Betsy testifies

[Hugh Januss]

it just so happens fanboys have their heads square on their shoulders but backwards

I don't even want to think about where Flickers head has been.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't even want to think about where Flickers head has been.

excellent! in this case i think it might be still there..

 

[flicker]

small fish dont cheat their way to 7 TdFs, fly around the world in their own private jet, head a consortium attempting to buy the TdF, bribe UCI, have millions of dollars in the bank (probably again in Switzerland).....wrong again flicker



yeah i agree, LA is part of the money trail with Weisel, an athlete (now retired)and drug dealer to his team along with JB.

My thought was a comparison to Clinton,Mr.+Mrs.
They are a production of the true players. With Lance I daresay the PEDs are as much a tool by his sponsors and managers to get the most out of him as much as his rather obnoxious persona.(which I enjoy)
As I see it Lance is a personification of a world leader, politician, preacher, rock star what have you. I like it I like the bling o' Lance. If I wanted to clean up the sport I would follow the money #1. Nothing complex about that, it is the same way our government prosecutes large scale drug dealers.

 

[BikeCentric]

Stop quoting Flicker, it breaks my ignore list. Thank you.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As I posted quite a few times, I view Lance as being a middle fish in this. Bigger if paperwork shows him to be part owner or de facto owner of Tailwind/USPS Cycling. I have no inside knowledge and this is pure speculation, but my guess is that Novitzky and other investigators are most focused on Tom Weisel, Bill Stapleton, Del Moral, Alan Lim, Jim Ochowicz, and probably Steve Johnson. Not to mention other management and medical staff. Lance being the team captain, and most visible and outspoken team member is going to be a focus for various reason around that. Most of the riders and names we know and talk about are likely very little fish.

My information is telling me of a deal being done. Admission of mild doping guilt and other charges will be lessened. Lets see what comes. Otherwise its cuffs and chains.

Information, or speculation? I do tend to agree this is possible. I would think Lance has to be in a real tough spot especially if shown to be part owner of Tailwind/USPS. He would be capable of fingering those above him, but painted into a corner from years of stridently proclaiming purity he would have to rescind. He might, maybe, possibly be able to squirm out of serious damage by cooperating and helping sink the evil suits above him, while saying he was compelled to dope a few times under strict medical supervision, as was the culture of the sport, and he regrets it deeply. Blah, blah. There would be a howl of protest, but he may be able to dodge a bigger bullet by doing so (ie, prison).

 

[kurtinsc]

small fish dont cheat their way to 7 TdFs, fly around the world in their own private jet, head a consortium attempting to buy the TdF, bribe UCI, have millions of dollars in the bank (probably again in Switzerland).....wrong again flicker

His accomplishments on the bike and his wealth really don't factor in to how "big a fish" he is in an investigation like this.

Barry Bonds wasn't really a big fish in the Balco investigation. He was a big name... but the users of performance enhancing drugs are never the final targets. Being a big fish in a sport while using PED's doesn't mean you are a big fish in the PED ring itself... and that's what the investigators are going after. They really don't care about the sport one way or another (or they shouldn't... I suppose they may have a personal grudge unrelated to the actual investigation).

I'm not sure how much I believe the reports of him being a "dealer". Perhaps he was, and if he was doing that then maybe he is a big target in this whole thing. But if he's simply a rider using PED's, perhaps occasionally letting other riders pick up their drugs at his house... then I can't see him being a primary target.

That doesn't mean he won't go down as a by-product of the whole thing of course. And of course he could be much deeper into things then I believe he is.

 

[CPAvelo]

There would be a howl of protest, but he may be able to dodge a bigger bullet by doing so (ie, prison).

You are dashing my hopes. I was hoping to secure a lucrative contract supplying LA with a special edition yellow jumpsuit.

