Biggest Pro Cycling Myths

[Oldman]

What ? Carriers pushers, four hours ?

The point being is that no one loses half that water weight in a TT. If he lost that much in any stage he is an idiot and has no support. Lance has all the support and has never shown an aversion to proper water/nutrition.

 

[zealot66]

I boxed for 13 years. Its a whole different sport and the physical characteristics are different than cycling. I think some of the toughness that it takes to box has helped me with cycling. Mental toughness but the physicality is just different. try getting punched in the gut and head every lap in a criterium.

 

[Cobblestoned]

The point being is that no one loses half that water weight in a TT. If he lost that much in any stage he is an idiot and has no support. Lance has all the support and has never shown an aversion to proper water/nutrition.

The point is that Carmichael didn´t say that Lance lost that weight in ONE hour, as it was written by NashbarShorts.
That initiate post about this myth and some posts were built on wrong facts.

Is this clear now ?

 

[Oldman]

The point is that Carmichael didn´t say that Lance lost that weight in ONE hour, as it was written by NashbarShorts.
That initiate post about this myth and some posts were built on wrong facts.

Is this clear now ?

What I gathered from the nattering was that some explained his poor TT to dehydration and others to bad blood doping. No experienced pro could remotely attribute his poor performance to dehydration and Carmichael makes Lance sound like an idiot to suggest it.
If he's offering a smokescreen for a more likely scenario his logic is self-sustaining and not worth discussion. What do you believe?

 

[zastomito]

So, Lance was dehydrated and with dislocated hip but stil managed to finish 2nd in a TdF TT?
Imagine if everythig was in order, he would have smoked Jan, say 5 minutes. Talk about a myth...

 

[NashbarShorts]

The point is that Carmichael didn´t say that Lance lost that weight in ONE hour, as it was written by NashbarShorts.
That initiate post about this myth and some posts were built on wrong facts.

Is this clear now ?

So, Lance didn't lose that weight in "an hour". Instead, he woke up in the morning knowing it was going to be hot day and there was a very important TT that afternoon. He mulled around all day doing who knows what, but the one thing we know for sure is: somehow this mega-perfectionist Type A alpha wolf of a male FORGOT TO DRINK ALL DAY. He withered away, losing 7kilos off his already lithe (4% body fat) frame, and NOBODY noticed.

Ooookay. Now you gotta decide: is it a myth or is it total bullsh*t? I can't make that decision for you. Go for it!

 

[leftover pie]

Football -- American football. You can slam me for including a larger injury picture, but all the protective gear has insured that we have a greater injury rate, that includes potential brain damage. Not to mention a higher percentage of life-damaging doping than cycling (more steroids).

i would agree with that

some interesting reading:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4534-american-footballers-endure-car-crash-blows.html

http://www.nytimes.com/info/concussions-in-football/

edit: whoops, missed all the discussion on page 2, sorry if i repeated anything

 

[Oldman]

So, Lance didn't lose that weight in "an hour". Instead, he woke up in the morning knowing it was going to be hot day and there was a very important TT that afternoon. He mulled around all day doing who knows what, but the one thing we know for sure is: somehow this mega-perfectionist Type A alpha wolf of a male FORGOT TO DRINK ALL DAY. He withered away, losing 7kilos off his already lithe (4% body fat) frame, and NOBODY noticed.

Ooookay. Now you gotta decide: is it a myth or is it total bullsh*t? I can't make that decision for you. Go for it!

...I tried a slightly more tactful approach and got no answer. There isn't one. No pro is that stupid and no coach that unobservant.

 

[TexPat]

They didn't come out with that immediately because it's not smart to publicly give away a major weakness, and didn't do so later because it's Bruyneel and Armstrong....do you EVER expect them to be truthful?



It's a serious condition and recovery isn't instantaneous, quite far from it in fact? Mike Anderson said Lance had to be carried up the stairs after the prologue. That's how much trouble he was having.

You got a source for that bit of hearsay?

 

[NashbarShorts]

It's a serious condition... Mike Anderson said Lance had to be carried up the stairs after the prologue. That's how much trouble he was having.

Just for the record, is this the Mike Anderson who was Lance's personal assistant and then found steroids in Lance's medicine cabinet and then was fired w/o cause? That Mike Anderson??

If so, we can't believe anything he might have said about Lances' hip, b/c Lance has told the world that Mr. Anderson is completely full of sh*t and just a bitter ex-employee

 

[Cobblestoned]

...I tried a slightly more tactful approach and got no answer. There isn't one. No pro is that stupid and no coach that unobservant.

