- Mar 8, 2010
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Dr. Maserati
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Oldman said:
I think the point is that the "myth" wasn't a statement made saying he lost 15 pounds of water weight over the TT. It was that he lost 15 pounds of water weight from the start of the tour through the ITT.
If the Carmichael statement is what is being talked about as Lance's excuse... well there's a difference. It would seem possible over a race like the tour for a rider to lose 15 pounds if racing during a heat wave.
Cobblestoned said:
Cobble, I have to give you credit. You are a TRUE believer. Even in the face of logic and reason, you zip up your Postal kit and ride full-on into the headwinds of skepticism. Impressive.
However, in the quote above, Comical describes a dire physiological condition. It was so bad that Lance's kidneys perhaps had shut down. No MATTER HOW MUCH the poor man drank, he would pee it right out. (Oddly, I don't recall seeing TV coverage of Lance CONSTANTLY at the back, being assisted by his teammates in a "rolling nature break" for days on end... but I'm sure it was happening, b/c Comical tells us so.)
W/ such a rare condition, you'd think a trip to the ER would be necessary. But nope. According to "the coach", all it took was a change in the forecast. The mercury dropped the morning of Stage 15, and Lance's kidneys suddenly switched back on. The rest is history. Amazing. Thanks for pulling out that gem from the CTS archives
"If you can't add one plus one and understand what happened in cycling, ask Chris Comical" -- JanUllrich
- Mar 17, 2009
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Cobblestoned said:I hope that I understood all you meant because your English is not the easiest for me to understand.
I remember that day really well. Partyday.
First thing I remember well is that Armstrong praised Ullrich and also claimed that dehydration issue. Point. Ullrich undoubtable did a great ride and would perhaps have beaten Armstrong anyway - but not with such a big gap.
It was also was obvious that Armstrong wasn´t at 100% that day - but still got 2nd. He really fighted his a** off in these days and you could see that he didn´t ride "round".
I did never hear or read from that Carmichael 15lbs statement and I also couldn´t read it yesterday because you didn´t leave a link.
I only heard and remember something about dehydration at that day of the TT.
Just to make it clear:
I didn´t doubt that Carmichael said something about that day.
But now I had to search myself and read it, to judge this statement and have a look, if he really said, what you "quoted".
I hope that I found the original version of the "discourse". Search was hard.
To first thing:
Why not say something like Armstrong did after the stage:
"Jan rode a super time trial today. I had a bad day today, and the great heat was in Jan´s favors."
"I have suffered," "Before the last climb I had an incredible crisis. I did not have enough water there"
"Maybe it was too hot. I was never that thirsty in a time trial before."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second thing about the 15lbs story
which, to me, doesn´t look like an excuse
(in my opinion, there is only a need for that, when you were really really bad) and also doesn´t seem to me, like he has been quickly forced to shoot out an excuse and make Ullrich´s performance worse
but just a short discourse or thoughts about dehydration and Lance´s performance and I doubt that these Carmichaels discourses are unique and only appeared on that one day after this "bad" performance:
Carmichael original! statement:
An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing, bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of it fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his power was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and today are remarkable.
Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can continue racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel (bonking)
or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition characterized by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body through sweating.
Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means that even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort level was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his lost fluids, takes time.
Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more efficient at pulling fluids out of your body than it is replenishing them.
It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a lot of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids, electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning, his waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly normal, but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during Stage
13......
So, that sounds a little bit different than "15lbs in ONE HOUR", "9%".
But you were really close with 9 % - no doubt.
Last question(s) for my education of pound:
How much is 15 lbs in "kg" ?
Which lbs is meant ? I read that there are 2 ways of converting "pound" into "kg" and the other way around.
Is 15lbs = 6kg ?
Or is 15lbs = little bit more that 4 kg ?
Can Carmichel convert lbs into kg and the other way around with both kinds of "pound" ?
you must be the very Chris Carmichel to believe that load of sh!t
http://www.pointhealth.com.au/pdf/W...DEHYDRATION ON WORK AND SPORT PERFORMANCE.pdf
the "other" version of the LA dehydration was that the blood refills got delayed/off schedule due some logistic problems crossing the French borders....
