Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?

[The Hitch]

So crashing a lot is imperative to being a good bike handler?

Where in gods name did you get that from?

Not being brought down by bottles in feed zone is part of being a good bike handler imo.

Christ, what did Cancellara do. You act as if ronde was some bottle gauntlet where everyone had to dodge flying bottles and Cancellara was the **** bike handler who failed when everyone else succeeded.

Was Langevelds crash also the fault of **** bike handling?

What about Flecha and Hoogie in the Tour? **** bike handlers no doubt

And since you bring up Schleck, wouldn't it be fair to say that his (Frank) spectacular TdS crashes (who founded the 'Schlecks are bad bike handlers'-narrative) was due to attacking and taking risks on the descend?

Stop thinking in terms of absolutes. **** bike handlers are less likely to take risks.
That doesnt matter that they dont take risks or that top bike handlers always do.

Its pretty logical that people who take more risks are more likely to crash.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Then why did he say Pozzato was stronger than him on the hills?

Fair enough. He still didn't want to own up to the fact that he almost got dropped, IMO.

 

[El Pistolero]

Fair enough. He still didn't want to own up to the fact that he almost got dropped, IMO.

If he was really that close to breaking you'd think he wouldn't react to Ballan's attacks so easily after the hills. Probably what Pozzato was thinking considering he didn't attack once and thought he could beat Boonen in the sprint.

And Ballan did know they gapped Boonen on the hill by the way, just take a look your self in some of the post race interviews. So who ever made the statement that Ballan and Pippo would've rode away from Boonen had they known is clearly wrong.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/sportwereld/cnt/0B3O8JKT

Does this sound like an egomaniac to you?

"Toen Filippo Pozzato naar hem toesnelde, had ik geen keuze. Wilde ik mijn kansen vrijwaren, dan moest ik hard op zijn wiel springen. Pozzato was de sterkste van de dag. Hij heeft zijn benen van weleer duidelijk teruggevonden."

Read the whole interview before judging. But hey, if you want to believe Ryo over Boonen be my guest...

 

[The Hitch]

in dutch: "wat je zegt ben je zelf met je kop door de helft." I don't know if there is an english saying for this but this is what we used to say when we were 4 and el calimero still does it

let me guess is it " I know you are but what am I"

 

[The Hitch]

Looks like some late precincts are reporting heavily for Cancellara and the balance of power in the poll has just switched

You gonna set up a few more sockpuppets to vote, Pisti?

 

[El Pistolero]

Looks like some late precincts are reporting heavily for Cancellara and the balance of power in the poll has just switched

You gonna set up a few more sockpuppets to vote, Pisti?

I don't vote in silly polls because I don't care who wins a poll.

This is what matters and Boonen has won a hell of a lot more than Cancellara.

Cancellara is good at winning polls on CN, but not much else.

 

[Parrulo]

Where in gods name did you get that from?


Christ, what did Cancellara do. You act as if ronde was some bottle gauntlet where everyone had to dodge flying bottles and Cancellara was the **** bike handler who failed when everyone else succeeded.

Was Langevelds crash also the fault of **** bike handling?

What about Flecha and Hoogie in the Tour? **** bike handlers no doubt



Stop thinking in terms of absolutes. **** bike handlers are less likely to take risks.
That doesnt matter that they dont take risks or that top bike handlers always do.

Its pretty logical that people who take more risks are more likely to crash.

any feed zone of any race is a "bottle gauntlet" as riders receive new bottles on their bags so they ditch their old ones, why do you think some riders wait a couple k's before even opening their bags? feed zones are sometimes the most dangerous parts of a race. stuff like this happens but a seasoned rider like cancellara shouldn't be getting caught on this kind of stuff anymore. i wouldn't go as far as blaming it on his bike handling as much as blaming it on his carelessness.

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara is good at winning polls on CN, but not much else.

