'Biggest anti-doping investigation in the history of sport'

[GazelleFormula]

I didn't read today's article on Gazzetta but had just a glimpse of it (it's not the one posted here).

If what they wrote is true, Scarponi and Menchov are in some serious $h!t.

What are the main issues as you understood them?

 

[Eshnar]

http://www.calciosport24.it/2012/10/19/il-sistema-ferrari-il-medico-e-scarponi-intercettati-nel-camper-una-sacca-e-vincevi/
there's the article in italian there.

A wiretap of late 2010 caught Ferrari telling Scarponi: "You could have won the Giro with one bag" It seems Scarponi was there for a performance test. The wiretap then proceeds with them discussing training procedure (without explicit mention of doping).
On the other hand, Menchov was caught in another wiretap telling Scimone that he wanted all his teammates to go to Ferrari.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The EPO Era? This is 2008-2011.

While most pros have been trying to paint a picture of a vastly changed sport, I thought Bertagnolli's affidavit showed Ferrari to have been just as busy as always in 2007-2010. If evidence of doping comes out of this, it would be confirmed.

doping yes, epo no

 

[rata de sentina]

The Italians have been pretty aggressive on this for while, wire taps, evidence from various search warrants, bank records, seized computers. This is going to make usada look like a tea party. They badly want to get Ferrari after he wriggled off the hook before.

 

[hrotha]

doping yes, epo no

Perhaps. I'm not sure what methods they're using right now, Ferrari said people didn't use EPO nowadays but we lack context to know exactly what he meant, since everywhere else he's talking about some types of EPO being easily detectable and pretty much professional suicide, which kinda implies other types aren't.

But regardless, Catwhoorg seemed to be talking about the "dirty" era more than about EPO specifically. That's what I was replying to.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The Italians have been pretty aggressive on this for while, wire taps, evidence from various search warrants, bank records, seized computers. This is going to make usada look like a tea party. They badly want to get Ferrari after he wriggled off the hook before.

italians are always aggressive in this but history teaches us that in the end they usually have nothing

 

[roundabout]

http://www.calciosport24.it/2012/10/19/il-sistema-ferrari-il-medico-e-scarponi-intercettati-nel-camper-una-sacca-e-vincevi/
there's the article in italian there.

A wiretap of late 2010 caught Ferrari telling Scarponi: "You could have won the Giro with one bag" It seems Scarponi was there for a performance test. The wiretap then proceeds with them discussing training procedure (without explicit mention of doping).
On the other hand, Menchov was caught in another wiretap telling Scimone that he wanted all his teammates to go to Ferrari.

I didn't quite understand the passage about a virus and altitude.

 

[GazelleFormula]

I didn't quite understand the passage about a virus and altitude.

I think it's about the planning of high altitude training in order to be able to explain changes in his blood values (caused by EPO-use).

 

[roundabout]

Ah. I see. Thank you.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Perhaps. I'm not sure what methods they're using right now, Ferrari said people didn't use EPO nowadays but we lack context to know exactly what he meant, since everywhere else he's talking about some types of EPO being easily detectable and pretty much professional suicide, which kinda implies other types aren't.

But regardless, Catwhoorg seemed to be talking about the "dirty" era more than about EPO specifically. That's what I was replying to.

Oxygen vector doping is so much of an advantage in cycling, that it does make everything else seem marginal. EPO and blood doping have simply got to go. Got to be seen to be gone, and have got to stay gone.

If 100 of the current pros must be suspended for a change to occur then thats what must happen. This rot has gone on for far too long. We are at a historic moment, either the fallout (from Lance, this investigation and others) will change cycling forever, or it will cease to exist in anything like its current form.

Ferrari and his ilk need some quality jail time. If tax evasion works, nail them on that.

 

[70kmph]

Mama mia !

Is there a list of Ferrari riders who tested +

 

[rata de sentina]

italians are always aggressive in this but history teaches us that in the end they usually have nothing

They got valverde in the end which is better than the Spanish

 

[BillytheKid]

Oxygen vector doping is so much of an advantage in cycling, that it does make everything else seem marginal. EPO and blood doping have simply got to go. Got to be seen to be gone, and have got to stay gone.

