modern era for his sheer consistency of the Tour climbs - his best times aren't that far off Pantani's, and I'm sure that even the most ardent fans of the Italian would aknowledge that the American was more consistent. As for Contador, well, he just doesn't have the list of memorable (or dominant) climbing performances in GT's that Armstrong has (Hautacam, Alp du'ez, Luz Ardiden, etc), IMO.

There is no need for a division, none of the riders I listed tested positive and therefore I assume none doped, you can say I'm putting my head into the sand but everybody is doing the same for Coppi and Merckx.

 

[The Hitch]

This might be better served in having 2 lists; pre '90 and post '90, given clinic related matters. And I'm not voting given my severe lack of knowledge pre '90's! But Armstrong has to be No.1 of the modern era for his sheer consistency of the Tour climbs - his best times aren't that far off Pantani's, and I'm sure that even the most ardent fans of the Italian would aknowledge that the American was more consistent. As for Contador, well, he just doesn't have the list of memorable (or dominant) climbing performances in GT's that Armstrong has (Hautacam, Alp du'ez, Luz Ardiden, etc), IMO.

Well Pantani in a far shorter career, won the already mentioned Alpe d huez, twice like Armstrong but with better times, won Plateau once, with a better time, won Ventoux where Armstrong did not, and won Mortirolo which Armstrong says was the hardest hes ever ridden, cracking Indurain.

Hes also won several lesser known mtfs like Les Deux Alpes, Piancavolo, Morzine Avoriaz.

So he was just as consistant as Armstrong, he just went up faster.

 

[mad black]

Well Pantani in a far shorter career, won the already mentioned Alpe d huez, twice like Armstrong but with better times, won Plateau once, with a better time, won Ventoux where Armstrong did not, and won Mortirolo which Armstrong says was the hardest hes ever ridden, cracking Indurain.

Hes also won several lesser known mtfs like Les Deux Alpes, Piancavolo, Morzine Avoriaz.

So he was just as consistant as Armstrong, he just went up faster.

Wow! Ignorance is bliss. Ventoux was gifted to Pantani by Armstrong who was clearly dominating him that day.

 

[robertocarlos]

Wow! Ignorance is bliss. Ventoux was gifted to Pantani by Armstrong who was clearly dominating him that day.

lol
both bonked at the end, but pantani had a little bit more.

 

[robertocarlos]

i never witnessed bahamontes but what i have heard about the ice cream incident makes him sound superhuman when it came to climbing.

 

[Le breton]

The US requirements for grounding are much more demanding than any European code

Ha, that explains why they don't have them (grounds in US home plugs)

 

[robertocarlos]

Ha, that explains why they don't have them (grounds in US home plugs)

most low power devices that are sold in the us are not grounded, but most houses have grounded outlets as the larger appliances are always grounded, so are pc, tv, mricrowave ovens, vacums etc.

 

[Le breton]

..........the larger appliances are always grounded, so are pc, tv, mricrowave ovens, vacums etc.

Glad to see that some progress was made in the last 30 years.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Best climber? Has to be Sagan. Doing wheelie on Angliru:

 

[Maxiton]

Wow! Ignorance is bliss. Ventoux was gifted to Pantani by Armstrong who was clearly dominating him that day.

lol
both bonked at the end, but pantani had a little bit more.

+1. Seriously. Watch that stage sometime. Armstrong clearly had nothing left and couldn't get past Pantani. He came up with "Gift to Elefantino" just to minimize his loss and degrade Pantani's win.

As for best climbers, I don't really feel qualified to judge, having not seen many (most) of these riders. I guess based on my limited knowledge I'd include Coppi and Bartali for sure.

I think we have to count Merckx, even though he wasn't a climbing specialist, per se.

Unless our definition of "climber" is very narrow indeed, I don't see how we can avoid listing Pantani. And Armstrong.

In the contemporary era Contador and Rassmussen deserve special mention.

When it comes to climbers, though, the image that sticks in my mind is that of Bahamontes eating ice cream at the top of a col, waiting for his mates there because he is afraid to descend alone. I have no idea if he can truly be called the very best climber, bar none, but he certainly must have been fantastic.