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hfer07 said:you must be the very Chris Carmichel to believe that load of sh!t
http://www.pointhealth.com.au/pdf/W...DEHYDRATION ON WORK AND SPORT PERFORMANCE.pdf
I am sorry for the people who don´t believe in miracles.
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Dr. Maserati said:
Thats only for the public - like a sham marriage
look at his hand
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-17/photos/132624
he touches Andy again
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01163/tourso_contadorsch_1163363p.jpg
again
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...0/7/26/1280144332954/Schleck-Contador-006.jpg
he even cuddled Andy´s cheeks, but I can´t find a picture for that now
but hardest indication: he is using a waterpistol
http://img.skysports.com/10/07/800x600/stage-20--contador-water-pistol_2480807.jpg
Do you see the difference ?
http://members.ziggo.nl/ted/cycling/tom_boonen_kannibaal.jpg
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NashbarShorts said:Cobble, I have to give you credit. You are a TRUE believer. Even in the face of logic and reason, you zip up your Postal kit and ride full-on into the headwinds of skepticism. Impressive.
However, in the quote above, Comical describes a dire physiological condition. It was so bad that Lance's kidneys perhaps had shut down. No MATTER HOW MUCH the poor man drank, he would pee it right out. (Oddly, I don't recall seeing TV coverage of Lance CONSTANTLY at the back, being assisted by his teammates in a "rolling nature break" for days on end... but I'm sure it was happening, b/c Comical tells us so.)
W/ such a rare condition, you'd think a trip to the ER would be necessary. But nope. According to "the coach", all it took was a change in the forecast. The mercury dropped the morning of Stage 15, and Lance's kidneys suddenly switched back on. The rest is history. Amazing. Thanks for pulling out that gem from the CTS archives
"If you can't add one plus one and understand what happened in cycling, ask Chris Comical" -- JanUllrich
Your motto seems to be:
always step forward - never step back
And you try to confuse as much as possible. Very comical !
The only wind is the wind of hate, but I still do the same average speed.
Just a gentle breeze sometimes from all directions.
The hardest part of the ride is to select one out of all these USPS BIBs.
My favorite is the 2004 version, followed by the 2000 model.
- Jul 9, 2009
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Cobblestoned said:Thats only for the public - like a sham marriage
look at his hand
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-17/photos/132624
he touches Andy again
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01163/tourso_contadorsch_1163363p.jpg
again
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...0/7/26/1280144332954/Schleck-Contador-006.jpg
he even cuddled Andy´s cheeks, but I can´t find a picture for that now
but hardest indication: he is using a waterpistol
http://img.skysports.com/10/07/800x600/stage-20--contador-water-pistol_2480807.jpg
Do you see the difference ?
http://members.ziggo.nl/ted/cycling/tom_boonen_kannibaal.jpg
Wow, I wonder what PR firm Berto uses. They disabled your links even faster than Lance's boys could have done.
Dr. Maserati
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Cobblestoned said:Thats only for the public - like a sham marriage
look at his hand
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-17/photos/132624
he touches Andy again
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01163/tourso_contadorsch_1163363p.jpg
again
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...0/7/26/1280144332954/Schleck-Contador-006.jpg
he even cuddled Andy´s cheeks, but I can´t find a picture for that now
but hardest indication: he is using a waterpistol
http://img.skysports.com/10/07/800x600/stage-20--contador-water-pistol_2480807.jpg
Do you see the difference ?
http://members.ziggo.nl/ted/cycling/tom_boonen_kannibaal.jpg
Wow - lots of links to ...well actually not much (ok, nothing)
But.
..But, and this is important - its good that you are finaly starting to engage with others - this is good, ya.
So, maybe now that you have started to embrace the 'linking' idea - any chance of of you linking something to rebut the myth LA lost a 13lbs during a TT?
Or shall we just call it a myth?
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I don't believe the 6kg 8% body weight myth. Lance for whatever reason was out of from this year and his form in this TT indicated it. If he was dehydrated by 6kg there is no way he would have even been that close. I don't doubt it was a hot day or that dehydration was a factor, but 8% body weight? The only was this happened is with faulty scales or diahorrea. If it were diahorrea during a TT I don't think we'd be having this discussion.