 

[flicker]

You know guys I am working with Mr. Armstrong,David Millar,Brad Wiggins and a certain Mr. Danillo Di Luca with advisement from Mr. Ricco and his ex. Dannella. We will work towards clean cycling and cooperate with Mr. Novitsky, just because that is the kind of guys we represent. Flicker

 

[Merckx index]

In regards to Merckx index info. ;


armstrong started out taking a regimen called BEP: bleomycin sulfate, etoposide phosphate, and cisplatin (Platinol)

the bleo destroys lung tissue, so after one cycle (3 weeks, 5 days on, weekend off, next week 1 drip bag, following week 1 drip bag) out of three treatments he went with a different more aggressive three drug combo, but less harsh on the lungs

http://www.google.com/search?q=cist...=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=5673716d440c1f33


http://www.google.com/search?q=cist...=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=5673716d440c1f33

and as i have stated before, testicular chemo treatment effects your white blood cell count, not your red. So, for instance, Neupogen is used, another Amgen product, to boost white cell count.

I never understood why the story goes, that he needed EPO, to raise red blood cell count. It does not work that way. EVER

now, while being operated on for the brain tumor, or during recovery, epo might possibly have been used. not for the cancer meds

BEP is the standard for testicular cancer

EPO is commonly taken for anemia, and anemia is extremely common among cancer patients. (It's now appreciated that it may make some cancers worse, but this was not known in the 1990s). Someone also posted an interview with CN in which LA stated he took EPO in 1996. Corticosteroids are also commonly used to treat cancer patients, as they reduce inflammation associated with the cancer.

So Fabiani was presumably correct insofar as LA did take EPO and probably steroids before, during and after the period of the hospital conversation. Then why was this statement removed from the LA Times? Probably because any mention of drugs that are banned for athletes, even if used by cancer patients, doesn't help either LA's legal case or public image.

ChrisE, thanks for the link on Novitzky. I knew that many lawyers who have crossed swords with him have had bad things to say about him, but you would expect that. I did not know that his former associates in the IRS made these allegations. Putting this together with Fabiani's recent statement (I think it was him) that LA's team would be looking into prosecutorial mismanagement, or whatever the legal term is, it's easy to see they will be poking into Novitzky's background. I wonder if, assuming these allegations are true and that they really prevented him from testifying against Conte, whether they could also hinder his case against LA.

 

[Benotti69]

His accomplishments on the bike and his wealth really don't factor in to how "big a fish" he is in an investigation like this.

Barry Bonds wasn't really a big fish in the Balco investigation. He was a big name... but the users of performance enhancing drugs are never the final targets. Being a big fish in a sport while using PED's doesn't mean you are a big fish in the PED ring itself... and that's what the investigators are going after. They really don't care about the sport one way or another (or they shouldn't... I suppose they may have a personal grudge unrelated to the actual investigation).

I'm not sure how much I believe the reports of him being a "dealer". Perhaps he was, and if he was doing that then maybe he is a big target in this whole thing. But if he's simply a rider using PED's, perhaps occasionally letting other riders pick up their drugs at his house... then I can't see him being a primary target.

That doesn't mean he won't go down as a by-product of the whole thing of course. And of course he could be much deeper into things then I believe he is.

i am inclined to believe a guy like LA has to be top dog in the pack. Now whether smart guys like Weisel et al can operate while making LA believe he is the top dog is possible and that is possible as i dont think LA is extremely intelligent to make it all happen, but i still think he is a middle to big fish in this. No evidence but his character leads me to think this. I may be wrong

 

[Benotti69]

Stop quoting Flicker, it breaks my ignore list. Thank you.

why would you put flickie on ignore, the guy/gal is pure entertainment

 

[powerste]

ChrisE, thanks for the link on Novitzky. I knew that many lawyers who have crossed swords with him have had bad things to say about him, but you would expect that. I did not know that his former associates in the IRS made these allegations. Putting this together with Fabiani's recent statement (I think it was him) that LA's team would be looking into prosecutorial mismanagement, or whatever the legal term is, it's easy to see they will be poking into Novitzky's background. I wonder if, assuming these allegations are true and that they really prevented him from testifying against Conte, whether they could also hinder his case against LA.

I don't think that much that came up in that link is going to be terribly useful to LA & Co. in the current investigation because any specific infractions uncovered in the report referenced in that article occurred during the Balco investigation, not this one.