I think I just found my new signature

 

[El Pistolero]

any feed zone of any race is a "bottle gauntlet" as riders receive new bottles on their bags so they ditch their old ones, why do you think some riders wait a couple k's before even opening their bags? feed zones are sometimes the most dangerous parts of a race. stuff like this happens but a seasoned rider like cancellara shouldn't be getting caught on this kind of stuff anymore. i wouldn't go as far as blaming it on his bike handling as much as blaming it on his carelessness.

I think that's too advanced stuff for someone who hasn't watched any cobbled classics before 2010. It's also understandable that a lot of people think Cancellara is better overall considering by the looks of their posts they weren't watching cycling classics before 2010.

Roger de Vlaeminck even called Cancellara after that day to say he made a mistake. Not that he's right all the time, but sometimes he is.

I think I just found my new signature

Still mad about the Goss thing?

Ps: at least quote it correctly, with the emoticon.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Because he didn't want to acknowledge that he was weaker than Ballan and Pozzato on the hills, I would guess.

Bingo.

When FC dumped him on the Muur in 2010 it's because he "cramped." When he was dumped at PR a week later it's because he was in a bad position.

I'm not Boonen bashing by any stretch. I've been in Belgium when Belgians win the RVV and when non-Belgians win.

A Belgian winning is a helluva lot more fun

But, I still say, if both are going well, FC wins more times than TB.

 

[El Pistolero]

Bingo.

When FC dumped him on the Muur in 2010 it's because he "cramped." When he was dumped at PR a week later it's because he was in a bad position.

I'm not Boonen bashing by any stretch. I've been in Belgium when Belgians win the RVV and when non-Belgians win.

A Belgian winning is a helluva lot more fun

But, I still say, if both are going well, FC wins more times than TB.

No point in arguing with you if you just ignore the interview posted. It contradicts everything you claim.

If FC is supposed to win more than Boonen then why doesn't he? It's a silly statement to make with nothing to back it up.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

let me guess is it " I know you are but what am I"

it literally means "what you say are yourself with your head cut in half" something like that.

don't know if this translation does it justice but I'm sure you recognize calimero in this

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I don't vote in silly polls because I don't care who wins a poll.

This is what matters and Boonen has won a hell of a lot more than Cancellara.

Cancellara is good at winning polls on CN, but not much else.

I hope one of the mods or admins here can confirm you haven't voted in this poll then.

 

[Scott SoCal]

No point in arguing with you if you just ignore the interview posted. It contradicts everything you claim.

If FC is supposed to win more than Boonen then why doesn't he? It's a silly statement to make with nothing to back it up.

You mean the part where Boonen says this?

Pozzato was the strongest of the day.

At least he was being honest.

If FC is supposed to win more than Boonen then why doesn't he?

Amazing how things happen during a bike race, isn't it?

It's a silly statement to make with nothing to back it up.

Oh, I think there's plenty to back it up and I'd guess that about half the true cycling aficionados will agree with me and about half will agree with you. That's not nothing.

 

[trompe le monde]

In some ways, the poll is unfair. Take away cobblestone ability from Boonen and you are left with a milquetoast husk that has no other reason for cycling.
Take away cobblestone ability from Cancellara and you still have currently one of the best time trialistists, classics winner, Strade Bianchi winner, Tour de Suisse winner and countless other accolades. Cancellara the cyclist has much more well rounded capability than Boonen. Boonen merely exists for 8 calendar days in the year.

Yes, I know its a digression and not the point of the thread. But I find it hard to think of Boonen as an equal or better than Cancellara at anything....except for maybe unintenionally doing coke. Boonen's got Cancellara beat on that.

 

[El Pistolero]

In some ways, the poll is unfair. Take away cobblestone ability from Boonen and you are left with a milquetoast husk that has no other reason for cycling.
Take away cobblestone ability from Cancellara and you still have currently one of the best time trialistists, classics winner, Strade Bianchi winner, Tour de Suisse winner and countless other accolades. Cancellara the cyclist has much more well rounded capability than Boonen. Boonen merely exists for 8 calendar days in the year.

Yes, I know its a digression and not the point of the thread. But I find it hard to think of Boonen as an equal or better than Cancellara at anything....except for maybe unintenionally doing coke. Boonen's got Cancellara beat on that.

Green jersey in the Tour, World champion in the road race, World Champion in the team time trial, 8 Grand Tour stages, yellow jersey in the Tour, 2 podiums in Milan-San Remo, 2-time Belgian champ(once on a hilly road race beating GVA and Gilbert), etc

But how could that ever compete against a 1.1 race.

 

[trompe le monde]

Green jersey in the Tour, World champion in the road race, World Champion in the team time trial, 8 Grand Tour stages, yellow jersey in the Tour, 2 podiums in Milan-San Remo, 2-time Belgian champ(once on a hilly road race beating GVA and Gilbert), etc

But how could that ever compete against a 1.1 race.

How on earth can Cancellara compete in the Belgian championship? Citing that is irrelevent. Team time trial? Irrelevent. Cancellara has won Milan San Remo, not just podiumed it. Sure, Boonen has won those fancy things in the past, but he now pretty much exists for cobbles season. The rest of the season he hibernates.

Look, I realise that to persuade someone from thinking otherwise when it comes to a rider is difficult, but I believe and always will believe that given my druthers, Cancellara > Boonen. You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours. C'est la vie.

 

[El Pistolero]

How on earth can Cancellara compete in the Belgian championship? Citing that is irrelevent. Team time trial? Irrelevent. Cancellara has won Milan San Remo, not just podiumed it. Sure, Boonen has won those fancy things in the past, but he now pretty much exists for cobbles season. The rest of the season he hibernates.

Look, I realise that to persuade someone from thinking otherwise when it comes to a rider is difficult, but I believe and always will believe that given my druthers, Cancellara > Boonen. You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours. C'est la vie.

Cancellara hasn't won a fancy time trial since 2010, so is that also irrelevant now?

What on earth has Cancellara competing somewhere to do with the fact that Boonen won a race on a hilly terrain against a much better cyclist than Cancellara?

Boonen actually won the WC road race, not just failed in it.

What you call "hibernating" is called not being able to race because of injuries in 2010-2011 after the spring classics. I guess Cancellara was just hibernating this year and only raced for one day this year. And crashed.

Perfect logic mate. If Boonen was Suisse he maybe could've won the Tour de Suisse as well. But alas, no important stage races to be fixed in Belgium.

 

[trompe le monde]

Cancellara hasn't won a fancy time trial since 2010, so is that also irrelevant now?

What on earth has Cancellara competing somewhere to do with the fact that Boonen won a race on a hilly terrain against a much better cyclist than Cancellara?

Boonen actually won the WC road race, not just failed in it.

You're not very good at reading last sentences. I won't convince you, you won't convince me. If Roger De Vlaeminck can think that Boonen's win at Paris Roubaix wasn't that impressive, I can think he's not the bees knees too. And De Vlaeminck knows more about cycling then I ever will.

 

[El Pistolero]

You're not very good at reading last sentences. I won't convince you, you won't convince me. If Roger De Vlaeminck can think that Boonen's wins at Paris-Roubaix were third rate, I can think he's not the bees knees too. And De Vlaeminck knows more about cycling then I ever will.

He knows a lot about cycling from the '70s and '80s yes. Roger de Vlaeminck can be right about some things, but concerning Boonen the guy is biased. Still ****-hurt about his record being broken.

I'm not trying to convince you, but don't complain when someone reacts to your statements on a discussion forum. Strange attitude you have, not fighting back when someone attacks your standpoint.

Cancellara hasn't won a decent race since 2010, so I guess that makes him irrelevant altogether. Not my logic, but yours.

 

[trompe le monde]

Cancellara hasn't won a fancy time trial since 2010, so is that also irrelevant now?

What on earth has Cancellara competing somewhere to do with the fact that Boonen won a race on a hilly terrain against a much better cyclist than Cancellara?