Ed coyle...anybody know him? did a study and the result of which is on average an increase in heartrate of 7bpm for every % of bodyweight lost...8*7=56. Some further finding on dehydration published by R. Sleamaker
1-2% impaired thermoregulatory ability
3% reduced muscular endurance time
4-6% Reduced muscular strength, reduced endurance time, heat cramps
>6% Severe heat cramps, heat exhaustion, heatstroke, coma, death
It is a myth.
EDIT: a little more digging and I find the US military found a 3% decrease in bodyweight led to a 8% decrease in power. (there's more to it, but i think you'll find that it further debunks the myth)
Ed coyle...anybody know him? did a study and the result of which is on average an increase in heartrate of 7bpm for every % of bodyweight lost...8*7=56. Some further finding on dehydration published by R. Sleamaker
1-2% impaired thermoregulatory ability
3% reduced muscular endurance time
4-6% Reduced muscular strength, reduced endurance time, heat cramps
>6% Severe heat cramps, heat exhaustion, heatstroke, coma, death
It is a myth.
EDIT: a little more digging and I find the US military found a 3% decrease in bodyweight led to a 8% decrease in power. (there's more to it, but i think you'll find that it further debunks the myth)
- Jul 4, 2009
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Cobblestoned said:
I will put it out the there as an English lesson then.
Did you not state this:
Cobblestoned said:
When you meant this:
Myth:
Alberto Contador is supposed to be heterosexual.
Any girls to disprove that myth ?
However, I will say I really don't care about whom a rider chooses to sleep with. It does not change my opinion of the rider and the work he does on the road. So I would have say that we should just let this myth die on the thread.
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Dr. Maserati said:
You seem to have a funny side too. Slowly melting.
No chance. Why should I do this ?
It should have been Mr.Nashbarshorts job to prove his "ONE HOUR" myth.
I proved that Mr.Nashbarshorts version of the myth was wrong (told). This was my main point and you can´t take that away.
The haters who jumped on his train immediately didn´t enjoy that one. I know.
Now all the hyenas surround me again and start some philosophical and medical attemps.
You really make it more complicated than necessary.
I am not a doctor who wrote a doctoral thesis about dehydration. Just brought some thoughts about that.
If there are any doctors or profs who know everything about dehydration let them discuss - I will follow that with interest.
But not on the basis of "IN ONE HOUR". I hope my point is finally clear for everyone now.
End of the story like always - the haterrule:
Haters prove nothing and just hate and bla bla comical bla wah liar wah no heatwave bla bla wah.
When someone doesn´t answer every single of their 1000 questions immediately and doesn´t prove (disprove) every single word (accusation) with thousands of links > haters have won (in their eyes)
Their virtual win is only because of their mass, majority or timeline, not because of their correct facts or proves.
Endless game - boring game.
Insert coin.
Gute Nacht !
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L29205 said:
Sorry. This seems to be too complicated or philosophical for me right now, because its really late.
But I saw that some people understood what i (actually) meant.
So, I won´t think about your question any further. Better for my sleep.
When I read the book blah, blah, blah I believed it .... the whole look how chalked white ringed my lips were and thought this was some historic thing. Then you watch other riders in other years and se that it is while not common not exactly unprecedented, so as per usual I think it is his standard spin of not being able to man up and just say I got beat fair and square, just liek when Botero won the TT the year before and not Lance didn't get beat they picked the wrong gear, no Lance looked "mortal" on the Alpe d'Huez in '03 b/c he rode the whole Galibier with the brake rubbing etc. etc. Crap like this that makes him such a dislikeable person.
- Jul 10, 2010
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velosopher54 said:We're talking the hardest sport, not the most injurious. I mean, American footballers play for only 12 minutes per game with lots of rests, including a halftime. Imagine stopping to take breaks during a Tour stage, and stopping halfway through for an extended break.
I have to admit - I contributed to the degradation of the thread. My apologies for that. A side trip to - - - nowhere?
Which is more painful, a double century, or reading Sartre?
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