 

[McLovin]

I voted for Bahamontes from stories (i guess no one saw him as there was no live transmison back then).
I see Contador is no. 1 but he never really had a big day in mountains, with big gaps. The Verbier stage is his most famous victory but he only put I think one minute to the rest. Armstrong almost put that time gap on Ullrich( maybe on his best form ever) in the last two km of Ax-Trois-Domaines in 2001. Not to mention his Hautacam and Alpe d'Huez (2001). Then we have big performance of Mayo on Ventoux - Dauphine (it's true that 3 weeks later he got droped on a 3'rd cat. climb), i don't remeber alberto doing something similar. I think Alberto needs a performance like that, in a strong field and IN THE TOUR

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Rasmussen was a two-time winner of the king of the mountains, probably would have been a third time champion in 2007 and possibly a tour champion had he not been screwed over by the UCI. For a chicken he sure is fierce and was better than Contador in 2007 IMHO.

Fuente was a FOUR-time winner of the King of the Mountains at the Giro and a two-time Vuelta winner and one-time King of the Mountains. He won two mountain stages of the Tour and podiumed it overall. He amassed 8 Giro stages, 2 Tour stages, and 3 Vuelta stages, each and every one in mountain stages. Many of which where he would disappear on the third or fourth mountain from home and never be seen again.

He amassed all this in a heyday which lasted only four years due to health problems, against a field including Merckx, Gimondi, van Impe, Ocaña and Agostinho, and despite not being able to descend or time trial to save his life.

If winning two polka dot jerseys is enough to include Michael Rasmussen, then it is a pure travesty not to include Fuente.

 

[greenedge]

This thread is still going??? Most polls should just be a poll.

I'm joking and it's a nice thread. Also seeing your conclusions/ arguments.

 

[Angliru]

There is nothing like enough love for José Manuel Fuente in this thread. In fact, this lack of love angers me.

Well here's some love. Fuente is one of my all time fav's after reading extensively books on the history of the Vuelta and the Tour, he was a true beast in the mountains, a rider that actually struck fear into the hearts of greats like Eddie Merckx and Luis Ocana. I'm awaiting delivery on a history of the Giro that will give me even more insight into this great champion. A truly unappreciated talent!

 

[Angliru]

I didn't forget, they just aren't worthy of consideration.

...and Michael Rassmussen is??? His near win in 2007 can be attributed to his "opponents" thinking he was doing his usual stick of chasing the points for the KOM jersey, not seriously pursuing the overall. He was given a little rope, this with the expectation that he would lose time in all eventuality, especially in the ITT's. Of course his "miraculous" improvement against the clock and his time gained in what was thought to be the pursuit of the KOM classification put him at the top of the gc. The rest is history.
If Fuente and Herrera aren't worthy of consideration in your opinion then you should really brush up on your cycling history as also evidenced by your omission of Lucien Van Impe. I'm surprised that you don't have Richard Virenque up there and I don't mean that in a good way (Hated him!).

 

[Indurrey]

Easily Bahamontes - first to win mountains jersey in all three grand tours, holds record for most mountain jerseys in the Tour, won a Tour (beating Anquetil) and defines pure climber by being one of the worst descenders in history. Would wait at the top for others so he didn't have to descend alone. Sometimes his lead at the top was so great he'd stop and have ice cream waiting. Would also descend with one foot off the pedal.

Logged in just mention the ice cream. My uncle still talks about him in total awe.

 

[Master50]

Ha, that explains why they don't have them (grounds in US home plugs)

I have been in the electrical industry for 30 years and all plugs have ground wires attached since the 60s. In fact just like French plugs they have a ground and a grounded current carrying wire at every outlet.As for you hearing electric motors on your ham set that is due to lack of shielding on the motors not a lack of grounding. European equipment is no better at shielding than North Am equipment.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well here's some love. Fuente is one of my all time fav's after reading extensively books on the history of the Vuelta and the Tour, he was a true beast in the mountains, a rider that actually struck fear into the hearts of greats like Eddie Merckx and Luis Ocana. I'm awaiting delivery on a history of the Giro that will give me even more insight into this great champion. A truly unappreciated talent!

Thank you. My anger mildens.