Best rider of this year (2012)?

[LaFlorecita]

If people will persist on omitting her from the poll, people will persist in giving her write-in votes, because she's worthy.

I also considered nominating Alessandro Zanardi. Not as the absolute #1 rider of the year, but I'd probably put him in the top 10 or 20.

I don't know how to say this... a lot of people simply don't care a lot about women's cycling.

 

[sublimit]

Womens BMX is were its at, forget road pro cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

people ommit her from the bloody polls because they are not meticulous, fussy, ignorant donks. fact.

It's ok not to care. But don't attack those that do.

People omit her from the polls, either out of ignorance, of forgetfulness, or out of not considering her achievements to be worthy of mention given the difference in calibre of competition.

Ignorance can be corrected; forgetfulness is something that happens to all of us. The latter is a matter of opinion. My opinion clearly differs to yours on the matter. I don't see how saying "a woman is, in my opinion, the best cyclist of the year" makes me any more ignorant than you for saying "wah wah somebody voted for somebody I don't care about".

If that were all it takes I'd be sideswiping the Cavendish discussion thread with Godwin's Law every five minutes.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't know how to say this... a lot of people simply don't care a lot about women's cycling.

Correct.

However:

- Considering her achievements less worthy because of lesser competition is a matter of opinion and a fair argument.
- Considering her achievements less worthy because of not caring is a matter of ignorance and stupidity. I don't care about golf. Does that mean that, when putting together polls for best sportsman of the year, golfers shouldn't be considered?

There are many legitimate reasons for saying that Wiggins, or Rodríguez, or Boonen, or hell, even Contador, should be considered rider of the year ahead of Marianne Vos. But the argument I responded to, i.e. "I want people to stop mentioning Vos", is NOT one of them.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Thank you Libertine. You are cool too.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Thank you Libertine. You are cool too.

But you are the coolest

 

[Miburo]

It was aimed at men cycling, forget to add that but i thought it was obvious, don't get the fuss.

I'm sure all of you know where this was aimed at. Oh well.

If you don't like it then make an own thread, way easier than complaining.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It was aimed at men cycling, forget to add that but i thought it was obvious, don't get the fuss.

I'm sure all of you know where this was aimed at. Oh well.

If you don't like it then make an own thread, way easier than complaining.

I don't see where anybody complained that Vos wasn't included in the nominees?

 

[woodenswan]

It's ok not to care. But don't attack those that do.

People omit her from the polls, either out of ignorance, of forgetfulness, or out of not considering her achievements to be worthy of mention given the difference in calibre of competition.

Ignorance can be corrected; forgetfulness is something that happens to all of us. The latter is a matter of opinion. My opinion clearly differs to yours on the matter. I don't see how saying "a woman is, in my opinion, the best cyclist of the year" makes me any more ignorant than you for saying "wah wah somebody voted for somebody I don't care about".

If that were all it takes I'd be sideswiping the Cavendish discussion thread with Godwin's Law every five minutes.

it's not about either of those. it's about intelligence i'd say.
people omit her because they realize that 99% of the posts here are related to male athletes so it seems redundant to actually mention this every time. true, this is not completely unambiguous, most people are still capable of understanding this concept. and most likely, you understand it as well, still you make sure to pop in every single time there's a similar discussion, make a fuss, and bait people into these pointless debates.
comparing her achievemants to male cyclists could be interesting, but repeatedly posting about her when it's clear to every able-minded member that the discussion is about something else is nothing but trolling

 

[Libertine Seguros]

it's not about either of those. it's about intelligence i'd say.
people omit her because they realize that 99% of the posts here are related to male athletes so it seems redundant to actually mention this every time. true, this is not completely unambiguous, most people are still capable of understanding this concept. and most likely, you understand it as well, still you make sure to pop in every single time there's a similar discussion, make a fuss, and bait people into these pointless debates.
comparing her achievemants to male cyclists could be interesting, but repeatedly posting about her when it's clear to every able-minded member that the discussion is about something else is nothing but trolling

So you're calling me mentally handicapped for mentioning a female cyclist, and I'M the one who's trolling and baiting?!

 

[deValtos]

Best racer polls always get massively skewed depending on who showed the latest amazing performance.

Palmares for objective comparison

Boonen:
1st Paris Roubaix
1st Ronde van Vlaanderen
1st Gent Wevelgem
1st E3 Harelbeke
1st Paris Brussels
1st Tour of Qatar (plus stages)
1st Belgium Champ
1st Team TT World Champ
1st World Ports Classics (plus stages)
and stages in Paris-Nice, San Luis

Wiggins:
1st Paris-Nice
1st Romandie
1st Dauphine
1st Tour de France
(plus stage wins in all of them)

Rodriguez:
1st Fleche Wallonne
1st Lombardia
2nd Giro (plus stages and points jersey)
3rd Vuelta (plus stages)
and stages in BasqueCountrytour(2nd) and Tirreno

They all achieved great results but I would put both Boonen&Wiggins ahead of Rodriguez.

 

[ILovecycling]

Always Vino

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Best racer polls always get massively skewed depending on who showed the latest amazing performance.

Palmares for objective comparison

Boonen:
1st Paris Roubaix
1st Ronde van Vlaanderen
1st Gent Wevelgem
1st E3 Harelbeke
1st Paris Brussels
1st Tour of Qatar (plus stages)
1st Belgium Champ
1st Team TT World Champ
1st World Ports Classics (plus stages)
and stages in Paris-Nice, San Luis

Wiggins:
1st Paris-Nice
1st Romandie
1st Dauphine
1st Tour de France
(plus stage wins in all of them)

Rodriguez:
1st Fleche Wallonne
1st Lombardia
2nd Giro (plus stages and points jersey)
3rd Vuelta (plus stages)
and stages in BasqueCountrytour(2nd) and Tirreno

They all achieved great results but I would put both Boonen&Wiggins ahead of Rodriguez.