You STILL got no answer.
Have you ever noticed that my timeline is different from yours ?
Should I stay up for the whole night to wait for answers ?

Sorry that I first had to built/correct a basis to discuss this myth, because Mr.NashbarShorts wasn´t able to do it.
If you want to bash, then do it with style, please. Mr.NashbarShorts didn´t seem to able to discuss on correct facts, or his memory was totally wrong.
Its obvious too, that he is a bad loser and hurt right now.
No clarification and still wrong numbers right now.

My thoughts about this myth ?
6 kg is a big number, but within, let´s say 8-9 hours, why not ?
Perhaps some mistakes, too ? No one is free of that.
Why should Carmichel invent sucha story or double the kg ? There is no logical reason for that.
I think he tried to refill over the day as much as possible, but his body couldn´t hold the fluid, or lost more than he could refill. I don´t think Armstrong is that stupid and drank NOTHING for the whole day and the article doesn´t say that anywhere. There is not written that he drank nothing and it seems logical for me that someone who loses fluid, tries to regain that !?! Chris should have mentioned that for some people I think.
Perhaps Lance had some kind of diarrhea and stomach problems, too or just earlier in the race. No rarity in such a heat-period.

But lets see what Carmichael said later in 2009 (but I still can´t find the "original" from 2003):
To understand the potential impact of today’s weather, remember back to 2003. There was a heat wave in France that year that killed more than 10,000 people. During the Tour de France, riders were beside themselves trying to get enough fluids, and near the end of the second week, Lance Armstrong started having a dehydration crisis. No matter how much fluid he consumed, he kept losing weight. His body wasn’t processing the fluids properly anymore and he was growing more and more dehydrated with each passing day. The Stage 12 individual time trial turned into a disaster. Between the morning and the end of the stage Lance lost something like 6 kilograms of water weight, and he lost 1:36 to German rival Jan Ullrich as well. Lance retained the yellow jersey, but only by 43 seconds. The following day, Ullrich should have been able to take advantage of Lance’s weakened state and taken the yellow jersey. He distanced himself from Armstrong in the final two kilometers of a summit finish and with a time bonus brought the gap to the yellow jersey down to 15 seconds. But by the time the race reached Stage 15, the weather had broken and the temperatures had cooled. Despite a crash on the final climb, Lance reached the finish atop Luz Ardiden first and extended his lead back to 45 seconds. By the end of the 2003 Tour, Lance would win by 1:06 over Ullrich.

The heat in 2003 put Lance in a dehydration crisis, and a change in the weather helped him get back on terms with his fluid intake....

http://www.trainright.com/articles.asp?uid=4485

 

[Hugh Januss]

They didn't come out with that immediately because it's not smart to publicly give away a major weakness, and didn't do so later because it's Bruyneel and Armstrong....do you EVER expect them to be truthful?



It's a serious condition and recovery isn't instantaneous, quite far from it in fact? Mike Anderson said Lance had to be carried up the stairs after the prologue. That's how much trouble he was having.

Just for the record, is this the Mike Anderson who was Lance's personal assistant and then found steroids in Lance's medicine cabinet and then was fired w/o cause? That Mike Anderson??

If so, we can't believe anything he might have said about Lances' hip, b/c Lance has told the world that Mr. Anderson is completely full of sh*t and just a bitter ex-employee

You got a source for that bit of hearsay?

You mean that Mike Anderson? I believe he is hinting that he might never have said that.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You STILL got no answer.
Have you ever noticed that my timeline is different from yours ?
Should I stay up for the whole night to wait for answers ?

Sorry that I first had to built/correct a basis to discuss this myth, because Mr.NashbarShorts wasn´t able to do it.
If you want to bash, then do it with style, please. Mr.NashbarShorts didn´t seem to able to discuss on correct facts, or his memory was totally wrong.
Its obvious too, that he is a bad loser and hurt right now.
No clarification and still wrong numbers right now.

My thoughts about this myth ?
6 kg is a big number, but within, let´s say 8-9 hours, why not ?
Perhaps some mistakes, too ? No one is free of that.
Why should Carmichel invent sucha story or double the kg ? There is no logical reason for that.
I think he tried to refill over the day as much as possible, but his body couldn´t hold the fluid, or lost more than he could refill. I don´t think Armstrong is that stupid and drank NOTHING for the whole day and the article doesn´t say that anywhere. There is not written that he drank nothing and it seems logical for me that someone who loses fluid, tries to regain that !?! Chris should have mentioned that for some people I think.
Perhaps Lance had some kind of diarrhea and stomach problems, too or just earlier in the race. No rarity in such a heat-period.

