Best TTers past or present?

Page 7 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Who is the best time trialist, past or present?

  • Fausto Coppi

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Mar 19, 2009
1,796
0
0
webbie146 said:
Ore 2005 with that awesome performance in the prologue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOQflZqzn_U
I think it was more of an actual time trial due to the length, but he didnt win that one I think jan was well below form that day(he did crash through teh back window of a car the :S), but if i remember right zabriske set the record for fastest average speed and armstrong unclipped his foot from the pedal by accident straight after leaving the start ramp, not sure if he would have one if it wasnt for that.... errr so I dont think that was his best one because he didnt win it, very impressive and depressing to see the battle for the yellow jersey end on day one though..
 
May 18, 2011
462
0
0
Le breton said:
This, which I just found concerning Gimondi 1967 seems to corroborate your claim.
le grand prix des Nations (avec le record de l’épreuve : 47,518 km/h sur 73,5 km)

that would be roughly 1:20 faster than Anquetil 1965 assuming same course.
Tailwind??
 
Oct 1, 2010
320
0
0
Polish said:
What a great post - thanks!
Tough (impossible?) to tell when Lance was at his strongest in the TT.
He was strong from early on until the end of his career.
Heck, he is still world class as a 40 year old retiree lol.

If I may, can I add Lance as a 15 year old kicking ****?
http://youtu.be/sFkAhs4vAsk

And also as a beast riding the TTT:
http://youtu.be/sZQ2K-0FugQ

It is absolutely hard to argue against Lance being the strongest TTer of all time.
Wasn't there an ITT that Big Mig rode in his prime that Lance later rode faster in his own prime? Same course, Lance faster?
You might be thinking of the Le Puy du Fou prologue won by Indurain in 1993 and Armstrong in 1999. However, it can't have been the same course as Indurain's prologue was 6.8km while Armstrong's was 6km.

By the way, it is easy to argue against Armstrong being the strongest TTer of all time - I refer you to my earlier post in favour of Bernard Hinault.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
AngusW said:
You might be thinking of the Le Puy du Fou prologue won by Indurain in 1993 and Armstrong in 1999. However, it can't have been the same course as Indurain's prologue was 6.8km while Armstrong's was 6km.

By the way, it is easy to argue against Armstrong being the strongest TTer of all time - I refer you to my earlier post in favour of Bernard Hinault.
Yes, I was thinking of Le Puy du Fou.
Big Mig = 8min 12sec
Big Tex = 8min 2sec
I show both circuits being 6.8km.
Both riders about the same age on race day.
And seem to recall they were the identical parcourse....

1993:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJFoFR7bD6s

1999:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/tour99/prologue.html

And both Big Mig and Lance were FASTER than Hinault.
But I am not going to argue that point. Absolutely too hard.
 
Descender said:
Merckx rode the Vuelta in 73 because he was banned from riding the tour that year.
?? Source ??

Le breton said:
(1)In 1966 over a distance of 72 km, Anquetil finished at 43.954 km/h, 1:51 ahead of Gimondi. Merckx was THIRD.

Merckx = 49,431kmh
Anquetil = 47,493kmh


(2)Should I assume it didn't escape you that Merckx was at 2230 m. altitude? Probably not.[...]
(1) Merckx was 21

(2) It didn't. But I don't believe it's such a big difference. Ferdi Bracke broke Anquetil's record at sea level but was unable to recapture his record in Mexico. He couldn't adapt to altitude. Merckx had several proposals to break Ritter's high altitude record, in Europe and he seriously considered them. Munich but the track was too short. Rome, but it was blown away by the sea breeze and the Vigorelli but the track had aged. Which tells me that Ritter's record was breakable at low altitude.

Le breton said:
All you are left with is that the Vigorelli track is better than Mexico's.

Added in proof :) :) :)
Which I can. When Merckx arrived in Mexico, it rained cats and dogs. He could not go on a recognition. And even 5 days later when he made the attempt, the track was still damp. Anquetil who was present (commentator for Europe 1) told him to try it out despite the bad conditions.

When Ritter attempted to recapture his record, he would only do it if the weather conditions were perfect. Only then was the record breakable.