If 100 of the current pros must be suspended for a change to occur then thats what must happen. This rot has gone on for far too long. We are at a historic moment, either the fallout (from Lance, this investigation and others) will change cycling forever, or it will cease to exist in anything like its current form.

Ferrari and his ilk need some quality jail time. If tax evasion works, nail them on that.

I wonder if Lance's speach on Friday will be the beginning of admission or the same defiance. Armstrong telling all could be very revealing not only about the sport in Europe, but on American soil. I remember Armstrong as being the super star of the American program. He did not even have to compete in the 1992 Olympic Trials to make the team. I have little doubt about some of the very negative aspects of the person he became, but the mania and money around his super stardom was not the act of one man.

If it were up to me, I would not stop at the UCI.

 

[skidmark]

The fallout will be:

- nobody gets arrested; teams distance themselves from some named riders
- Lampre pulls out of the sport
- Acqua & Sapone pulls out - oh wait
- Liqui - oh wait
- Savio shrugs, Androni waits for some of the disgraced riders to be turfed by their teams so he can hire them
- Vino shrugs, Astana becomes the biggest team in the peloton when every other major sponsor drops out

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

They got valverde in the end which is better than the Spanish

I wasn't comparing to the spanish. they got valverde and that is all they ever got

 

[Fidolix]

No implications to UCI?
No money trail?

 

[Tinman]

No implications to UCI?
No money trail?

So La Gazetta reports the Ferrari material.

Interesting to also see La Gazetta report that UCI will respond to USADA on Monday. Why La Gazetta the origin of this press release?

 

[CicloPassione]

No implications to UCI?
No money trail?

Below, you can find a collection of press documents and informations from the swiss companies register:
http://imageshack.us/a/img88/593/resumee.png
http://www.pdf-archive.com/2012/10/...-dei-miti-1/la-galassia-svizzera-dei-miti.pdf

Do u want to know about Uci, doping, Ferrari, Marc Biver, Laurent Magne, IMG, Ian Todd ... Rocco Cattaneo, Rocco Taminelli ... Centre Mondial du Cyclisme (with Ian T Todd IMG in the board).
Why Rocco Taminelli belongs to Arbitrate and Discipline Committees of the Uci?
http://www.ciclopassione.com/t18-il-canto-del-cigno-dell-uci-di-mcquaid

It's time to free Uci and time to restore true cycling !!!
CYCLING FOREVER

 

[Benotti69]

I wasn't comparing to the spanish. they got valverde and that is all they ever got

They exposed Ferarri. They appear to be catching him for good this time.

That the Italian courts are a joke is not the fault of CONI.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Bump.

Anyone beginning to think Padua investigation has flopped?

Howman expected more riders an doctors to be named in December.

Instead, we see a trickle of 3 month bans for working with Ferrari, who is again insisting he didn't dope Armstrong.

 

[Cycle Chic]

The Ferrari. The doctor and boots intercepted in the camper: "A bag, and vincevi"

Took me a while to figure that one out...scarponi = hiking/ski boots.

 

[BillytheKid]

No implications to UCI?
No money trail?

Yes, um...so very clean. Spotless.

 

[luckyboy]

Does anyone know what is going on with this? I know the investigation in Mantova lurched back into life in April - http://road.cc/content/news/81353-i...ess-mantua-files-case-opens-days-giro-ditalia

 

[DirtyWorks]

Makes the USADA case look like small change?

This was one of the collateral Floyd Landis claims.

Let's hope Hein and Pat get dragged in. The coordination is amazing. Which teams are NOT on that list?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Below, you can find a collection of press documents and informations from the swiss companies register:
http://imageshack.us/a/img88/593/resumee.png
http://www.pdf-archive.com/2012/10/...-dei-miti-1/la-galassia-svizzera-dei-miti.pdf

Do u want to know about Uci, doping, Ferrari, Marc Biver, Laurent Magne, IMG, Ian Todd ... Rocco Cattaneo, Rocco Taminelli ... Centre Mondial du Cyclisme (with Ian T Todd IMG in the board).
Why Rocco Taminelli belongs to Arbitrate and Discipline Committees of the Uci?
http://www.ciclopassione.com/t18-il-canto-del-cigno-dell-uci-di-mcquaid

It's time to free Uci and time to restore true cycling !!!
CYCLING FOREVER

Welcome. You've done a great deal of work sorting out the business relationships. This is very good stuff.