But lets see what Carmichael said later in 2009 (but I still can´t find the "original" from 2003):
To understand the potential impact of today’s weather, remember back to 2003. There was a heat wave in France that year that killed more than 10,000 people. During the Tour de France, riders were beside themselves trying to get enough fluids, and near the end of the second week, Lance Armstrong started having a dehydration crisis. No matter how much fluid he consumed, he kept losing weight. His body wasn’t processing the fluids properly anymore and he was growing more and more dehydrated with each passing day. The Stage 12 individual time trial turned into a disaster. Between the morning and the end of the stage Lance lost something like 6 kilograms of water weight, and he lost 1:36 to German rival Jan Ullrich as well. Lance retained the yellow jersey, but only by 43 seconds. The following day, Ullrich should have been able to take advantage of Lance’s weakened state and taken the yellow jersey. He distanced himself from Armstrong in the final two kilometers of a summit finish and with a time bonus brought the gap to the yellow jersey down to 15 seconds. But by the time the race reached Stage 15, the weather had broken and the temperatures had cooled. Despite a crash on the final climb, Lance reached the finish atop Luz Ardiden first and extended his lead back to 45 seconds. By the end of the 2003 Tour, Lance would win by 1:06 over Ullrich.

The heat in 2003 put Lance in a dehydration crisis, and a change in the weather helped him get back on terms with his fluid intake....

http://www.trainright.com/articles.asp?uid=4485

I read the article, and then looked around the site for a few minutes. Funny I found no mention of the "extract of cortizone" shots that Comical gave Greg Strock and other US junior team members. The shots that made Strock so sick that Comical paid half a million bucks to settle out of court.
Is it possible that Chris is being loose with the truth in this case as well?

 

[Cobblestoned]

I read the article, and then looked around the site for a few minutes. Funny I found no mention of the "extract of cortizone" shots that Comical gave Greg Strock and other US junior team members. The shots that made Strock so sick that Comical paid half a million bucks to settle out of court.
Is it possible that Chris is being loose with the truth in this case as well?

Is this a justification for starting a topic about this myth with a big lie ?
Another try by another hater to distract from the topic and some lies ?

I think I made a basis for discussing this myth, and thats what I want to do right now. Discuss this myth, not discuss me or some other topics.

So just shut up and open another Armstrong/Carmichaelfred/Greg Stock thread.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Is this a justification for starting a topic about this myth with a big lie ?
Another try by another hater to distract from the topic and some lies ?

I think I made a basis for discussing this myth, and thats what I want to do right now. Discuss this myth, not discuss me or some other topics.

So just shut up and open another Armstrong/Carmichaelfred/Greg Stock thread.

I have shown that your source has been caught in lies before. That seems fairly on topic to me.
At any rate you seem prepared to continue arguing about nothing until Lance's other ball comes home. I don't have the time or the energy, so have a nice day.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I have shown that your source has been caught in lies before. That seems fairly on topic to me.
At any rate you seem prepared to continue arguing about nothing until Lance's other ball comes home. I don't have the time or the energy, so have a nice day.

I have the time and the energy. Have a nice day, too.
But for sure not enough time to bring on every single ignorant and desperate hater. The haters seem to swallow everything matching that comes their way, immediately.
Even lies are gladly accepted.
As I said earlier:
Even when you hate and bash - do it with style, please.

Lies and coffinlid-dancing on other peoples cost seems to be not the right way.

 

[Oldman]

I have the time and the energy. Have a nice day, too.
But for sure not enough time to bring on every single ignorant and desperate hater. The haters seem to swallow everything matching that comes their way, immediately.
Even lies are gladly accepted.
As I said earlier:
Even when you hate and bash - do it with style, please.

Lies and coffinlid-dancing on other peoples cost seems to be not the right way.

I expressed extreme skepticism at the alleged amount of fluid loss in a time trial. No desperation, lies or hate involved. As for the "coffinlid-dancing"-is that you, Mr. Sherwen?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

.......

It's a serious condition and recovery isn't instantaneous, quite far from it in fact? Mike Anderson said Lance had to be carried up the stairs after the prologue. That's how much trouble he was having.

You got a source for that bit of hearsay?

I was wondering on that myself.

'Issoisso' -it wasn't Mike Anderson, I believe you are thinking of Dan Coyle or Jeff Spenser, as the story was mentioned in Coyles book 'Lance Armstrongs War'.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I expressed extreme skepticism at the alleged amount of fluid loss in a time trial. No desperation, lies or hate involved. As for the "coffinlid-dancing"-is that you, Mr. Sherwen?

