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I loved the 2010 one, thrilling to watch. Also liked the battle between Di Luca and Menchov in 09.
from what i saw live:
1998: most thrilling GC battle ever. Pantani distancing zulle heavily on fedaia. then tonkkov pantani mano a mano in enbelievable montecampione mountain sprint. plus last chrono he was flying in rosa.
2005: first impression of robo basso in passo duran. then he dies in crazy high mountain staige to livigno. epic gibo,rujano,di luca in finestre and savoldelli fighting back.
2010: strade bianche caos, loyal vincenzo helping basso, rebirth of basso after his ban in hard zoncolan attak, arroyo long in rosa, nice team action (szmyd) in mortirolo/aprica stage to gain significant GC gaps.
2016: vincenzo fighting back against heartless pushing media pressuring him from day 1.
2012: nice route. should v been puritos one but there were no boni
he deserved it
1998: most thrilling GC battle ever. Pantani distancing zulle heavily on fedaia. then tonkkov pantani mano a mano in enbelievable montecampione mountain sprint. plus last chrono he was flying in rosa.
2005: first impression of robo basso in passo duran. then he dies in crazy high mountain staige to livigno. epic gibo,rujano,di luca in finestre and savoldelli fighting back.
2010: strade bianche caos, loyal vincenzo helping basso, rebirth of basso after his ban in hard zoncolan attak, arroyo long in rosa, nice team action (szmyd) in mortirolo/aprica stage to gain significant GC gaps.
2016: vincenzo fighting back against heartless pushing media pressuring him from day 1.
2012: nice route. should v been puritos one but there were no boni
he deserved it
Re: Re:
"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
Tonton said:
"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
2006 disgusted me from it actually. Never watched again afterwards. Until 2005 it was quite nice for GT standard.
Re: Re:
Cadel Evans is the prototype of the GT rider that enhances racing: he was an excellent time triallist and a very good climber, albeit not among the very best. And his team support was rather weak, which is always a plus.gregrowlerson said:Tonton said:
"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
Re: Re:
It comes down to the no team support.
Put froome in an awful team and GT's with him will be great as well.
Alexandre B. said:Cadel Evans is the prototype of the GT rider that enhances racing: he was an excellent time triallist and a very good climber, albeit not among the very best. And his team support was rather weak, which is always a plus.gregrowlerson said:Tonton said:
"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
It comes down to the no team support.
Put froome in an awful team and GT's with him will be great as well.
Re: Re:
Froome is among the very best climbers, though. Evans was a level behind.Kwibus said:Alexandre B. said:Cadel Evans is the prototype of the GT rider that enhances racing: he was an excellent time triallist and a very good climber, albeit not among the very best. And his team support was rather weak, which is always a plus.gregrowlerson said:"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
It comes down to the no team support.
Put froome in an awful team and GT's with him will be great as well.
I recently watched back all the giro(s) from 1999 to 2007 and I must say my favorite one was 2005. The GC battle really was really great : as close and indecisive as you want it to be, and up until the very end you would think the falco would lose the race.
But of course the giro with the best winner was 2004
But of course the giro with the best winner was 2004
The 2005 Giro was probably the most exciting GT I've watched.
The 1998 Giro was great, but, actually, the '99 edition was even better until Pantani was kicked out. That one had the Oropa climb where Pantani had a mechanical at the bottom and then proceeded to pass everyone on the way up and take the stage. The 2000 Giro was also very good, with it all coming down to a time trial, where Franky Big House blew up and Stefano grabbed the Maglia Rosa for good. Plus The Cheetah getting the better of Cipo in the sprints.
The 1998 Giro was great, but, actually, the '99 edition was even better until Pantani was kicked out. That one had the Oropa climb where Pantani had a mechanical at the bottom and then proceeded to pass everyone on the way up and take the stage. The 2000 Giro was also very good, with it all coming down to a time trial, where Franky Big House blew up and Stefano grabbed the Maglia Rosa for good. Plus The Cheetah getting the better of Cipo in the sprints.
