Best GT of 2015

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Can someone list all the exciting things that happened in the Tour? All I remember is

Prologue, Dennis takes yellow
Windy stage, good action
Mur de Huy, yellow jersey crashes out
Cobbles sucked, apart from Martin winning
Havre, yellow jersey crashes out
Couple of sprints
Mur de Bretagne, which was less exciting than any of the Vuelta uphill finishes
TTT on a ridiculous moment in the race
PSM, got the max action the stage could get with 8km
Quintana and Froome holding hands for the rest oif the pyrenees stages.
Sagan gets a bunch of second places
Froome and Quintana hold some more hands
Nibali wins a stage, whilst Quintana and Froome hold hands until 5km to go
Quintana attacks Froome when the hardest part of the CdF is over, drops him on AdH but its too late

Most of the things I listed are actually negative or non-events here

Gimme a break, someone who writes that can't be taken seriously.

Also Mende was really a great stage with GC action and a great duel between the breakaway riders. There were so few boring stages in the tour this year.

I think many of us simply thought the gc was over after psm and I think in hindsight we were right.

Though the final margin of 1 min or whatever it was may look thin, Quintana only actually got the gc that close after all the mountains and essentially the race were over. I don't think there was a single moment after the first mountain stage that froomes odds of winning were less than 95%

Quintana showed absolutely nothing until it was too late that it could be an interesting gc. For example in the 13 vuelta, Nibali at one stage had a good lead over Horner and was the favourite. But there was intrigue because he had taken time on Nibali earlier so there was a chance Horner could take back time. Quintana got wooped by froome on psm, lost time on flat, and historically got wooped last time by froome as well. So there was no reason to give Quintana the benefit of the doubt that he could take back the time.
And he didnt.

In football (soccer) terms it was like a match where team a is the favourite and takes a 4-0 lead. Then in the last 5 minutes team b scores 2 goals. Which makes the final score of 4-2 look close. In reality though the winner was never in doubt.

As for the non gc action being good, I'm sure it was. Personally for me, in gcs especially the tdf, it's only the gc that can make stages truly great or bad.

Even something like 2011 sestrieres where kiri had a legendary emotional solo, was still to me a massive damp squib because contadors gc lead wasn't in doubt and no one made any sort of push for the podium either.

 

[Campervan man]

Re: Re:

Can someone list all the exciting things that happened in the Tour? All I remember is

Prologue, Dennis takes yellow
Windy stage, good action
Mur de Huy, yellow jersey crashes out
Cobbles sucked, apart from Martin winning
Havre, yellow jersey crashes out
Couple of sprints
Mur de Bretagne, which was less exciting than any of the Vuelta uphill finishes
TTT on a ridiculous moment in the race
PSM, got the max action the stage could get with 8km
Quintana and Froome holding hands for the rest oif the pyrenees stages.
Sagan gets a bunch of second places
Froome and Quintana hold some more hands
Nibali wins a stage, whilst Quintana and Froome hold hands until 5km to go
Quintana attacks Froome when the hardest part of the CdF is over, drops him on AdH but its too late

Most of the things I listed are actually negative or non-events here

Gimme a break, someone who writes that can't be taken seriously.

Also Mende was really a great stage with GC action and a great duel between the breakaway riders. There were so few boring stages in the tour this year.

I think many of us simply thought the gc was over after psm and I think in hindsight we were right.

Though the final margin of 1 min or whatever it was may look thin, Quintana only actually got the gc that close after all the mountains and essentially the race were over. I don't think there was a single moment after the first mountain stage that froomes odds of winning were less than 95%

Quintana showed absolutely nothing until it was too late that it could be an interesting gc. For example in the 13 vuelta, Nibali at one stage had a good lead over Horner and was the favourite. But there was intrigue because he had taken time on Nibali earlier so there was a chance Horner could take back time. Quintana got wooped by froome on psm, lost time on flat, and historically got wooped last time by froome as well. So there was no reason to give Quintana the benefit of the doubt that he could take back the time.
And he didnt.

In football (soccer) terms it was like a match where team a is the favourite and takes a 4-0 lead. Then in the last 5 minutes team b scores 2 goals. Which makes the final score of 4-2 look close. In reality though the winner was never in doubt.

As for the non gc action being good, I'm sure it was. Personally for me, in gcs especially the tdf, it's only the gc that can make stages truly great or bad.

Even something like 2011 sestrieres where kiri had a legendary emotional solo, was still to me a massive damp squib because contadors gc lead wasn't in doubt and no one made any sort of push for the podium either.