You should have expressed skepticism to Mr. NashbarShorts, as I did.
I hope you finally understand what we are talking about.
I also adressed one of these haters with the post you quoted.
If you feel adressed - thats not my problem.
I am not Sherwen, but have a name, too.
But again, we are losing the focus because some people can´t find another way out of this.
Some of these haters bonked heavily, again. Only a question of time, till my next points.
But these are nicest points in my cyclingnewsaccount.

No more discussion on the dehy-myth-topic ? Ok. It seems that we are finished with that one now.

 

[poupou]

My thoughts about this myth ?
6 kg is a big number, but within, let´s say 8-9 hours, why not ?
Perhaps some mistakes, too ? No one is free of that.
Why should Carmichel invent sucha story or double the kg ? There is no logical reason for that.
I think he tried to refill over the day as much as possible, but his body couldn´t hold the fluid, or lost more than he could refill. I don´t think Armstrong is that stupid and drank NOTHING for the whole day and the article doesn´t say that anywhere. There is not written that he drank nothing and it seems logical for me that someone who loses fluid, tries to regain that !?! Chris should have mentioned that for some people I think.
Perhaps Lance had some kind of diarrhea and stomach problems, too or just earlier in the race. No rarity in such a heat-period.

But lets see what Carmichael said later in 2009 (but I still can´t find the "original" from 2003):
To understand the potential impact of today’s weather, remember back to 2003. There was a heat wave in France that year that killed more than 10,000 people. During the Tour de France, riders were beside themselves trying to get enough fluids, and near the end of the second week, Lance Armstrong started having a dehydration crisis. No matter how much fluid he consumed, he kept losing weight. His body wasn’t processing the fluids properly anymore and he was growing more and more dehydrated with each passing day. The Stage 12 individual time trial turned into a disaster. Between the morning and the end of the stage Lance lost something like 6 kilograms of water weight, and he lost 1:36 to German rival Jan Ullrich as well. Lance retained the yellow jersey, but only by 43 seconds. The following day, Ullrich should have been able to take advantage of Lance’s weakened state and taken the yellow jersey. He distanced himself from Armstrong in the final two kilometers of a summit finish and with a time bonus brought the gap to the yellow jersey down to 15 seconds. But by the time the race reached Stage 15, the weather had broken and the temperatures had cooled. Despite a crash on the final climb, Lance reached the finish atop Luz Ardiden first and extended his lead back to 45 seconds. By the end of the 2003 Tour, Lance would win by 1:06 over Ullrich.

The heat in 2003 put Lance in a dehydration crisis, and a change in the weather helped him get back on terms with his fluid intake....

http://www.trainright.com/articles.asp?uid=4485

The heat wave was in August (the 2 first weeks), in July the average temperature were just a bit higher than normaly because of less bad weather.
So Lance dehydration was not caused by the heat wave.

 

[redtreviso]

The heat wave was in August (the 2 first weeks), in July the average temperature were just a bit higher than normaly because of less bad weather.
So Lance dehydration was not caused by the heat wave.

Ridiculous... Lance is from Austin...France's heatwave would be considered a cool front during most Texas summers.

 

[Cobblestoned]

The heat wave was in August (the 2 first weeks), in July the average temperature were just a bit higher than normaly because of less bad weather.
So Lance dehydration was not caused by the heat wave.

I was there and it was really, really hot.
So what are you trying to tell me ?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I was there and it was really, really hot.
So what are you trying to tell me ?

....And what are you trying to tell 'us'?

Yes, it was very hot. Lance lost 13lbs in just 8 hours.

But for a rider with such low weight to begin with how is it possible he was able to ride a bike - let alone compete.

 

[Cobblestoned]

....And what are you trying to tell 'us'?

Yes, it was very hot. Lance lost 13lbs in just 8 hours.

But for a rider with such low weight to begin with how is it possible he was able to ride a bike - let alone compete.

Lance is just great !

Ah, dottore here now, too. Nice to see, which people are focused on that myth now. You haters are really boring (me) and I would like to hear some other voices.
Come on guys. Now it wasn´t even hot and Lance should have pulled out ?
This is getting ridicoulus again.

I better start another myth now.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Lance is just great !

Ah, dottore here now, too. Nice to see, which people are focused on that myth now. You haters are really boring (me) and I would like to hear some other voices.
Come on guys. Now it wasn´t even hot and Lance should have pulled out ?
This is getting ridicoulus again.

I better start another myth now.

Read my post - I said it was hot - never said Lance should pull out.

Care to explain how a skinny weight obsessed rider can loose 13lbs in a few hours and perform?
If not - then it sounds like a myth.