The other thing then comes down to how much we value all-round skills. After all, Boonen has been a dominant force in one-day races, Wiggins has been a dominant force in stage races. Rodríguez hasn't been a dominant force in either (although he has been pretty dominant in races, usually stages of stage races, with steep walls or puncheur finishes) but he has picked up some top results in both.

 

[Miburo]

I don't see where anybody complained that Vos wasn't included in the nominees?

Other, Vos.

3x World Cup events
The toughest stage race on the calendar, with 5x stage wins
1x Olympic Gold medal
2x World championship jerseys
5x other one day race wins
3x other stage race wins (with a combined 5x stage wins)

Not directly of course but you can read between the lines.

Or were you clueless it was about men? Don't give me that ****.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not directly of course but you can read between the lines.

Or were you clueless it was about men? Don't give me that ****.

That's not complaining, that's making a pick. You left the "other" option for us to use, but when picking "other" it's customary to actually say who that "other" is.

The complaints were from people who were upset that we mentioned Marianne.

I was, actually, clueless it was about men to the exclusion of all else. I expected it would be primarily about men, since 99% of discussion is of men's elite pro cycling on this forum, but that's ok. Hitch and others will tell you I've been reminding people of the need to take Vos into account on polls like this as long as I've been here.

 

[Miburo]

That's not complaining, that's making a pick. You left the "other" option for us to use, but when picking "other" it's customary to actually say who that "other" is.

The complaints were from people who were upset that we mentioned Marianne.

Nah you were obviously trolling, you really thought I meant women cycling aswell? If i did then it would have been no question that it was Vos.

Of course i should have said women cycling but don't tell me you didn't know that.

So really?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah you were obviously trolling, you really thought I meant women cycling aswell? If i did then it would have been no question that it was Vos.

Of course i should have said women cycling but don't tell me you didn't know that.

So really?

If I was trolling, I'd have been telling you what an idiot you were for not including her.

Instead, I included her by the more diplomatic reason of listing her achievements as justification for my choice, and you've labelled me a troll who has wilfully misconstrued your intentions, and elsewhere I've been labelled a baiter, ignorant and had it implied that I'm a ***.

The only thing that I possibly am when nominating Vos as a candidate for rider of the year on a thread like this is pedantic. To that charge I'll plead guilty. But you'll note that Zam and Hitch, two highly respected and prolific posters here, both mentioned Vos before I did.

Woodenswan is sick of hearing about Vos on threads like this for the same reason Waterloo Sunrise was sick of hearing about Cipollini's win in Gent-Wevelgem in the threads about Cavendish being a one-trick pony. Because it keeps being forgotten about, so people keep reminding them of it.

 

[woodenswan]

Best racer polls always get massively skewed depending on who showed the latest amazing performance.

exactly
i also thought this will be between Wiggins and Boonen. those trebles are huge: RVV, GW, PR; and PN, Dauphiné, le Tour

i love Purito, but those gt performances are misses, not wins

Nah you were obviously trolling

he was, and he does this every single time when there's a similar discussion

edit: he even mentioned Valentino Rossi once i think.. and now Zanardi

 

[the asian]

Voted Boonen for winning PR, Ronde, E3 Prijs and GW. Purito 2nd.

 

[the asian]

exactly
i also thought this will be between Wiggins and Boonen. those trebles are huge: RVV, GW, PR;
i

Boonen won E3 prijs as well.

 

[Miburo]

If I was trolling, I'd have been telling you what an idiot you were for not including her.
.

You did it alright but not directly.

So you think i'm an idiot cause i forget to include "men"

Damn, talk about butthurt.

Anyway this is not what this thread is about. So i'm gonna drop it.

Keep calling people idiot on the internet, good luck with that

 

[woodenswan]

Boonen won E3 prijs as well.

i know, i just wanted to go with trebles there

only the 2nd rider to win those 4 races in one season! (i think)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You did it alright but not directly.

So you think i'm an idiot cause i forget to include "men"

Damn, talk about butthurt.

Anyway this is not what this thread is about. So i'm gonna drop it.

Keep calling people idiot on the internet, good luck with that

"if" is a conditional. "If I was trolling". Which I wasn't.

Hence I wasn't calling you an idiot.

I thought this thread was about "riders of the year". Forgive me if I was wrong.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

edit: he even mentioned Valentino Rossi once i think.. and now Zanardi

It was Lorenzo I mentioned that time, and that time was playing wind-up. That time, the definition requested was "cyclist", and it was a thread that was already in the dustbin by the time I came to mention women, track cyclists, Paralympians and motorcyclists.

Normally when I mention Vos, it's not a wind-up.

 

[vcampbell]

Why don't you made this poll before Lombardia, and one again after it?

I voted for Wiggins, because winning PN, Romandie, CdD and Tour is something which is unique. He won the Tour because of the ITTs? No, he was the second strongest in that peloton, and the strongest was his own domestique. A win is a win especially if it is a stage race, because it shows, that he was always consistent.
Podium in 2 GTs? That's not like winning them. Purito always waited for the last km, and that was the reason he was never able to win. He attacked only on Bola del Mundo, when there was late.