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- Mar 12, 2009
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insideout leadout said:If Voeckler is alone to the finish...he did something right...he attacked. Attacking is a winning weapon too just ask Gilbert.
Fedrigo and Casar can sprint at least as good as Pozzato. Winning at TDF is very hard and they've done it a couple of times in small sprints.
Attacking in itself is not a winning weapon. Winning by an attack is what I call a hard earned victory. Voeckler is very good at that though.
A weapon needs to be a reliable way of winning and attacking by itself is very random unless you are the type of rider who is explosive in the mountains in which case you can reliably attack away from other riders without the randomness factor.
Based on ingsve's original definition it has to be Ivan Basso. Not a pure climber, not a time trialist (unless you compare to this year Vuelta's Spanish contingent), no sprint whatsoever. While sometimes he is the best climber of the bunch, he can't attack at all. Even Cadel Evans is more explosive. Instead, he has to slowly grind down his opponents, but only once after his return he was able to do so (Zoncolan in this year's Giro), not counting another minor race under the rain in his hometown.
- Sep 8, 2009
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Jan the Man said:
man i think he's the opposite.i mean...he used to win races even in the casino years.so definitely not.
my pick is van den broeck.
Schleck Major.
Can't climb with the best, hasn't got a sprint and doesn't seem to do hills as well as he used to.
Top 5 GC, top 5 Ardennes, only wins if his bro' gifts it to him.
Can't climb with the best, hasn't got a sprint and doesn't seem to do hills as well as he used to.
Top 5 GC, top 5 Ardennes, only wins if his bro' gifts it to him.
ingsve said:
Random? I can say exactly the same about sprinting “unless you are the type of rider who is explosive”. There are two ways of winning in cycling, if you are fast you sprint and if you are strong you attack. If you are neither but smart you could go either way but still come up on top just by timing your efforts to perfection.
As an example….Voeckler’s win by attack in Quebec wasn’t hard earned or random, his attack was just well timed. Im not saying it’s the most reliable way of winning but if you are good at it then it becomes an advantage which can lead to victory in a way that is not random by any means.
Perhaps I just misunderstood this whole weapon thing, but a sprint or an attack are being fired when you pull the trigger of a weapon loaded with either fast or strong legs. If you then aim right you could win the race.
Szymd? got to be one of the fastest climbers around and yet has one only once? Albeit on Ventoux...
- Feb 25, 2010
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- Jan 11, 2010
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No, he's a one trick pony: he can force a selection at the base of a climb. He's found himself a niche, but when he gets to ride for himself, he's mostly unspectacular.kuat2770 said:
- Feb 20, 2010
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theyoungest said:
When does he get to ride for himself? He rides for himself at the Tour de Pologne, which he's totally not suited for, cos it's his home race. Elsewhere, close to never. When Valverde had to practically stop to let him past to win on Ventoux, he said that he got a bit overexcited and messed it up cos he isn't used to working for himself. He's one of those guys who doesn't really want to be more than a worker ant.
I agree that he doesnt want to be more than a slave. But he was only 62 seconds slower than Basso on the ITT to Kronoplatz in this years Giro. He also usually makes it up at least 3/4ths of the climb before pulling off. In the dauphine libere he also did pretty well, he was there with Contador and Brakovic until the end. I dont think he could win a GT but I think if he was riding for himself he could do well 1 week stage races... But no killer kick, or mindset or sprint... I make that no "winning weapon".
- Jun 14, 2010
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Szmyd does get to ride for himself at the Duaphine, but this year that was only after he killed himself at the Giro. The Kronplatz tt was impressive considering his orders were to save himself for the Passo. Judging by his performance on it when it came round 2 stages later, he saved himself quite well.
Also, while he was already out of it by then, he would have come slightly closer to Conti and Janez on Alpe had a motorbike not bizzarely driven right in to his path, and stopped, forcing him to break, turn back and go round the bike.
But climbing is his weapon. And tbf its the only thing he can do. Im surprised he managed to hold on to Liqui in the ttt. Definately a guy with a weapon.
Also, while he was already out of it by then, he would have come slightly closer to Conti and Janez on Alpe had a motorbike not bizzarely driven right in to his path, and stopped, forcing him to break, turn back and go round the bike.
But climbing is his weapon. And tbf its the only thing he can do. Im surprised he managed to hold on to Liqui in the ttt. Definately a guy with a weapon.
- Jun 7, 2010
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Kolobnev? Often close in the major races yet has only 6 wins in his career.
Sastre also has about 15(?) top-10 finishes in Grand Tours yet only has 8 wins
Sastre also has about 15(?) top-10 finishes in Grand Tours yet only has 8 wins
- Jan 11, 2010
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Apparently you haven't watched the last edition. It was a climbers race. And Szmyd rode himself into the top-10, but like I said, fairly unspectacularly. Or actually, make that: completely invisibly.Libertine Seguros said:
- Mar 19, 2009
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I don't think guys like Evans and Kreuz qualify at all. They both TT and climb too well. Same with guys like Hushovd, Vino and Schleck - they have strong weapons, imo.
When I first read the post title, the guys who immediately came to mind were Voeckler, Voigt, and Flecha.
Other possible nominees:
Ballan
Fédrigo
Barredo
When I first read the post title, the guys who immediately came to mind were Voeckler, Voigt, and Flecha.
Other possible nominees:
Ballan
Fédrigo
Barredo
- Feb 20, 2010
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theyoungest said:
He rode himself into the top 10 in the 2009 Tour de Pologne too. Yes, it was more climbery than normal (though when coterminous with Portugal and Burgos still not especially climby), but the climbs weren't really long enough for Szmyd to do any damage had he tried. It was more a race for the likes of Rutkiewicz than Szmyd or Niemiec.
Altitude said:
Was making a list of names and noted that they were contenders at the tour of california.
Edit: possibly true of many GC racers
People are suggesting VDB2 and Hesjdal, don't they need some wins first before you call them winners without a weapon?
Uhh, naming guys who have won the worlds...they are not without a weapon.
Those who should win more: Jens Voight, Flecha.
Those who should win more: Jens Voight, Flecha.
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