I would imagine that Team Liestrong is scouring it furiously for ideas of what to watch out for based on what Novitsky has done in the past to raise the hackles of the judiciary. I would also assume, though, that Dirk has probably read said report pretty carefully himself and I would expect him to have learned from it.

I'd be surprised if the Lance camp makes much headway on the "Big Bad Over-the-line Novitsky" front unless Dirk is either a really slow learner or wearing some serious blinders.

 

[flicker]

why would you put flickie on ignore, the guy/gal is pure entertainment

That it why my favorite band is the Smiths. Like Morrissey sometimes I can be the boy sometimes the girl. This Charming Life

 

[powerste]

That it why my favorite band is the Smiths. Like Morrissey sometimes I can be the boy sometimes the girl. This Charming Life

Wow - The Smiths - a perfect complement: entertaining as long as you don't take them too seriously.

But Flick, the thing that sets you apart from guys/gals like Morrissey is that you don't take yourself too seriously either. Don't go changing now

 

[Benotti69]

That it why my favorite band is the Smiths. Like Morrissey sometimes I can be the boy sometimes the girl. This Charming Life

more likely due to Uniballer's current predicament it's "heaven knows i'm miserable now"

 

[Frosty]

more likely due to Uniballer's current predicament it's "heaven knows i'm miserable now"

Could be 'Panic?'

 

[Benotti69]

Could be 'Panic?'

that'll be along in a few tunes time, but good call.

 

[flicker]

Wow - The Smiths - a perfect complement: entertaining as long as you don't take them too seriously.

But Flick, the thing that sets you apart from guys/gals like Morrissey is that you don't take yourself too seriously either. Don't go changing now

My 10 year old son listened to the Smiths with me an said WTF daddy, this is twisted. Morrissey gives a perspective on life that is clearly close to the heart of pro-cycling. Did you see the photo of Lord Armstrong lying in the bottom of a Gondola with a bunch of pros at the Giro. To much, gotta listen to more Smiths must get perspective here.....

 

[MacRoadie]

With Lance I daresay the PEDs are as much a tool by his sponsors and managers to get the most out of him as much as his rather obnoxious persona.

Ah, so it was the sponsors and managers who forced him to dope. Well, that certainly is a new one...

 

[flicker]

Ah, so it was the sponsors and managers who forced him to dope. Well, that certainly is a new one...

A theory only. Results are expected. Not everyone is content to be rabobank or poulidor.

 

[flicker]

I don't think that much that came up in that link is going to be terribly useful to LA & Co. in the current investigation because any specific infractions uncovered in the report referenced in that article occurred during the Balco investigation, not this one.

I would imagine that Team Liestrong is scouring it furiously for ideas of what to watch out for based on what Novitsky has done in the past to raise the hackles of the judiciary. I would also assume, though, that Dirk has probably read said report pretty carefully himself and I would expect him to have learned from it.

I'd be surprised if the Lance camp makes much headway on the "Big Bad Over-the-line Novitsky" front unless Dirk is either a really slow learner or wearing some serious blinders.

Don't be so hard on Dirk, great name is his last name Diggler by any chance?

 

[Kennf1]

Ah, so it was the sponsors and managers who forced him to dope. Well, that certainly is a new one...

Hey, that may well become the party line before all is said and done.

 

[ChrisE]

Ah, so it was the sponsors and managers who forced him to dope. Well, that certainly is a new one...

No doubt, the "victim" card. That's a new one.

 

[Berzin]

There is some seriously flawed logic at work here.

Armstrong isn't going to admit to "a little bit of doping" and then give information on the bigger fish. In this instance, he IS one of the bigger fish.

Unless he decides to throw everyone responsible for his drug-fueled success under the bus like Bruyneel, Dr. Ferarri and other team officials in exchange for leniency, I just don't see this happening.

He was the King Bee on the teams he rode for during his Tour wins. And as they say in the snitch biz, "you rat up, never down". He would also have to provide information on the financial aspects of the doping program-where the money came from, who got paid and how much.

This is a preposterous scenario and will never happen.

 

[Anonymous]

I for one want to see Bruyneel go down as much as I do Armstrong.