This, which I just found concerning Gimondi 1967 seems to corroborate your claim.
le grand prix des Nations (avec le record de l’épreuve : 47,518 km/h sur 73,5 km)

that would be roughly 1:20 faster than Anquetil 1965 assuming same course.
I read that in Mes 5 geants du cyclisme by Geminiani (published in 1982). He considered Gimondi as an all-time great TTist, for that reason. ;)
 
Sep 1, 2011
281
0
0
My personal rankings: 1. Indurain: 10 ITT wins in the tour
- Hour record
- olympic gold ITT
- World ITT champion
- Not sure if he won any TTs in the Giro, but he won 4 stages so I'd imagine at least one was a TT.

2. Lance Armstrong: 11-8 in tour time trials during 1999-2005, 11-12 overall.
- Beat Ullrich by more than a minute on a 20 minute course (2005)
- Olympic bronze

3. Fabian Cancellara: 6-10 in tour time trials.
- 4x World TT champ
- Olympic Gold.
 
jordan5000 said:
My personal rankings: 1. Indurain: 10 ITT wins in the tour
- Hour record
- olympic gold ITT
- World ITT champion
- Not sure if he won any TTs in the Giro, but he won 4 stages so I'd imagine at least one was a TT.

2. Lance Armstrong: 11-8 in tour time trials during 1999-2005, 11-12 overall.
- Beat Ullrich by more than a minute on a 20 minute course (2005)
- Olympic bronze

3. Fabian Cancellara: 6-10 in tour time trials.
- 4x World TT champ
- Olympic Gold.
All of them were.
 
jordan5000 said:
My personal rankings: 1. Indurain: 10 ITT wins in the tour
- Hour record
- olympic gold ITT
- World ITT champion
- Not sure if he won any TTs in the Giro, but he won 4 stages so I'd imagine at least one was a TT.

2. Lance Armstrong: 11-8 in tour time trials during 1999-2005, 11-12 overall.
- Beat Ullrich by more than a minute on a 20 minute course (2005)- Olympic bronze

3. Fabian Cancellara: 6-10 in tour time trials.
- 4x World TT champ
- Olympic Gold.
Sure it was impressive but we have to remember that he went threw a car window the night before.
 
Sep 1, 2011
281
0
0
SHAD0W93 said:
Sure it was impressive but we have to remember that he went threw a car window the night before.
Beating a tour champ's time by one twentieth in a tt is impressive no matter what.
 
Echoes said:
..........

(1) Merckx was 21

(2) ....But I don't believe it's such a big difference. ...........
1) Merckx was 21 when he finished 3rd in the GP des Nations on his 1st participation, but Anquetil was only 19 when he scored his 1st victory ( faster than Coppi/Koblet on previous years IIRC)


2) believing is not enough. I gave you a scientific reference. And I didn't use Péronnet' studies as I do not believe him to be as competent in sport physiology as Di Pamprero.

Of course, individual diffrences are quite noticeable when it comes to power reduction with altitude and those studies use averages of a number of tests.

I should add that I believe Merckx would have done considerably better than 49.431 km if it hadn't started at such breakneck speed (to beat the 10 and 20 km W.R). Correspondingly he probably could have done better than 48 km at sea-level. (but then, at his peak between 1961 and 1964 Anquetil could also have done better than 47,493 km?).
 
Oct 1, 2010
320
0
0
Polish said:
Yes, I was thinking of Le Puy du Fou.
Big Mig = 8min 12sec
Big Tex = 8min 2sec
I show both circuits being 6.8km.
Both riders about the same age on race day.
And seem to recall they were the identical parcourse....

1993:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJFoFR7bD6s

1999:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/tour99/prologue.html

And both Big Mig and Lance were FASTER than Hinault.
But I am not going to argue that point. Absolutely too hard.
Thanks for the correction, Polish! My apologies for maligning your hero.

Here's what Alex Zulle said:

Alex Zülle (Swi/Banesto, second): "I am not totally surprised by my performance in this time trial, which is my speciality. I came second behind Indurain in 1993 on a nearly identical circuit."

I would agree that both Indurain and Armstrong were faster than Hinault - I'd be surprised if it wasn't so, given that both were using aero bars, something Hinault didn't use. The question is not the fastest TTer, but the best TTers past or present.

BTW, earlier you said it was impossible to say which year Armstrong was strongest in time trials. I would argue that it was 2001, mainly because he defeated Jan Ullrich by the biggest margins when Ullrich by his own admission was in the best form of his life.
 