Boonen actually won the WC road race, not just failed in it.

What you call "hibernating" is called not being able to race because of injuries in 2010-2011 after the spring classics. I guess Cancellara was just hibernating this year and only raced for one day this year. And crashed.

Perfect logic mate. If Boonen was Suisse he maybe could've won the Tour de Suisse as well. But alas, no important stage races to be fixed in Belgium.

? Boonen could win the Tour de Suisse if he wanted to, its open to any nationality. Being champion of Belgium is only open to Belgians. Where is the illogic in mentioning that citing a race that Cancellara can't by all rights compete in irrelevent?

I find your use of logic to be, well, illogical.

But this is really a digression from the topic. I won't say anymore.

Back to the topic of the cobbles.

 

[El Pistolero]

? Boonen could win the Tour de Suisse if he wanted to, its open to any nationality. Being champion of Belgium is only open to Belgians. Where is the illogic in mentioning that citing a race that Cancellara can't by all rights compete in irrelevent?

I find your use of logic to be, well, illogical.

But this is really a digression from the topic. I won't say anymore.

Back to the topic of the cobbles.

Tour de Suisse route had no mountains in it just so Cancellara could win his home Tour. A mountainous country with no mountains in its national Tour... I hope you're not that naive.

You were the one saying Boonen only performed in the cobbled classics, so don't moan when I give you evidence he doesn't. And that includes the Belgian Championship. Which takes place in June, without cobbles. Enough logic for you?

By your logic the discussion is closed because Cancellara is irrelevant on cobbles. Remember, didn't win an important race since 2010.

 

[trompe le monde]

He knows a lot about cycling from the '70s and '80s yes. Roger de Vlaeminck can be right about some things, but concerning Boonen the guy is biased. Still ****-hurt about his record being broken.

I'm not trying to convince you, but don't complain when someone reacts to your statements on a discussion forum. Strange attitude you have, not fighting back when someone attacks your standpoint.

Cancellara hasn't won a decent race since 2010, so I guess that makes him irrelevant altogether. Not my logic, but yours.

Okay, honestly, last post on this.

But why should I fight back? Is the internet really an electronic forum where people spar until someone relents? Should I try and beat someone down to a verbal pulp until they take my side? Is this what participating in a forum is all about?

People have different opinions. I can accept that. Isn't one of the points of being able to discuss something also the ability to tolerate other people's opinions?

Sure, I may have worded my dislike of Boonen strongly, but I'm not here to convince anyone to be pro-Cancellara. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine.

 

[El Pistolero]

Okay, honestly, last post on this.

But why should I fight back? Is the internet really an electronic forum where people spar until someone relents? Should I try and beat someone down to a verbal pulp until they take my side? Is this what participating in a forum is all about?

People have different opinions. I can accept that. Isn't one of the points of being able to discuss something also the ability to tolerate other people's opinions?

Sure, I may have worded my dislike of Boonen strongly, but I'm not here to convince anyone to be pro-Cancellara. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Don't act surprised when you get reactions to your strongly worded opinions, you were probably bating for them as well. There's such a thing as being too tolerant by the way, so grow a pair and defend your opinion!

It just so happens to be that my opinion is that your opinion is bogus.

You said Boonen only rides for 8 days a year, but now you're unable to stand by that. Ok, whatever.

When someone makes a racial comment do you also say "you have your opinion and I have mine"? Just curious.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Okay, honestly, last post on this.

But why should I fight back? Is the internet really an electronic forum where people spar until someone relents? Should I try and beat someone down to a verbal pulp until they take my side? Is this what participating in a forum is all about?

People have different opinions. I can accept that. Isn't one of the points of being able to discuss something also the ability to tolerate other people's opinions?

Sure, I may have worded my dislike of Boonen strongly, but I'm not here to convince anyone to be pro-Cancellara. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Cats round here wants and feels the need to win an internet discussion, which can be hilarious and annoying for others.