2010 Giro was very good. No surprise that Evans featured in many of the good GTs. I am glad he had at least one GT win on his CV but it probably should have been more but in the 2010 Giro Basso was on another level. Evans will still be remembered for his epic win on the Montalcino stage.
I think the 1998 Giro was much better than the 1999 edition. 1999 simply had Pantani trouncing everyone, while 1998 had an amazing two-week three-way battle between Pantani, Zülle and Bartoli, then one equally amazing battle between Pantani, Zülle and Tonkov.
Plus Camenzind on fire!
Plus Camenzind on fire!
Re: Re:
Never had a dominant team to grind out GTS, had to defend some fairly decent TT results in the mountains. everyone attacked him hard because of the lack of team and he would grind his way back up a lot of the times
gregrowlerson said:Tonton said:
"15 - Ivan Basso grinds everybody to dust on Monte Zoncolan. Evans unexpectedly stays with him too long going into the red then blows up."
But all of those full stage GT analysis that LS did were gold.
By the way, why is/was it that so many of the best GT's of the last dozen years, all involved Cadel Evans (at one point or another) being in contention for the overall victory? Compare the collection of the '06, '07, '08, '10', '11 Tours (was he really ever in contention in '09 and '12?), plus the '09 Vuelta and '10 and '13 Giro's - vs. all of the rest, and for some reason Cadel GT's come way out in front.
Never had a dominant team to grind out GTS, had to defend some fairly decent TT results in the mountains. everyone attacked him hard because of the lack of team and he would grind his way back up a lot of the times
Re:
Pantani was in the lead with all time trialing done in 1999. Hardly the most exciting race when the best moment of the race was not even shown on TV IIRC.
And I suppose 1998 was good, but mostly because of Tonkov putting up a surprisingly good fight in the last 2 mountain stages as I really thought that Pantani was going to romp away after the Val Gardena stage
Was 2000 very good? I remember the Gavia stage being pretty bad and Pratonevoso ending up in a small group sprint (not the hardest climb, but with only 2 road stage MTFs I remember that I was expecting more). Anemic route + some not particularly aggressive racing and it's not really surprising that an hour long >1000 climbing meters ITT was going to be decisive.
chiocciolis_calves said:
Pantani was in the lead with all time trialing done in 1999. Hardly the most exciting race when the best moment of the race was not even shown on TV IIRC.
And I suppose 1998 was good, but mostly because of Tonkov putting up a surprisingly good fight in the last 2 mountain stages as I really thought that Pantani was going to romp away after the Val Gardena stage
Was 2000 very good? I remember the Gavia stage being pretty bad and Pratonevoso ending up in a small group sprint (not the hardest climb, but with only 2 road stage MTFs I remember that I was expecting more). Anemic route + some not particularly aggressive racing and it's not really surprising that an hour long >1000 climbing meters ITT was going to be decisive.
Re: Re:
Yes...how in the world could a race be exciting if one rider has led the whole way? After all, an Indurain-dominated Tour views just like a Pantani-led Giro, yes?
You "suppose 1998 was good?" I'll bet you're the life of the party, aren't you?
roundabout said:
Yes...how in the world could a race be exciting if one rider has led the whole way? After all, an Indurain-dominated Tour views just like a Pantani-led Giro, yes?
You "suppose 1998 was good?" I'll bet you're the life of the party, aren't you?
Re:
Another one! The same logic that told people that the 2010 Tour was scintillating! Who could be more exciting than Andy Schleck???
hrotha said:
Another one! The same logic that told people that the 2010 Tour was scintillating! Who could be more exciting than Andy Schleck???
What the hell are you on about? The 1998 Giro didn't merely have a "close race", it had a close race with some of the best riders at the time giving their all and being super aggressive. It wasn't at all like Andy and Contador holding hands at the 2010 Tour.