Jan 25, 2010
264
0
0
Polish said:
Yes, I was thinking of Le Puy du Fou.
Big Mig = 8min 12sec
Big Tex = 8min 2sec
I show both circuits being 6.8km.
Both riders about the same age on race day.
And seem to recall they were the identical parcourse....

1993:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJFoFR7bD6s

1999:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/tour99/prologue.html

And both Big Mig and Lance were FASTER than Hinault.
But I am not going to argue that point. Absolutely too hard.
Don't forget,

Big Mig --- was riding a steel bike
lance armstrong ---- was riding a carbon fiber bike

there goes your attempt at trying to elevate lance to the height of Indurain
 
Mar 10, 2009
6,158
0
0
Voted Big Mig but overlooked Merckx was there, so deduct one from Mig and move it to Merckx. How could I ever vote a classics winner like Merckx over a non-Classics winner, I failed :( Yea, I know its not a Classics vote but! If you have a TT stage winner who also wins Classics in solo breakaway's (basically TT's) you then have the best TTer in the biz.

Then, who rates Worlds TT wins as the mark of the best TTer? More than half the time the real Worlds TT winner never show up! Or the riders we know would at least podium on a regular basis, especially since they moved it to October! Next thing is people are going to say the team that wins a TTT is the best team! (hope not!)
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Iker_Baqueiro said:
Don't forget,

Big Mig --- was riding a steel bike
lance armstrong ---- was riding a carbon fiber bike

there goes your attempt at trying to elevate lance to the height of Indurain
Lance was riding Titanium.
Awesome Metal.
(Litespeed with Trek Decals IIRC).

But I agree with Big Mig as best.
I posted as such a bit earlier in the thread.
3) Jacques
2) Lance
1) Big Mig
IMO

 
Mar 20, 2009
406
0
0
i dont think mig was best. he was better than the others at one point in history, but so were most the others on the list.
 
Jul 4, 2011
1,899
0
0
Garmin Cervelo is the best team, the TTT and the standings in the TdF back me up.:D

Personally, I don't think you can compare different eras but different riders in the same era for pretty obvious reasons and I can't comment on riders who I haven't watched so that rules out most of the poll.
 
Mar 10, 2009
6,158
0
0
ramjambunath said:
Garmin Cervelo is the best team, the TTT and the standings in the TdF back me up.:D

Personally, I don't think you can compare different eras but different riders in the same era for pretty obvious reasons and I can't comment on riders who I haven't watched so that rules out most of the poll.
Hey! How dare you. Can a mod remove that, I'm offended at GPS-Crapelo listed as best team due to one TTT. :eek: :D :p

Comparisons will contiue to happen, especially during these hard times caused by the lack of races and cold weather keeping us from riding as much as we'd like. Merckx would wipe the floor with all of them.
 
Descender said:
Of course I don't have a quote from Merckx saying "I rode the Vuelta because I couldn't ride the Tour, otherwise I'd never have bothered to ride it", but I think it's pretty obvious that is what happened.
OK nothing concrete but an article from the most reliable source on earth, namely Wikipedia, the author of the article being really competent since he argued that Merckx transferred to Molteni that year while had raced for Molteni since 1971. Merckx had offers from Vuelta organizers in 1971, for the 1972 edition, already (he refused because angry French journalists wanted a revenge at Bore de France and since he gave Ocaña his chance, he was released from all obligations and free the make his 1973 calendar as he wished). And the Vuelta was moneymaking too.

Le breton said:
1) Merckx was 21 when he finished 3rd in the GP des Nations on his 1st participation, but Anquetil was only 19 when he scored his 1st victory ( faster than Coppi/Koblet on previous years IIRC)
I know that. If I said the field was much lower in 1953 than in 1966?
... It would please some "modernists" on these boards.

Le breton said:
believing is not enough. I gave you a scientific reference.
You've asked me to prove that the track was worse than the Vigorelli and I gave it to you but you paid no attention to it.

If low altitude makes you lose 3km in an hour than Moser in 1986 made a more impressive ride than in 1984 (provided the bike was +/- the same). Very unlikely to me. Than why don't the UCI scrap it along with the "aero" records?

Edit: And Hour records cannot be attempted in riders' peaks, normally. All before Merckx attempted it in their early days or later days because their calendars were so heavy in their prime years. The exceptions were Bracke & Ritter because they were trackies, first & foremost.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY