Bigger Achievement: Rio or Doha?

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Being called an olympic gold medallist is quite prestigious, also in road cycling.

No near as prestigious as being the World Champion.

Dependable on the person, but you are an olympic champion for life. You're just the world champion for a year.

Sorry but that doesn't make sense, you're applying two different standards. Either you are a World Champion or Olympic Champion for life or you are for one year (WC) or 4 years (OG). In reality you hold both for your life, especially the WC in cycling, as evidenced by the rainbow bands on the jerseys of Costa, Gilbert, Boonen, Cavendish etc.

But this thread was specifically about Rio and Doha, not Olympics and WC in general. You agree that because the Rio parcours is much more awesome than the Doha parcours, this year Rio might be regarded more important?

No, I don't agree. As far as I'm concerned the OG is a side show whereas the WC matters. Doesn't matter what the parcours is, That's my opinion.

Btw, more riders are building their season around Rio than Doha this year.

Obviously they are, many more people have a chance in Rio whereas Doha is pretty much between Cavendish, Kittel/Greipel, Gavaria, Kristoff and maybe Sagan and Coquard/Demare as an outside chance. Why build a season around a race you aren't going to win.

 

[barmaher]

For me, the Olympic games in road cycling is very important.

Top riders target the race. The only guys that don't aim for it are riders that are patently unsuited to the course (no different to the Ronde, LBL, WCRR, etc). And the fact that the race comes around every 4 years only and offers the opportunity to broaden the appeal of cycling in the winner's country is a big thing, in my view. Cycling could have gone the way of golf, with top athletes poo-pooing the event. But it hasn't - it is a genuine goal for even guys like Nibali and Froome who have won GT's already this season.

Rui Costa's WC win was big news in Portugal, but I bet it would be bigger news if he were to win Gold in Rio.

Similarly, if Dan Martin, Kwiatkowski, Kreuziger or Uran were to win gold, it would be massive in their native countries.

Comparing it to the WCRR is difficult, particularly this year. The WC is historic. The winner gets to wear rainbow stripes and it is very much seen as one of the criteria by which cycling greats are measured. Much more so than the Olympics.

But this year's course is a steaming bag of sh1te.

I would say ordinarily it is a draw. This year the WC will have more of an asterisk than the Copenhagen winner (due to the crappy parcours), so I would say Rio > Doha.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Being called an olympic gold medallist is quite prestigious, also in road cycling.

No near as prestigious as being the World Champion.

Dependable on the person, but you are an olympic champion for life. You're just the world champion for a year.

Sorry but that doesn't make sense, you're applying two different standards. Either you are a World Champion or Olympic Champion for life or you are for one year (WC) or 4 years (OG). In reality you hold both for your life, especially the WC in cycling, as evidenced by the rainbow bands on the jerseys of Costa, Gilbert, Boonen, Cavendish etc.

But this thread was specifically about Rio and Doha, not Olympics and WC in general. You agree that because the Rio parcours is much more awesome than the Doha parcours, this year Rio might be regarded more important?

No, I don't agree. As far as I'm concerned the OG is a side show whereas the WC matters. Doesn't matter what the parcours is, That's my opinion.

Btw, more riders are building their season around Rio than Doha this year.

Obviously they are, many more people have a chance in Rio whereas Doha is pretty much between Cavendish, Kittel/Greipel, Gavaria, Kristoff and maybe Sagan and Coquard/Demare as an outside chance. Why build a season around a race you aren't going to win.

Also the TT'ers are fully going for Rio instead of Doha.

 

[Netserk]

2012 would be a more interesting comparison, I think.

The calender slots have a big thing to say. Surely, a lot of the GT riders wouldn't have Rio as highly ranked if it was in October. (Though 2000 says the opposite)

 

[barmaher]

2012 was Gilbert in Holland, right?

Yeah I would say that race was very close to the Vino win in London in terms of prestige. You could argue that either way..

 

[the asian]

Re: Re:

Olympics by a country mile.

The reason the Olympics RR doesn't have the history and nostalgia is because of the amateurism of the Olympics RR until 1992.

With the participation of proffesionals it's gained a lot of acceptance, prestige has risen a lot and many athlete highly cherish the Olympic Gold.
Some riders build their season around it.

In any other olympic sport, Olympic Gold> Worlds Gold. It is the same for cycling.

What about football, boxing and rugby? World championship is much bigger for all of them. I think cycling is the same. The WC in cycling have so much history and prestige, and are such a big international event - that the Olympics is kind of a modern sideshow by comparison. A bit like Strade Bianche compared with Paris Roubaix. Sure, it's exciting and valuable and prestigious to win, but it's not quite the real deal - at least not yet.

Obviously the abomination that is this year's WC course devalues it slightly, but that is the exception not the usual situation.

.

In all of those sports the olympic and world's version are different.

In Football the Olympics are an under 23 event.
Boxing in the olympics is Amatuer Boxing and it's a different sport to Proffessional boxing and has it;s own governing body. An Olympic Gold in Amatuer Boxing is certainly much more prestigous than winning Gold at The Amatuer Boxing World's championships.

In Rugby obviously the version at the Olympics is Sevens, a different game than the 15 a side game where the World Cup is held.

I've left out Tennis since there is no World's singles Championship in Tennis (Do not think that the season ending ATP and WTA Champiosnips do qualify as such).


In individual sports which have joined the Olympic movement recently such as Badminton, Triathlon & Table Tennis, Olympic Gold is considered more prestigous that World's Gold despite the World's usually having a longer history.

Even in Tennis, after the intitial reluctance the top players have embraced the Olympics with Aggassi, Nadal, Murray , Serena, Venus, Henin all winning singles Gold and Federer winning a doubles Gold.

It is true that the Olympics Road Race is relatively modern (2016 will be only the 6th race after the Pro's we allowed) but it has received the prestige within a very short time and if let's say in an Olympic year both the Olympics and RR courses favour a particular rider, i have no doubt that the rider will peak for the Olympics.

 

[PremierAndrew]

The Olympics are super important for minor sports. But road cycling is not a minor sport, and arguably TdF, Giro, Vuelta and WC are all more important than the OGRR, while the monuments aren't far off in prestige/importance either.

That said, I really can't differentiate between the OG TT and WC TT.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

The Olympics are super important for minor sports. But road cycling is not a minor sport, and arguably TdF, Giro, Vuelta and WC are all more important than the OGRR, while the monuments aren't far off in prestige/importance either.

That said, I really can't differentiate between the OG TT and WC TT.

Minor - you mean like altletics ?

 

[hfer07]

RIO

 

[DanielSong39]

Doha.

 

[52520Andrew]

I'd say Rio for this year but a lot of factors to consider for the Olympics vs Worlds debate

 

[Escarabajo]

LOL. Rio of course!

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Being called an olympic gold medallist is quite prestigious, also in road cycling.

No near as prestigious as being the World Champion.

I've been thinking about this topic a bit and I think I came to a conclusion. In cycling winning the worlds is bigger, only because of the history and the awesome rainbow jersey.

With regards to the races I'm going to say winning the Olympics is a biger accomplishment. If only for the smaller teams which makes the race more selective/tactical and more dependant on the rider himself.
Even in London 2 riders finished together while the same course for the worlds was a 100% certain bunch sprint.

If they continue to make crappy races like Copenhagen and Doha then that will devalue the WC as well.

Yet right now the WC in cycling is bigger. The olympic champion should get some official recognition on his/her jersey as well though imo. Leader/winner jerseys are typical for cycling while wearing a special kit for 4 years is over the top . A reference on the last winners jersey would be nice.

 

[Kwibus]

Also there is obviously a change going on. Olympics are becoming more important in cycling.

Cycling is just not a traditional Olympics sport. I think Dumoulin is a prime example of the evolving relation between cycling and the Olympics.
Everyone wanted him to focus on a GT, but all he wanted was the gold medal in Rio. He's not from a typical cycling background. Only once he was 16 cycling caught his attention. He always loved watching the olympics though so in his opinion the Olympics have a huge value, more then anything else this season. Even more than the TdF, which if he didnt have to leave the giro injured he would've skipped.

He said the olympics are once in 4 years and all the other cycling races are every year so they can wait a year.

Dumoulin isn't from a,typical cycling background though.

 

[Jonhard]

The Olympics is now a horrible commercial monstrosity, and although that doesn’t ruin it totally for me, it does spoil it a bit.

Alas, this year the same can be said about the Qatar WC. Not much to separate the two, except Rio could be an interesting race.

So yeah, WC>OG, but Rio>Doha.

 

[jens_attacks]

Super vacation in dominica or trip to romania hospital?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

 

[StryderHells]

The Doha course is uninspiring but I'd still rank it higher than an Olympic RR win, everything about the Olympic movement is disgusting and has really devalued anything achieved at them.

 

[The Hitch]

Rio and its not close

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

I don't think road cycling is that big a sport though.

The olympics are perhaps the only occasion a very large global audience gets to see it, especially with its status as the first gold medal of the games.

The road worlds are in September, when all the usual big sports people generally care about (mainly football) are going again so these people no longer care about cycling.

Look at how when Rui Costa won the world championships, this was treated as an accomplishment inferior to a portugese tennis player winning tennis's equivalent of the tour of egypt. No one cared about it.

I think a larger number of people would know who Rui costa is if he wins the olympics. I don't think Samu would have had anywhere near the same legacy if he won in Varese rather than Beijing.

And even within cycling winning the olympics means you get called the "olympic champion" every single time your name is called, for 4 whole years, not just 1

 

[Red Rick]

I think that's a very good point. I think it's harder to forget that somebody was a world champion, even though he's wearing the bands. There's just a way shorter list of Olympic champions, which is why its so much more defining for a rider who has won the Olympic gold.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

I don't think road cycling is that big a sport though.

Afaik, the Tour is the biggest (measured by viewers, iirc) annual sporting event in the world.

Of all events, only OG and the football WC are bigger.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

I don't think road cycling is that big a sport though.

The olympics are perhaps the only occasion a very large global audience gets to see it, especially with its status as the first gold medal of the games.

The road worlds are in September, when all the usual big sports people generally care about (mainly football) are going again so these people no longer care about cycling.

Look at how when Rui Costa won the world championships, this was treated as an accomplishment inferior to a portugese tennis player winning tennis's equivalent of the tour of egypt. No one cared about it.

I think a larger number of people would know who Rui costa is if he wins the olympics. I don't think Samu would have had anywhere near the same legacy if he won in Varese rather than Beijing.

And even within cycling winning the olympics means you get called the "olympic champion" every single time your name is called, for 4 whole years, not just 1

Somewhat Anglocentric view, isn't it? It's the 'national' sport of Flanders, a huge deal in Brittany, important in the Basque Country...
People care about the WCs there, and cycling is indisputably a major sport in those regions.

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

I don't think road cycling is that big a sport though.

Afaik, the Tour is the biggest (measured by viewers, iirc) annual sporting event in the world.

Of all events, only OG and the football WC are bigger.

That's by using very creative math. That's 21 days of adding up viewers and counting it as 1 event. If we count viewers of all CL matches it would dwarf the TdF. If it were true and the TdF is this HUGE worldwide event, how come advertisers are paying millions per second for a superbowl ad, and the TdF winner gets a measly 450k...?

And apart from that, it's not so much cycling that makes the TdF big, it's the TdF that makes cycling big for 3 weeks a year... Half (if not more) of TdF viewers don't really care about cycling the other 49 weeks of the year.

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

Olympic medals are not important in sports with their own audience and with significant events and traditions of their own. It's a nice thing to have one, but ultimately its significance within cycling is more akin to having a track medal or a BMX medal than it is like winning the WCRR.

I don't think road cycling is that big a sport though.

The olympics are perhaps the only occasion a very large global audience gets to see it, especially with its status as the first gold medal of the games.

The road worlds are in September, when all the usual big sports people generally care about (mainly football) are going again so these people no longer care about cycling.

Look at how when Rui Costa won the world championships, this was treated as an accomplishment inferior to a portugese tennis player winning tennis's equivalent of the tour of egypt. No one cared about it.

I think a larger number of people would know who Rui costa is if he wins the olympics. I don't think Samu would have had anywhere near the same legacy if he won in Varese rather than Beijing.

And even within cycling winning the olympics means you get called the "olympic champion" every single time your name is called, for 4 whole years, not just 1

Somewhat Anglocentric view, isn't it? It's the 'national' sport of Flanders, a huge deal in Brittany, important in the Basque Country...
People care about the WCs there, and cycling is indisputably a major sport in those regions.

You're basically proving his argument by saying cycling is a big deal in some small regions across europe...