I remember thinking after psm that the Tour was over GC wise, before I set off and went to the final 8/9 stages. I was lucky in that I went to the Giro and Tour and the Giro was more exciting live for me. I think the Tour really needs to shape up if they want a great race again. The Vuelta comes second although I'm getting frustrated with the GC waiting for the last 2 km mountain sprints.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I felt much the same way about the Giro GC and Contador. From an analytic perspective, that is probably a fair assessment of the Tour GC, but watching Quintana finally break SKY on the Alpe made it seem like a Man City 2012-type miracle was possible. I stopped rooting for individual riders once I learned what Armstrong was really about, so a good part of the appeal for me is in the day to day racing providing me something interesting to watch in the evening after work. This edition had a lot of interesting finishes. I wouldn't fault anybody for preferring the other GTs, because as I stated above, all of them this year were above average IMO.

 

[Escarabajo]

I liked them all. I only have issues with La Vuelta 1 mountain stages, like they always do. It drives me crazy.

 

[Escarabajo]

If you guys talk only about the GC perspective Giro was just as boring as the Tour. In that case Vuelta was the best. Depends on how people grade it. If they grade other things then they all had good things. Otherwise, like I said, Vuelta was the best.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Can someone list all the exciting things that happened in the Tour? All I remember is

Prologue, Dennis takes yellow
Windy stage, good action
Mur de Huy, yellow jersey crashes out
Cobbles sucked, apart from Martin winning
Havre, yellow jersey crashes out
Couple of sprints
Mur de Bretagne, which was less exciting than any of the Vuelta uphill finishes
TTT on a ridiculous moment in the race
PSM, got the max action the stage could get with 8km
Quintana and Froome holding hands for the rest oif the pyrenees stages.
Sagan gets a bunch of second places
Froome and Quintana hold some more hands
Nibali wins a stage, whilst Quintana and Froome hold hands until 5km to go
Quintana attacks Froome when the hardest part of the CdF is over, drops him on AdH but its too late

Most of the things I listed are actually negative or non-events here

Gimme a break, someone who writes that can't be taken seriously.

Also Mende was really a great stage with GC action and a great duel between the breakaway riders. There were so few boring stages in the tour this year.

I think many of us simply thought the gc was over after psm and I think in hindsight we were right.

Though the final margin of 1 min or whatever it was may look thin, Quintana only actually got the gc that close after all the mountains and essentially the race were over. I don't think there was a single moment after the first mountain stage that froomes odds of winning were less than 95%

Quintana showed absolutely nothing until it was too late that it could be an interesting gc. For example in the 13 vuelta, Nibali at one stage had a good lead over Horner and was the favourite. But there was intrigue because he had taken time on Nibali earlier so there was a chance Horner could take back time. Quintana got wooped by froome on psm, lost time on flat, and historically got wooped last time by froome as well. So there was no reason to give Quintana the benefit of the doubt that he could take back the time.
And he didnt.

In football (soccer) terms it was like a match where team a is the favourite and takes a 4-0 lead. Then in the last 5 minutes team b scores 2 goals. Which makes the final score of 4-2 look close. In reality though the winner was never in doubt.

As for the non gc action being good, I'm sure it was. Personally for me, in gcs especially the tdf, it's only the gc that can make stages truly great or bad.

Even something like 2011 sestrieres where kiri had a legendary emotional solo, was still to me a massive damp squib because contadors gc lead wasn't in doubt and no one made any sort of push for the podium either.

I don't think you watched the tour, Because I saw Froome hanging on for dear life, sucking the wheel of Thomas and on more than one occasion Thomas had to ease back because froome could not follow when he upped the tempo. The last mountain stage Froome was F%%%%d. If Movie were more aggressive Quintana would have and should have won the tour. In the end the wind split was the difference. Without it Froome would have lost.

Vuelta and Aru has been my Fav GT. Astana and Aru gave everything and it was great to see the best rider Win.

 

["Jeff"]

I agree Ray, one more mountain stage and Froome might have lost.

Though, the stage to PSM was a bummer. Too many times we have seen that stuff in the Tour the last 15 years. The fact that the supposed winner blows everyone away in the 1st mountain stage.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Giro was by far the best. The Vuelta I didn't really care about because of the participants, while the Tour was destroyed by Piti's destructive racing.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2x31bmkt]I agree Ray, one more mountain stage and Froome might have lost.

Though, the stage to PSM was a bummer. Too many times we have seen that stuff in the Tour the last 15 years. The fact that the supposed winner blows everyone away in the 1st mountain stage.[/quote]

Yet had there been a MTF in the first week where Froome was at his strongest he'd have taken another huge chunk of time.