Re:
Ah, so closeness of a race does not necessarily equal excitement, just as one racer leading for most of the race, even all of the race, does not necessarily equal an unexciting race.
The '99 Giro was a tremendous race prior to Pantani's ejection for precisely the reason that you cite at the end of your second sentence. Even more precisely: Pantani was at his most aggressive and at his strongest in the '99 edition.
hrotha said:
Ah, so closeness of a race does not necessarily equal excitement, just as one racer leading for most of the race, even all of the race, does not necessarily equal an unexciting race.
The '99 Giro was a tremendous race prior to Pantani's ejection for precisely the reason that you cite at the end of your second sentence. Even more precisely: Pantani was at his most aggressive and at his strongest in the '99 edition.
A close race is not automatically better (many Vueltas and some recent Tours have been super close but incredibly tedious), but it is a positive factor. If you have super aggressive racing AND a close race, that's better than just having super aggressive racing. Pantani was certainly at his strongest in 1999, but I don't think he was significantly more aggressive (if at all) than in 1998. Plus, there's other riders aside from Pantani who also have an impact on the race, you know that, right?
Re: Re:
GEORGE: I loved her Jerry, I loved her.
JERRY: No, you didn't.
GEORGE: And she loved me. Hoo, ho, she really did.
JERRY: No she didn't.
GEORGE: What am I going to do now? I can't live without Susan. I gotta get her back. How? How, am I gonna get her back?
ELAINE: [OC] Not only didn't you love her, you didn't even like her.
GEORGE: Who says?
ELAINE: You did.
GEORGE: Ah, ...A beautiful successful intelligent woman's in love with me and I throw it all away. uh oh boy. Now I'll spend the rest of my life living alone. I'll sit in my disgusting little apartment watching basketball games, eating Chinese take out. Walking around with no underwear. Because I'm too lazy to do a laundry.
JERRY: You walk around with no underwear?
GEORGE: Yeah, what do you do when you run out of laundry?
JERRY: I do a wash.
GEORGE: Who am I going to meet who is better than her? No one, Jerry. No one's better than her.
JERRY: When you were with her you said you couldn't stand her.
GEORGE: I loved her!
JERRY: You said goin up the steps of her apartment was like being taken to a cell.
GEORGE: I would give anything to be going up those stairs again.
This Seinfeld scene and George's feelings towards Susan is how I feel that the forum's feelings are about Andy Schleck
chiocciolis_calves said:
GEORGE: I loved her Jerry, I loved her.
JERRY: No, you didn't.
GEORGE: And she loved me. Hoo, ho, she really did.
JERRY: No she didn't.
GEORGE: What am I going to do now? I can't live without Susan. I gotta get her back. How? How, am I gonna get her back?
ELAINE: [OC] Not only didn't you love her, you didn't even like her.
GEORGE: Who says?
ELAINE: You did.
GEORGE: Ah, ...A beautiful successful intelligent woman's in love with me and I throw it all away. uh oh boy. Now I'll spend the rest of my life living alone. I'll sit in my disgusting little apartment watching basketball games, eating Chinese take out. Walking around with no underwear. Because I'm too lazy to do a laundry.
JERRY: You walk around with no underwear?
GEORGE: Yeah, what do you do when you run out of laundry?
JERRY: I do a wash.
GEORGE: Who am I going to meet who is better than her? No one, Jerry. No one's better than her.
JERRY: When you were with her you said you couldn't stand her.
GEORGE: I loved her!
JERRY: You said goin up the steps of her apartment was like being taken to a cell.
GEORGE: I would give anything to be going up those stairs again.
This Seinfeld scene and George's feelings towards Susan is how I feel that the forum's feelings are about Andy Schleck
This is the right oportunaty to ask if anyone has records of the mountain stages in the 90's that can be uploaded. Thank you.
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