Vuelta, Giro, Tour for me, although I thought even the Tour was ok this year.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Giro was by far the best. The Vuelta I didn't really care about because of the participants, while the Tour was destroyed by Piti's destructive racing.

Seriously? Most of the top contenders from both the Tour and Giro were there. Granted, we lost Froome, Nibali, and Sagan early.

 

[hfer07]

I'll post my verdict in a month I still fresh memories on La Vuelta-which has been superb and therefore couldn't make a fair/balance statement compared to the others. One thing is sure- Le Tour is last on my book

 

[Red Rick]

Dammit, forgot to put ToC in there

 

[42x16ss]

Giro had the best racing overall, IMO. So many stages where the action was on right from the gun, then there was Landa's showing, Contador on the Mortirolo and Aru coming back from the dead in the last mountain stages. The GC wasn't too close in the end but the racing itself was brilliant.

Vuelta had the best GC battle - yet again - but some of the racing was a little conservative and the contenders nearly got what they deserved for it with Dumoulin almost hanging on for the win. Some good battles though and some nice surprise winners too.

Tour was just stale. SO conservative, I think that the last time true GC contenders threw caution to the wind and made something happen themselves at the Tour was with Schleck, Sanchez and Contador in 2011. After the end of the first week you just knew that if Froome won the first MTF with a decent gap the race was over, his lead was already so big. Then nobody was willing to risk it all to try and get time back. Sadly, the race hasn't had it as a spectacle for a while now as far as I'm concerned and IMO the sport is worse off for it, as the attitudes developed there are infiltrating too many other races.

 

[skidmark]

I think it was the best year for GTs since 2011, and the three were the closest to each other in quality that they've been in years too. Of course the Giro usually is better - I'm not a race design kind of guy, but it definitely seems to me like Italy simply has such a rich landscape that getting a sweet parcours for the race is just easier than in France and Spain. I'm sure it's true that each of those places could choose better parcours from what they have, but it feels to me that you could just drop stages randomly in Italy and you'd probably end up with something great.

The Giro also saw the incredible tactic that I've never seen before of a team trying to tire out a rider for a future event. I remember when it dawned on me that Astana was making it hard in order to soften Contador for the Tour, and kind of appreciated it in a diabolical way, but also realized that it would discourage anyone ever from trying the increasingly difficult task Contador was trying to do. Modern racing, sigh.

I am also struck, reflecting back, how great it was that in each of the 3 GTs, the leader going into the last mountain stage wasn't the strongest rider in the race anymore. There was a good 5 minute period where I was like 'wait - could Contador ACTUALLY lose the Giro right now?' And although I never quite got there with Froome/Quintana, if his lead had kept increasing and was, say, 20 seconds more with 3k to go, I might have gotten there. And then of course the last stage of the Vuelta, where Aru attacked and dropped the leader of a GT 2 mountains away from the finish - for the second time this year! And that GC battle was beautiful, how Dumoulin was acting like Purito 2012 in the two days prior to stage 20, and how a 20-second gap became a 9-second gap on the descent, and then it was just suddenly over for TD. It was a really near thing, and that was the only way it could have worked - strong team vs. weak team, strong climber vs. never-before-defined-as-mountain-climber, guys in break on strong team dropping back to pull at a crucial point to overcome the big engine of the chaser.

The Vuelta actually seems like the most exciting GT for me, thinking about it right after it has happened. I love the wonky unpredictability of form and the long season, and how these mega-favourites show up every year and then don't do anything or crash out, and how new guys get a chance to break through, both on stages and overall. Looking at the list of stage winners from the GTs, I know the one for which I was most excited about seeing those victories. It serves a good purpose for that - I don't really connect with the sentiment of going on race threads and complaining how it's boring. I mean, yeah, I could have told you it would be boring up until the last climb when the parcours was released. Not sure why anyone would watch and expect otherwise. It's not like they wasted the parcours they had. So anyway, that aspect doesn't turn me off. But hmm, that first week of the Giro...

Giro>Vuelta>Tour

 

[DFA123]

I'd narrowly go with the Vuelta over the Giro. For me, the most important thing for a GT to have is that is a good GC battle. The Giro had great individual stages, which is obviously worth a lot, but the lack of tension and excitement in the GC battle puts it behind the Vuelta.

Tour is clearly last. No real GC battle and not many interesting stages (although Sagan single handedly tried his best to liven it up). Even the cobbles and uphill sprints were anti-climaxes. TdF had the most interesting, tactical and high quality sprints and had a good start list, but apart from that the riding was too cautious and defensive.

 

[fungusbear]

Vuelta was my favourite as Tour was over after PSM and the Giro after the TT.

 

[Metabolol]

Giro-Vuelta-Tour

Like many others I generally find the Tour to be pretty boring. Contador targeting the Tour next year will make it much more interesting but it would also really help if you have new names coming through in the Tour and if the GC talent was spread out more.

 

[gunara]

Giro wins easily, the good, the bad, and the ridiculous all happenned there. I can't really decide between the other two. Tour has some good stages and quality field as always, and Sagan, but some expectations are not met, Froome won too early, and Movistar..... The Vuelta is so weird it's a fun watch, everyone was yoyoing regarding form, Dumoulin and Chaves are refreshing, but it doesn't always feel like a GT, the route is not too bad for racing but often doesn't feel 'grand' enough. And I won't call the penultimate stage legendary or something like that, come on it's the ruthless Astana war machines against a lonely non-pure climber, not Contador against Katusha. It's enjoyable, it's memorable, but my favorite stage is the one that Valverde won against Sagan after Bilbao attacking like mad. These two stages make the Vuelta edge the Tour slightly for me.

 

[ray j willings]

If you think about it the Vuelta and tour were quite similar. Froome hanging on in the last week after a good start and TD doing the same although he did ride stage 19 very well.

Froome had Thomas for major help and had to deal with Quintana and Movie and the lack of courage to attack

TD was mostly alone had to deal with Aru and Astana who attacked every chance they got.
The Brave win.

Froome and Aru both worthy winners.

 

[Kwibus]

Giro -> Vuelta -> TdF.

Giro was crazy. GC seemed sealed early, but ended up not that certain. Besides so many crazy days on such great terrain as always.

Vuelta course was poor, but we got a lot of action. Allthough a lot of last km action which was spectaculair though. Stage 20 was awesome ofcourse.

TdF certainly wasn't bad. I certainly enjoyed it, but PSM was a bummer for the GC. Certainly with Movistar that passive, but I did enjoy most stages. I always enjoy breakaway stages. 2 fights in a stage is always good.

 

[sienna]

I just like the GT's full-stop and enjoyed all three this year. Sometimes you just have to take your focus of the GC competition and soak up what unfolds each day on the road. I did enjoy Peter Sagan's exploits in the Tour though.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I don't think you watched the tour, Because I saw Froome hanging on for dear life, sucking the wheel of Thomas and on more than one occasion Thomas had to ease back because froome could not follow when he upped the tempo. The last mountain stage Froome was F%%%%d. If Movie were more aggressive Quintana would have and should have won the tour. In the end the wind split was the difference. Without it Froome would have lost.

You see what you want.

It was the most mountainous least tt Tour in history.

Yet this supposedly way superior climber Nairo Quintana who was constantly flying away from a "hanging on for dear life" Chris Froome couldn't even take back a 1 minute deficit over 2 and a half weeks of constant hill finishes and mountain stages and mtfs.

He took less time on Froome over 3 weeks than Aru did on Tom on 1 mountain.

I think I'll call BS on your revisionist portrayal of Froome hanging on for dear life.

 

[SafeBet]

Giro was the most entertaining GT in a very long time. Most stages were unpredictable and raced hard from the get go.

Tour had a nice first week, but then was doomed by the dominance of Froome. Still there were some very nice mountain stages with strong breaks.

Vuelta was poor overall and the battle for GC doesn't save it from its mediocrity.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Giro was the most entertaining GT in a very long time. Most stages were unpredictable and raced hard from the get go.

Tour had a nice first week, but then was doomed by the dominance of Froome. Still there were some very nice mountain stages with strong breaks.

Vuelta was poor overall and the battle for GC doesn't save it from its mediocrity.

I agree, I think the last 4 mountain stages in the Tour were races quite hard over Allos and x3 Croix de Fer. I dont think I ever saw +10 men in the leading group on either of those stages. But the consensus is it was a shitty race which I think is wrong. Only stages that disappointed me were Plateau de Beille and that Quintana didnt attack earlier at La Touissuire, nothing really else.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

I agree, I think the last 4 mountain stages in the Tour were races quite hard over Allos and x3 Croix de Fer. I dont think I ever saw +10 men in the leading group on either of those stages. But the consensus is it was a shitty race which I think is wrong. Only stages that disappointed me were Plateau de Beille and that Quintana didnt attack earlier at La Touissuire, nothing really else.

I don't really understand how anyone would take the Vuelta mountain stages over the Tour mountain stages. Even the Froome show on PSM was better than anything happened in the Vuelta until stage 20.